Price on Access application. Your suggestions ???

[Eugene]

How to make the correct evaluation of the price on an Access
application?
The company deals with Mail business and the short review of the job
was as follows:

1.Business review and project examination. Project requirements
coordination.
2.Database design. Creation of the tables (total: 28) and
relationships (total: 14).
3.Import old data and data normalization for the new system.
4.Finding Address by zip code Table/Form development.
5.Forms and sub-forms design (total: 60). Toolsbars turning.
Form development and implementation. Included:
A.Automation of packages and containers movement:
·Containers and packages main and detailed forms
·Finding systems for packages, orders, customers, agents and
distributors
·Orders, Custom declarations with the options (sub-forms)
B.Customer and Recipient registration
C.Multilevel Invoice system with the customer case, options
(sustention, collection) and detailed information.
D. Forms of viewing, opening and closing containers
E. Food packages movement as a separate king of business.
F. Money Orders system
G. Switch Boards Forms
H. Price Form
I. Labels print forms.
J. Initialization forms (constants)
6. Queries development (Total: 55)
7. Reports development (Total 26)
8. Testing and deploying application
9. Security turning, creating new user accounts/user roles
10. Installation application, network access turning

Thank you for your evaluation and appriciate for your answer.
Eugene

 

[John Vinson]

How to make the correct evaluation of the price on an Access
application?

By determining what price the potential customers will pay, given the
nature of their business, the competition, and the economy. There is
no rule of thumb, and the specifications of the program have much less
to do with the price than you might think!

This is one of the hardest parts of marketing a computer application.
Do you go for a gold-plated app selling for $1000 and hope to get ten
customers? Or a bare-bones one selling for $10 and sell it to a
thousand? Bear in mind... you'll get a LOT more support calls in the
latter case, even if the total income is the same!

 

[Van T. Dinh]

Unfortunately, there is no hard and fast rules. The price depends on:

1. How desparate you want the work.
2. How much is acceptable to you and to the client.

One thing for sure: If the client wants a fixed price, make sure you get a
Spec from them detailing *exactly* what they need. The clients' needs
*always* grow from what you think they need so you have to make sure you
don't work for nothing just to provide features / facilities not included in
your original quote (and the client thinks that these are included).

My basic rule: get a detailed Spec, work out approx. how many hours you
need, *double* it, and then apply your hourly rate. If required (depending
on 1 and 2 above), apply some sort of discount.

HTH
Van T. Dinh
MVP (Access)

 

[Larry Linson]

There is absolutely not any way that developer could, or would try to,
accurately (and perhaps even not-so-accurately) estimate a project from an
outline or list such as that given by the original poster.

One thing for sure: If the client wants
a fixed price, make sure you get a
Spec from them detailing *exactly*
what they need.

I have an even better suggestion: if they insist on a fixed price, tell them
to get it elsewhere -- explain that you give "rough planning estimates" but
work only on a time and materials basis. The reason I say that is that it is
virtually impossible to write a contract and a specification so tight that
there are no loopholes for a clever client with a good lawyer to use in
forcing you into the next thing to involuntary servitude. In a good many
years in the corporate world, I saw this happen to some exceptionally large
and exceptionally well-regarded companies both on the vendor and client
sides. Example, vendor spends $250,000 fulfilling a $25,000 fixed price
contract because it didn't contain enforceable completion criteria defining
when the work was done.

The clients' needs *always* grow from
what you think they need so you have
to make sure you don't work for nothing
just to provide features / facilities not inclu
-ded in your original quote (and the client
thinks that these are included).

Even on a time and materials basis, you very likely should write up a
"Statement of Work" to be signed by both you and the client, detailing the
specific items that you are going to do and some hour estimates (or, better,
a level of hours for each item that, when reached will trigger a notice from
you to the client that more hours are going to be expended than stated in
the SOW). Then, include a Change Control Procedure of some sort, to document
and require approval from all parties for any changes to the SOW. That way,
you will have documentation of the changes when the inevitable
finger-pointing starts.

My basic rule: get a detailed Spec, work
out approx. how many hours you need,
*double* it, and then apply your hourly rate.
If required (depending on 1 and 2 above),
apply some sort of discount.

I've been in the computer business, creating software, since 1958, and one
thing I've learned is that you can more or less reasonably estimate the
amount of time you are going to spend on the User Requirements documentation
simply by limiting the number of pages to be included, if you have good
experience on documenting requirements for similar types of work. But, you
must have approved requirements before you have the remotest chance of
estimating the time that will be required to do the design. You must have an
approved design before you have the remotest chance of accurately estimating
actual development and testing. And you must have a developed, tested, and
approved application before you have the remotest chance of accurately
estimating implementation/installation/deployment in the production
environment.

That precludes, absolutely precludes, in my view, the possibility of giving
the entire estimate up front on an application, much less the possibility of
an estimate good enough to bet your financial future on "fixed pricing".

And, although I can state these generalities, and have worked under a number
of different contracts, another thing that I can state is that you need an
attorney, well-versed in both contracts and in intellectual property law, to
advise you on your contracts and your specification.

Obviously, you cannot do this if you are creating a product to be
sold/licensed to multiple clients, but you can do the work before you set
final pricing, so that you know how much you have in it. That way the only
wild guess will be over how many clients the costs and profit must be spread
to determine the price to charge for a single copy.

That said, I sometime fixed-price certain work... for example, teaching a
three-day class on "xxxx" (that's not development work; the definition
limits the time/effort). And, don't forget that if you have to develop the
course you are teaching, that development is several tens of times as much
as the classroom hours being developed.

Larry Linson

 

[Van T. Dinh]

There is absolutely not any way that developer could, or would try to,
accurately (and perhaps even not-so-accurately) estimate a project from an
outline or list such as that given by the original poster.

Agreed. That's why I basically ignored the O.P. list. Even for importing
(and cleaning) old data, I found in some cases, it took me only a few hours
while in the others, it took a fairly reasonable effort (days) to get the
old data into the new structure.

I have an even better suggestion: if they insist on a fixed price, tell them
to get it elsewhere -- explain that you give "rough planning estimates" but
work only on a time and materials basis.

I occasionally explain my method of working out fixed price with a factor
2.5 or 3 just to steer them to back to time & material.

Even on a time and materials basis, you very likely should write up a
"Statement of Work" to be signed by both you and the client, detailing the
specific items that you are going to do and some hour estimates (or, better,
a level of hours for each item that, when reached will trigger a notice from
you to the client that more hours are going to be expended than stated in
the SOW). Then, include a Change Control Procedure of some sort, to document
and require approval from all parties for any changes to the SOW. That way,
you will have documentation of the changes when the inevitable
finger-pointing starts.

Certainly a good idea to have the SOW.

I've been in the computer business, creating software, since 1958, and one
thing I've learned is that you can more or less reasonably estimate the
amount of time you are going to spend on the User Requirements documentation
simply by limiting the number of pages to be included, if you have good
experience on documenting requirements for similar types of work. But, you
must have approved requirements before you have the remotest chance of
estimating the time that will be required to do the design. You must have an
approved design before you have the remotest chance of accurately estimating
actual development and testing. And you must have a developed, tested, and
approved application before you have the remotest chance of accurately
estimating implementation/installation/deployment in the production
environment.

That's why I hedge my bet with the doubling of estimated hours.

That precludes, absolutely precludes, in my view, the possibility of giving
the entire estimate up front on an application, much less the possibility of
an estimate good enough to bet your financial future on "fixed pricing".

And, although I can state these generalities, and have worked under a number
of different contracts, another thing that I can state is that you need an
attorney, well-versed in both contracts and in intellectual property law, to
advise you on your contracts and your specification.

Obviously, you cannot do this if you are creating a product to be
sold/licensed to multiple clients, but you can do the work before you set
final pricing, so that you know how much you have in it. That way the only
wild guess will be over how many clients the costs and profit must be spread
to determine the price to charge for a single copy.

I supposed I have been lucky so far in convincing the clients to go for time
& material arrangement. Only one did I work for a contract specifying 2
weeks duration. The required work was completed within 4 days and I spent
the rest of the time doing small improvements for the client.

Cheers
Van