Power Supply and Processor Exhaust Fan

S

Shawn

Hi

I did end just replacing both fans. Regarding the power supply fan, I just
replaced the entire power supply.

I bought the processor exhaust fan on line at ebay, because Dell didn't have
any in stock. The fan was noisy,
so I took your advise and lubricated it with spray silicone with teflon.
That quieted it quite a bit, but now
I hear it pulsating....turning on and off. Is that normal? Do they only turn
on and off at short random intervals?
Perhaps I should try to buy a better fan and place that into that weird
shroud that it came with????

Thanks in advance

shawn
 
E

Erick

It shouldn't pulse like that. It sounds as if the motor may be faulty, or
the spray may be interfering instead of lubricating.
 
K

kony

Hi

I did end just replacing both fans. Regarding the power supply fan, I just
replaced the entire power supply.

I bought the processor exhaust fan on line at ebay, because Dell didn't have
any in stock. The fan was noisy,
so I took your advise and lubricated it with spray silicone with teflon.

Whose advice?
Spray silicone with teflon is not a good lube.
Original is oil-based and one should not mix lube types,
plus it drys up to almost nothing left while a worn fan
needs high viscosity to fill gaps in the bearing... a heavy
oil.

If you were to use this fan long-term, it would be good to
relube it


That quieted it quite a bit, but now
I hear it pulsating....turning on and off. Is that normal? Do they only turn
on and off at short random intervals?

Some do, along with temp changes. Can't say for certain
about your particular system. If the control circuit is
doing this it may continue doing it with another, different
fan too and unless there's a bios update that can remedy the
situation the alternative is to not hook the fan up to that
controlled fan header... but thick oil lube may quiet it
down some regardless of this situation.


Perhaps I should try to buy a better fan and place that into that weird
shroud that it came with????

Yes, buy a fan if needed and do put it in the shroud the
original was in.... which of course means you need same size
fan.
 
S

Shawn

kony said:
If you were to use this fan long-term, it would be good to
relube it


Thanks Kony, I will relube it.



Some do, along with temp changes. Can't say for certain
about your particular system. If the control circuit is
doing this it may continue doing it with another, different
fan too and unless there's a bios update that can remedy the
situation the alternative is to not hook the fan up to that
controlled fan header... but thick oil lube may quiet it
down some regardless of this situation.


I have a Dell Dimension 2300. P4 2.0 with 512 megs of ram.
I'll check on the bias. As far as the fan, would that be a Radio shack
item, or is there a place on line that sells fans?
The current one says DATECH 0925-12HBTA-2
DC 12v 0.70A DC Brushless Fan I don't know what any of that
means of course.....
I figured that some of you gurus may know a place on line that sells this
stuff.
Thanks

Shawn
 
K

kony

I have a Dell Dimension 2300. P4 2.0 with 512 megs of ram.
I'll check on the bias. As far as the fan, would that be a Radio shack
item, or is there a place on line that sells fans?
The current one says DATECH 0925-12HBTA-2
DC 12v 0.70A DC Brushless Fan I don't know what any of that
means of course.....

If the spec is accurate, 0.70A is a very high current for a
rear exhaust fan, without question is it never using near
that much.

I've pulled a similar one out of a Dimension 2400, relubed
it with very thick oil and it worked fine afterwards... but
it might've used a different motherboard (this was an Intel
845 chipset w/integrated video & DDR memory, I don't
remember all the board in Dells, only the major details till
they get older and break down).

The 0925 generally means 92mm wide by 25mm thick, and it is
what is commonly used on the rear exhaust inside their green
plastic duct/shorkel/whatever that extends down over the CPU
'sink.

In the system I pulled that fan out of, it was running
pretty slow (RPM), what range is yours running in (high and
low if different as suggested by your description)?

What temp is the CPU under full load (Like running Prime95's
Torture Test, large in-place FFTs setting for 30 minutes)?
Under that load for 30 minutes, is the fan still surging or
contast high speed?

The issue would be determining what is necessary to keep the
CPU cool enough AND reduce surging if the motherboard is
going to perpetually do that. You might first check on a
bios update, apply it.

The issue might be that if the fan chosen is too low
(Initial) RPM, the CPU more quickly goes past it's threshold
temp which the control circuit senses and kicks up the RPM a
notch. This means choosing a higher speed (spec'd) fan
could actually result in quieter operation, except if you
often run anything at nearer full load and it would've
passed that threshold temp either way.

Thus it would be useful to find out if there is a bios
update (or bios settings change) plus relube the fan before
making further determination through full load testing of
what the resultant fan RPM is and the temp... THEN choosing
a suitable fan based on that data.

Does your fan use a 4 pin connector on the motherboard or
only 3 pin, and IF 4 pin, does it have all 4 wires going to
the fan or only 3? This is an important consideration as if
it only has 3 wires, or only 3 pin socket for connection, it
won't be using the Intel PWM control feature now present on
many boards. That feature can be a problem in itself, cause
surging like you describe but it can as easily happen
without it too... anyway, if it's using that 4th wire for
control then any 3 pin fan without it may work but not surge
simply due to lacking the feature suggort that is causing
it.

Generally speaking, the closest match to what you have that
I would pick would be a Panaflo FBA09A12M speed if the fan
did use the 4th wire for control, Panaflo FBA09A12H if it
didn't, or Panaflo FBA09A12L speed if you wanted to avoid
the connector altogether and connect to a non-controlled fan
header or use an adapter to connect it to a power supply
lead.

You'll also have to determine if the board bios allows
disabling the RPM sensor shutdown for the fan if system
shuts off without RPM signal... at least if you choose a fan
without RPM signal feature.


I figured that some of you gurus may know a place on line that sells this
stuff.

Everybody and their brother sells fans, but figuring out why
the original is surging is the first step... because after
relubing it, for the purposes of assessing system state it
should then be running ok without surge, or if it still
surges it's expected the problem will remain with a
different fan.

One place that sells a couple of the panaflos at low cost is
http://www.svcompucycle.com/standardfans92.html
but pay attention to the connector type so you get one
that's compatible (else you'll have to swap connectors,
solder old to new, or another improvisation to get it to
work).
 
G

Guest

Shawn said:
The fan was noisy,
so I took your advise and lubricated it with spray silicone with teflon.
That quieted it quite a bit, but now
I hear it pulsating....turning on and off. Is that normal? Do they only turn
on and off at short random intervals?
Perhaps I should try to buy a better fan and place that into that weird
shroud that it came with????

Don't listen to people who tell you to lubricate fans with silicone
oil. It doesn't work well on metal and may not be compatible with any
oil already in there Use only light oil made for machinery, 5 or 10
weight. But typically by the time a fan needs to be lubricated, it
also needs to be taken apart and cleaned. If the fan is connected
directly to 12V, it shouldn't pulsate, except for a mild flutter or
ticking from a thrust washer, which affects mostly fans containing
sleeve bearings (some fans have a ball bearing at the front and sleeve
bearing at the rear). However fans are sometimes powered by a pulse
width modulated controller, including by software such as Speedfan,
that can make fans pulsate or buzz.
 
K

kony

Don't listen to people who tell you to lubricate fans with silicone
oil. It doesn't work well on metal and may not be compatible with any
oil already in there Use only light oil made for machinery, 5 or 10
weight. But typically by the time a fan needs to be lubricated, it
also needs to be taken apart and cleaned.

Untrue. The vast majority of fans will be fine without
cleaning, running several years longer.

Light out made for machinery is NOT made for lubing a worn
out bearing.

There is a reason there are multiple viscosities of lube on
earth and it is never correct to use a thin lube when there
is a larger gap as in a worn fan. The fan irregularly wears
the hole and the higher film strength of the thicker lube is
again important as well as it's resistance to running out of
the bearing.

Thin oil is simply worse, no reason to specify it.
 
G

Guest

kony said:
On 20 Jan 2006 22:09:39 -0800, (e-mail address removed)
wrote:

Untrue. The vast majority of fans will be fine without
cleaning, running several years longer.

I've seen enough seize again in a few months, and the front bearing
can't easily be lubed without disassembly.
Light out made for machinery is NOT made for lubing a worn
out bearing.

Right, but the fan is usually dirty inside by then, and that's more
likely to cause binding.
 
K

kony

I've seen enough seize again in a few months, and the front bearing
can't easily be lubed without disassembly.

IF it is a ball-bearing fan, it should not be relubed at
all, especially not with light machine oil as they started
out with a very thick grease.

If it is a sleeve-bearing fan, the "front bearing" is same
as the rear and will be lubed fine.

Right, but the fan is usually dirty inside by then, and that's more
likely to cause binding.

I've lubed tons of fans, never had any bind when lubed with
thick oil... no disassembly required.
 
G

Guest

kony said:
IF it is a ball-bearing fan, it should not be relubed at
all, especially not with light machine oil as they started
out with a very thick grease.

That's an important point I failed to mention.
If it is a sleeve-bearing fan, the "front bearing" is same
as the rear and will be lubed fine.

I doubt marketers would advertise "dual ball bearings" if no ball
bearing fans contained sleeve bearings. Here are some mentions of
ball/sleeve fans:

www.overclock.co.uk/customer/product.php?productid=16630
www.dynatron-corp.com/products/coolingfan/coolingfan_result.asp?link=y&dim=6
www.dau-components.co.uk/fan-tech.htm
www.cooltron.com/technical_FanLife.shtml

One Delta model is the AFB0512HB, once shipped by AMD with certain K6-2
CPUs, and I once received Sunon or NMB 24VDC ball/sleeve fans from
Jameco, which doesn't distinguish between ball/ball and ball/sleeve.
 
K

kony

That's an important point I failed to mention.

I also failed to mention something- that when I never have
any bind, it is because I don't try to relube the
ball-bearing ones... they're just too great a risk, imo, as
one that seems working fine can chew itself up real quick
internally if it was bad enough to have failed the first
time.


I doubt marketers would advertise "dual ball bearings" if no ball
bearing fans contained sleeve bearings. Here are some mentions of
ball/sleeve fans:

www.overclock.co.uk/customer/product.php?productid=16630
www.dynatron-corp.com/products/coolingfan/coolingfan_result.asp?link=y&dim=6
www.dau-components.co.uk/fan-tech.htm
www.cooltron.com/technical_FanLife.shtml

I don't lube ball-sleeve bearing fans. IMO, they are the
worst possible fan because debris from the sleeve bearing
gets into the ball bearing, lube that's any thinner than
grease can foul the grease in the ball bearing, and they
just seem to have a pitifully short life even if relubed,
compared to a full sleeve bearing fan. Additionally,
they're noisier than sleeve-bearing fans... something
reasonable to tolerate when it's a decent dual-ball-bearing
fan as they're expected to run for so long.

Essentially, I'd never aim to reuse a ball/sleeve fan long
term, maybe at most trying to keep it running for 3 days
till another could be delivered.
One Delta model is the AFB0512HB, once shipped by AMD with certain K6-2
CPUs, and I once received Sunon or NMB 24VDC ball/sleeve fans from
Jameco, which doesn't distinguish between ball/ball and ball/sleeve.

I'd dealt with quite a few Sunons and NMBs especially, those
seem to be rare fans you have. The Delta is expected
though, as it was only 10-15mm thick, right?

I'm reluctant to relube 10-15mm thick fans too, if a thicker
fan will fit on the part.
 

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