power surges

  • Thread starter Thread starter freda
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freda

This past weekend I had several power surges and now in my
tax programs the fonts have been changed to symbols. What
can I do to correct this problem.
 
Greetings --

Be very thankful that nothing more important was
lost/corrupted/damaged, get a good quality surge protector and install
it between the PC and the mains, and reinstall the affected software.

Bruce Chambers
--
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having both at once. -- RAH
 
Go back and undo the power surges in the exact same order in which they
happened. That'll correct your immediate problem.

Purchase Uninterruptable Power Supplies for each of your computers and this
won't ever happen again.

Proper backup and UPSes. The keys to data integrity.
 
Some basic information first required. For example, was it
a power surge or something as completely different as 'night
and day' - a blackout? Surges are rare events that occur
typically once every eight years.

What kind of filesystem is used on your hard drive? If
using Windows 9x or FATxx filesystem, then blackouts can
delete files off your hard drive. Just another in a long list
of problems solved by Windows NT operating systems (such as
XP) that use NTFS type filesystems.
 
w_tom said:
Some basic information first required. For example, was it
a power surge or something as completely different as 'night
and day' - a blackout? Surges are rare events that occur
typically once every eight years.

If you're thinking of power surges caused by sunspot peak activity they
average around every 10.8 years. There are a lot of other causes of
power surges.
What kind of filesystem is used on your hard drive? If
using Windows 9x or FATxx filesystem, then blackouts can
delete files off your hard drive. Just another in a long list
of problems solved by Windows NT operating systems (such as
XP) that use NTFS type filesystems.

A power failure can cause data corruption of any files that are open
regarless of file system type. NTFS has better file management than FAT
systems so it happens less frequently with NTFS, but it does indeed happen.

-Steve
 
Sunspot activity creates no destructive surges to building
appliances. Electromagnetic fields that exist due to Coronal
Mass Ejections (CME) may affect long distance wires - hundreds
of miles - utility power transmission and communication lines.
This would appear as a blackout to those appliances. CME is
completely irrelevant to building surges - that occur
typically once every eight years.

If Freda had destructive power surges, then she has
hardware damage. So again, the relevant question. Was it a
surge or a blackout? If it was a blackout, then surge
protector recommendation does absolutely nothing.

In the meantime, change the font for that document from
Symbol to something more readable such as Times Roman. If
using the FAT filesystem, then convert to NTFS.
 
w_tom said:
Sunspot activity creates no destructive surges to building
appliances. Electromagnetic fields that exist due to Coronal
Mass Ejections (CME) may affect long distance wires - hundreds
of miles - utility power transmission and communication lines.
This would appear as a blackout to those appliances. CME is
completely irrelevant to building surges - that occur
typically once every eight years.

Where does this information regarding "building surges" come from? Never
heard of it before. What causes it? Why every 8 years?

We frequently experience power fluctuations, both drops and surges, from
the power companies in this region. We definitely need surge protection
and I would rather assume others do as well, than assume the oposite to
be true.
If Freda had destructive power surges, then she has
hardware damage.

Not necessarily. If she had a surge protector and it did its job then it
took the bullet, not her PC.

So again, the relevant question. Was it a
surge or a blackout? If it was a blackout, then surge
protector recommendation does absolutely nothing.

Power losses are often accompanied by spikes and surges when power is
restored. In the case of storm damage to transmision lines power often
bounces down and up in rapid succession before the blackout. Surge
suppression is definitely recommended. Power companies themselves
reccomend them for all electronic devices.

Steve
 
Not in rural USA where I live pal. Surges and sags happen several times a
day, every day. I'm looking at a strip chart from a recorder that has been
at a client's site for the past 48 hours. I see valleys as low as 93.1 volts
and peaks as high as 141 volts. At least it remains constant at 59.9 cycles
per second.

Where did you get information that surges happen only once in eight years?
 
How often does your 120 VAC exceed 300 volts? Every day?
Surge protector ignores anything less. Minor voltage
variations (see next paragraph for numbers) are less than what
appliances must withstand - as defined by industry standards.
Appliances already contain internal protection sufficient for
utility voltage variations. Internal protection that assumes
a destructive transient (typically once every eight years)
will be earthed before entering the building.

View numbers provided by Colon Terminus. 141 volts is
ignored by plug-in protectors. Let-through voltage that is
printed on every box! 300+ volts. Furthermore, 120 volt
appliances must work uninterrupted even when AC voltage drops
below 100 volts. Intel only specs what was defacto
requirement even 30 years ago. With maximum load of
peripherals, a 120 volt ATX power supply must work just fine
even when AC mains are only at 90 VAC. Colon Terminus
provides numbers that says appliance works uninterrupted - and
no surge exists. I love numbers because junk science reasoning
dies when numbers are provided. Colon Terminus demonstrates
voltage variations that are within appliance operation limits.

If suffering daily 'surges', then one is constantly
replacing furnace controls, clock radio, electronic timer
switch, motion detecting lights, microwave oven, etc. What
protects these appliances? Nothing. Therefore appliances are
damaged weekly? Of course not. Internal protection is
standard in appliances.

Also based only upon urban myths and junk science reasoning
is the idea that "... a surge protector ... did its job then
it took the bullet". Please first learn what a surge
protector does. It does not stop, block, or absorb surges -
as such speculation would have us believe. Effective
protector does not "take a bullet". Even manufacturer
datasheets don't make that claim. A protector that "takes a
bullet" was grossly undersized and operates in violation of
MOV manufacturer specifications - does not protect.

An incoming surge confronts computer and surge protector
simultaneously. That's right. Surge does not confront
protector first. A surge too small to damage computer
destroys the grossly undersized protector. What kind of
protection is that? Undersized, overpriced, and
ineffective. Surge protectors are effective when they are
not destroyed - properly designed and installed - when they
remain functional for the next transient.

After protector explodes, a human uses junk science
reasoning. He assumes protector protected his computer only
because it exploded. He recommends more of the grossly
undersized and overpriced protectors. IOW to increase sales
and to get junk scientists to promote their protector ---
manufacturer undersizes it. In the meantime, effective 'whole
house' protector do provide protection, are not destroyed, and
cost many times less money.

Effective protector earths the surge AND remains functional
for a next transient. A fully functional protector does its
job without human even knowing the surge existed.

Like the erroneous plug-in protector recommendation, we now
have more wild speculation - that "Power losses are often
accompanied by spikes and surges when power is restored."
Violation of reality. During reality, power restoration is
slow because virtually everything - all connected appliances -
are consuming maximum current. Again, the utility sees a
major surge in current (load) demand while consumer's
appliances only see a gentle voltage increase. That massive
load would literally quash any surge or spike. Reality: no
destructive surge or spike typically during power
restoration. But then if surge or spike existed, then a
'whole house' protector would make it irrelevant.

Surge protection is recommended by utilities and other
standards such as the CBEMA. Protection therefore is inside
the appliance. Protection that is dependent on a 'whole
house' protector so that internal protection is not
overwhelmed. 'Whole house' protector that costs about $1 per
protected appliance verses the $15 or $50 per appliance for
ineffective and overhyped plug-in protectors. Even costs say
the plug-in protector is ineffective.

Again, if freda suffered a surge, then she suffered hardware
damage; not corrupted or lost data.

BTW, the 'whole house' protector is a secondary protector.
Primary protection is provided by utility. Protection that
may be compromised. Pictures tell a disturbing story. A
story that one who recommends surge protectors (responsibly)
should understand:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

But again, a protector is only as effective as its earth
ground. Just another engineering fact that says plug-in
protectors are ineffective.
 
You didn't answer my questions:
Where does this information regarding "building surges" come from? Never
heard of it before. What causes it? Why every 8 years?

Steve
 
Numbers are found in many old publications that discuss
transient protection. Effective protection was well defined
and proven long before WWII. So many old journals and books I
will not plow through to cite a specific source. But one
transient every 8 years is a typical number. Furthermore,
frequency of strikes is listed at about 2 per sq km per year.
That number can be found on some internet sites. That number
tends to be less in Oregon (1) and greater in central FL (6).
However that number also varies significantly even locally due
to environmental conditions.

Going back to the original point - surges did not damage
those files and are not a daily occurrence as made obvious by
the number of destroyed appliances not replaced daily. Even
unacceptably high numbers provided by Colon Terminus are so
low as to not damage appliances and to be ignored even by a
plug-in protector. Destructive transients are rare events,
but are so inexpensively and easily eliminated at service
entrance (the 'whole house' protector) as to be an
unacceptable event.

No electronics need be damaged by surges. No files need be
corrupted by surges. An effective protector is defined by its
earth ground. No earth ground means no effective protection.
Plug-in protectors are overpriced and ineffective which is why
their manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing - so
as to not harm the sale.

Plug-in protector would do nothing effective for freda's
original problem. And again, freda is encouraged to verify
her file system is NTFS - not FATxx.
 
If thats the case,
Surge protectors companies claim if any damage, they will replace your
complete system- unless they are lying.
 
All seemingly good info (although I wish you'd offer some links to
support your assertation about the 8 year thing), and of course proper
grounding is important. There is no argument there.

I personally have seen situations (not from this 8 year phenomena you
describe) where a serious electical condition blew out surge protectors
and left electronic equiment unscathed. The MOVs were literally burned
through.

As I said before, NTFS is definitely more robust that FATxx but I have
personally seen data corruption caused on both file systems due to power
failure. Certainly less frequent with NTFS, but it has still occured.

Steve
 

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