Power Supply Question

[ticars]

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to power supplies, but it maybe time
to get up to speed. I had a system AMD Athlon 2600 system that has
been running fine for some time, but I recently decided to upgrade it
by adding a raid card (and a second hard drive). After resetting up
the machine, I noticed that the 12V line on the power supply was having
dropping below 11V. Sometimes the the +-10% alarm for this went off.
I also experienced some system freezing. Also I tapped the power supply
and my system just shut down. Using my deductive abilities, I'm
assuming that my PSU just can't keep up with the system.

My current power supply is a Mustang rated at 350 watts (I've read on
these boards that Mustangs are junk). My question is if a quality 350
Watt power supply can keep up with my system. I've already ordered a
sparkle 350 Watt supply from new egg (should have asked before
ordering, I ordered it before noticing my old one was 350). Will a
Sparkle be considerably better than a Mustang?

My current system as the following components:

Athlon 2600+
Radeon 9200SE (I think)
2-120 gig hard drives
1-raid controller
1-DVD burner
512 mb memory (probably going to add another 512)

In addition, I have an old 8 gig hard drive that I want to add just to
perform weekly backups because I nervous about having RAID 0 without
backups of my personal files.


Am I screwed?

 

[Matt]

My question is if a quality 350
Watt power supply can keep up with my system.

For power requirements, see the builders' guide at:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/SellAMDProducts/0,,30_177_4458_3505^869^4348^1065,00.html

 

[Michael Hawes]

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to power supplies, but it maybe time
to get up to speed. I had a system AMD Athlon 2600 system that has
been running fine for some time, but I recently decided to upgrade it
by adding a raid card (and a second hard drive). After resetting up
the machine, I noticed that the 12V line on the power supply was having
dropping below 11V. Sometimes the the +-10% alarm for this went off.
I also experienced some system freezing. Also I tapped the power supply
and my system just shut down. Using my deductive abilities, I'm
assuming that my PSU just can't keep up with the system.

My current power supply is a Mustang rated at 350 watts (I've read on
these boards that Mustangs are junk). My question is if a quality 350
Watt power supply can keep up with my system. I've already ordered a
sparkle 350 Watt supply from new egg (should have asked before
ordering, I ordered it before noticing my old one was 350). Will a
Sparkle be considerably better than a Mustang?

My current system as the following components:

Athlon 2600+
Radeon 9200SE (I think)
2-120 gig hard drives
1-raid controller
1-DVD burner
512 mb memory (probably going to add another 512)

In addition, I have an old 8 gig hard drive that I want to add just to
perform weekly backups because I nervous about having RAID 0 without
backups of my personal files.


Am I screwed?

What you have stated is about 250W, so you should be OK.

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/ is a useful link.

 

[w_tom]

First it is difficult to predict what is and is not
sufficient power because many power supplies misrepresent
their power output. This occurs most often when the
manufacturer does not provide a long list of written specs.
Furthermore those power estimator must make numerous and wide
ranging assumptions. To accurately estimate power, power
consumption must be calculated to each separate voltage. Then
the output power for each voltage is consulted - from that
spec sheet the manufacturer may not have supplied. For
example, is that 350 watt power supply really providing up to
350 watts? How would you know?

From your voltage readings, the power supply is probably
insufficient - undersized. BTW, measuring from motherboard
voltage monitor is not sufficient until you have calibrated
that monitor with a 3.5 digit multimeter.

Two benchmarks to identify minimally acceptable power
supplies: 1) it provides a long list of numeric
specifications that claim (in writing) to contain critical
functions. The naive say the power supply works now;
therefore it must have all functions. False. This leads to a
second point. 2) To contain critical functions, a power
supply must sell for at least $60 retail. How do they sell
power supplies at $25 and $40? Forget to include those
critical functions. One symptom of a supply missing critical
functions? They also forget to provide that long list of
numerical specs.

Start you supply analysis with those first two necessary
conditions. Point 1) and 2) do not define a supply as
sufficient. But they do eliminate many inferior 'dumped into
N America' power supplies. Because so many computer
assemblers don't even know how electricity works, then it is
very profitable to dump inferior supplies into N America.
Some are so naive as to even assume those power supply
estimators provide useful information. 350 watts is usually
more than enough for computer systems. Most peripherals draw
little power. But then you first must learn what each
peripheral manufacturer states (on his spec sheets) is maximum
power that his peripheral consumes - and for each voltage.

 

[o-chan]

Will a

Sparkle be considerably better than a Mustang?

It's hard to say. It's the Wild West when it comes to PSU specs. A
true 350 W PSU should be able to power most current systems unless you
have RAID 5 or a really high end video card or something, but many can't
deliver 350 W when the temp goes up, or can't sustain that rating for
more than a few minutes.

I don't know anything about Sparkle PSUs. You could always try it out,
test it for a couple weeks, and if you don't get the performance you
want, return it.

My current system as the following components:

Athlon 2600+
Radeon 9200SE (I think)
2-120 gig hard drives
1-raid controller
1-DVD burner
512 mb memory (probably going to add another 512)

In addition, I have an old 8 gig hard drive that I want to add just to
perform weekly backups because I nervous about having RAID 0 without
backups of my personal files.

Sounds fine.

Am I screwed?

Nah, but don't hesitate to thoroughly test your system when you get the
new PSU, WITH the 8 GB drive in place.

 

[ticars]

Cool, thanks for all the responses. One additional question. Is what
I'm seeing a sign of an inadequate power supply? That is system
suddenly shuts down or locks up. I know the voltage drop is, but I was
just curious if the other things I'm seeing are possibly caused by the
supply.

 

[w_tom]

Power supply internally monitors critical voltages. If any
one voltage drops, then power supply cuts off all other
voltages and drops a Power Good signal to power supply
controller. Loss of Power Good signal executes a software
routine. How system responds to a loss of Power Good is a
function defined by computer manufacturer's firmware.

What you are seeing could be too much load causing one
voltage to drop. Or it could be an indication of a failing
supply - ie excessive ripple voltage (meaning a marginal
supply today will be a totally failed supply maybe months
later). Again, is 350 watts supply sufficient? First provide
power consumption (ie for that RAID) of each voltage. Then
get the power output of each voltage that the supply is
suppose to provide. Only then can we begin an analysis: is
supply too small or is supply failing?

 

[Guest]

I had a system AMD Athlon 2600 system that has been
running fine for some time, but I recently decided to
upgrade it by adding a raid card (and a second hard
drive). After resetting up the machine, I noticed that
the 12V line on the power supply was having dropping
below 11V. Sometimes the the +-10% alarm for this
went off. I also experienced some system freezing. Also
I tapped the power supply and my system just shut down.
Using my deductive abilities, I'm assuming that my PSU
just can't keep up with the system.

My current power supply is a Mustang rated at 350 watts
(I've read on these boards that Mustangs are junk).
My question is if a quality 350 Watt power supply can
keep up with my system. I've already ordered a
sparkle 350 Watt supply from new egg

Athlon 2600+
Radeon 9200SE (I think)
2-120 gig hard drives

The computer shutting down when you tap on the power supply indicates
the presense of a short (possibly between the case and the bottom of
the circuit board) or broken connection inside it. Are you sure that
tapping on it makes it turn off?

Voltage readings from the computer should never be trusted without
verification from a digital voltage meter. Even the cheapest digital
meter is more than accurate enough for this.

A 350W Sparkle can run almost anything short of a 3.2 GHz CPU and
NVidia 6800 video card, while a 350W Mustang (by Deer) is more like a
250W Sparkle, at best.

 

[Xiccarph]

With pwr supplies, a good rule is you get what you pay for. Look for
proper specs as mentioned already; those who make top quality will most
always put it in print for all to see. A $25 or 35 supply isnt
something i would ever put into my case. Make sure the supply has true
full-wave rectification with solid filtering; this means min $60-70 for
300 range wattage, $80-120+ for the 400-500 wattage ranges. On a system
I plan to expand or even may think to expand, I go for 400+ watt range;
buy one and don't have to worry later.

 

[Papa]

Antec and Allied are 2 good mid-priced brands. With the current crop of PCs
I always use 400 Watt power supplies. Good luck.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

With pwr supplies, a good rule is you get what you pay for.
Look for proper specs as mentioned already; those who make
top quality will most always put it in print for all to see.

But so do many companies that make junk.
So many higher-priced PSUs are bad that I'd rather look at the
technically qualified review sites, such as www.xbitlabs.com,
www.silentpcreview.com, www.tomshardware.com, and
www.trustedreviews.com. Almost all other sites test only to 200-350W,
even with PSUs rated for 500W+.

A $25 or 35 supply isnt something i would ever put into my
case. Make sure the supply has true full-wave rectification
with solid filtering; this means min $60-70 for 300 range
wattage, $80-120+ for the 400-500 wattage ranges.

If a person needs no more than $350W, it's not difficult to find a
top-quality PSU at a low price, like these ($19 for 300W, $29 for
350W):

www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=1

I've never paid more than $25 in the past 2-3 years but always got top
quality, and the $25 one was a 300W Antec with case that's since been
offered for as little as $5, after rebate. Actually I did get one junk
PSU, a Soyo/MaxPower/Key Mouse, but it was free after rebate, included
a case, and was able to put out its full rated 300W/190W combined power
for at least ten minutes (my load resistance gets too hot after that).

Don't all ATX PSUs use full wave rectification, on both the high and
low voltage sides, and does it really matter for the low voltage side,
which operates at high frequency, 40KHz-100KHz?

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Antec and Allied are 2 good mid-priced brands.

Antec, yes, but Allied is from Deer, and Deer = junk, although Allied
is Deer's least-junky brand. I'd never accept any of Deer's brands,
which include Hyena, Eagle, Foxlink, Foxconn, Austin, Codegen, Logic,
L&C, Duro, PowerUp, Hercules.

 

[Papa]

Antec, yes, but Allied is from Deer, and Deer = junk, although Allied
is Deer's least-junky brand. I'd never accept any of Deer's brands,
which include Hyena, Eagle, Foxlink, Foxconn, Austin, Codegen, Logic,
L&C, Duro, PowerUp, Hercules.

Could be. I've never had any problems with either the Antec label or the
Allied label, but I'll admit that the overwhelming majority of the ones I
have installed were Antecs.