Power On Problem

[PawsForThought]

I had an Antec 400 True psu that died on me. So I decided to replace it with
the Antec Trueblue 480. After installing it, when I would start up my
computer, it would turn on for a couple seconds, then the power would go off
completely for about 5 seconds, then the computer would power on normally.
This didn't happen every single time the computer started, but often enough
that I thought I had another bad psu. So I took the Antec back and got a
Thermaltake Purepower 560. Everything was fine for a few days but then this
morning when I turned on my computer, the same thing happened wherein I would
power up, within a couple seconds the computer would power off for about 5
seconds, then power up fine. So...this leads me to believe it was never the
psu but something else. My thoughts are going to the Soyo mobo. Does anyone
have any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance for any help. Below are my
specs:

P4 3.2C on Soyo SY-P4I865PE Plus Dragon 2 v. 1.0
Corsair TWINX1024-3200XL (2X512)
BFG GeForce 5900 Ultra
Audigy soundcard
WD SE 80G hdd w/8 mb cache
BenQ DVD Writer, CDRW & Lite On DVD Rom
Thermaltake Purepower 560 psu
WinXP Pro - SP1

 

[¤jº~¥Á±Ú]

At this point, you already have tried 3 PSUs, so it is not a PSU issue, I
bet it is most likely a mother board issue.

 

[David Maynard]

I had an Antec 400 True psu that died on me. So I decided to replace it with
the Antec Trueblue 480. After installing it, when I would start up my
computer, it would turn on for a couple seconds, then the power would go off
completely for about 5 seconds, then the computer would power on normally.
This didn't happen every single time the computer started, but often enough
that I thought I had another bad psu. So I took the Antec back and got a
Thermaltake Purepower 560. Everything was fine for a few days but then this
morning when I turned on my computer, the same thing happened wherein I would
power up, within a couple seconds the computer would power off for about 5
seconds, then power up fine. So...this leads me to believe it was never the
psu but something else. My thoughts are going to the Soyo mobo. Does anyone
have any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance for any help. Below are my
specs:

Sounds almost like a sticking power switch that 'stays in' for a few
seconds after you let go of it.

 

[w_tom]

Exactly why good technicians first collect facts - learn why
a problem occurred before wildly replacing parts. The 3.5
digit multimeter would tell us immediately where to start
looking for a problem. The power supply system is three
components - power switch, motherboard controller, and PSU.
The below procedure tells you how to collect facts and
summarizes what those functions are. In your case, the
voltages on green, purple, and gray wire are probably
significant:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q or
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

In the meantime, your system would be just fine with a 300
watt supply. A 250 watt supply would probably work just
fine. Why all this "more power" purchasing? Do you think
more wattage means better quality? Hardly.

First get the meter. Collect useful facts (numbers). (No
one can effectively help you without those numbers.) Solve
problem the first time.

 

[PawsForThought]

From: David Maynard (e-mail address removed)

Sounds almost like a sticking power switch that 'stays in' for a few
seconds after you let go of it.

Thanks. You might be onto something. I'm going to play around with the switch
and see what happens.

 

[PawsForThought]

From: "¤jº~¥Á±Ú" (e-mail address removed)

At this point, you already have tried 3 PSUs, so it is not a PSU issue, I
bet it is most likely a mother board issue.

Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking you're probably right. Got this Soyo
motherboard free after rebate (providing I ever get the rebate). I guess you
get what you pay for.

 

[PawsForThought]

From: w_tom (e-mail address removed)

Exactly why good technicians first collect facts - learn why
a problem occurred before wildly replacing parts. The 3.5
digit multimeter would tell us immediately where to start
looking for a problem. The power supply system is three
components - power switch, motherboard controller, and PSU.
The below procedure tells you how to collect facts and
summarizes what those functions are. In your case, the
voltages on green, purple, and gray wire are probably
significant:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q or
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Thanks for the tips, Tom. I appreciate it.

In the meantime, your system would be just fine with a 300
watt supply. A 250 watt supply would probably work just
fine. Why all this "more power" purchasing? Do you think
more wattage means better quality? Hardly.

Nope, I don't think that. My choice was either the Thermaltake 560 or a
CompUSA brand. The store was giving me $80 towards a new psu so that's why I
felt compelled to buy it there.

First get the meter. Collect useful facts (numbers). (No
one can effectively help you without those numbers.) Solve
problem the first time.

Will do. Thanks again.

 

[w_tom]

At least one CompUSA power supply I had seen was missing
essential functions; violated basic Intel specs. How could
you suspect same? If a long and written list of numerical
specs is not provided. An abridged example of numerical
specs:
Specification compliance: ATX 2.03 & ATX12V v1.1
Short circuit protection on all outputs
Over voltage protection
Over power protection
100% hi-pot test
PFC harmonics compliance: EN61000-3-2 + A1 + A2
EMI/RFI compliance: CE, CISPR22 & FCC part 15 class B
Safety compliance: VDE, TUV, D, N, S, Fi, UL, C-UL & CB
Hold up time, full load: 16ms. typical
Dielectric withstand, input to frame/ground: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Dielectric withstand, input to output: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Ripple/noise: 1%

 

[PawsForThought]

From: w_tom (e-mail address removed)

PawsForThought wrote:

At least one CompUSA power supply I had seen was missing
essential functions; violated basic Intel specs. How could
you suspect same? If a long and written list of numerical
specs is not provided. An abridged example of numerical
specs: <snip>

That's why I bought the Thermaltake over the CompUSA housebrand. Even the
salesman told me to stay clear of their housebrand.

 

[larrymoencurly]

At least one CompUSA power supply I had seen was missing
essential functions; violated basic Intel specs. How could
you suspect same? If a long and written list of numerical
specs is not provided.

CompUSA gets its bramd pf PSUs from several sources. Their website
always lists this as "FMI", but FMI said that they were just a
distributor and got its PSUs from another distributor, Four-Star,
which said that the brand changed about every week but was Win-tact on
the week I had phoned them. Win-tact is supposedly a very good brand
and one of PC Power & Cooling's suppliers. Unfortunately many CompUSA
brand PSUs are made by worse companies, including
Leadman/Powmax/Raidmax.

Often the real manufacturer can be found from the registration numbers
printed under the safety certification marks, like UL (often looks
like "RU", where the "R" is backward -- www.ul.com) or CSA
(www.csa.ca), but sometimes there's no number or a fake number (the
case with Achieve, a cheapo), or the marketing company has its own
numbers put on -- Antec and Mad Dog do this. The president of Mad Dog
said that he would not disclose the actual maker but claimed that it
was one of the five largest PSU makers in the world. Unfortunately
CompUSA had no unboxed Mad Dogs (they wanted to charge me 15% for
opening a box), and none of their "Certified Product Specialists" knew
anything.

 

[w_tom]

No written specs? Then assume the worst. If they don't
claim to include essential functions, then they will not.
Especially since most computer assemblers don't know what
those essential functions are. ("If it works, then all
functions must be there." is the standard recipe for
disaster.) Functions that were defacto standard even 30 years
ago are routinely missing in clone computers because too many
computer assemblers don't even know how electricity works ...
and don't demand written numerical specs.

 

[larrymoencurly]

No written specs? Then assume the worst. If they don't
claim to include essential functions, then they will not.

No written specs is better than faked written specs -- why else would
every cheapo ATX PSU be rated for exactly 50,000 hours or exactly
100,000 hours MTBF?

I've bought only three regular PSUs in the past few years, all Antecs,
none over $20 after rebate, except for a $25 that included a case.
The rest have been cheaper and came with no specs but were originally
supplied to large PC makers.

 

[w_tom]

If they provide written claims of functions that do not
exist in the supply, then the vendor can be sued. How to sell
power supplies that are missing essential functions? Don't
even claim to include those functions. Far more profitable to
pretend power supply has those essential functions especially
when most computer assemblers don't even know what those
functions are nor understand the need for those functions.
It's called dumping.

Fake specs can create a law suite. In a market where most
customers do not have minimal knowledge, best to sell (dump) a
supply without any specs so that the customer will both assume
and never learn.

Curious question. What happens to supplies in CompUSA if
found to have counterfeit UL stamps? Do they have those
supplies confiscated? Do they only need to remove counterfeit
labels? How much power have laws given to UL to protect their
integrity? Many counterfeit UL labeled products have been
reported? Has there ever been prosecution or impoundment?

 

[larrymoencurly]

If they provide written claims of functions that do not
exist in the supply, then the vendor can be sued. How to sell
power supplies that are missing essential functions? Don't
even claim to include those functions.

Almost every PSU is claimed to be protected against shorts and other
overloads and overvoltage, and as far as I can tell all ATX PSUs have
such protection circuitry built into them, but whether it works or not
is another matter.

Curious question. What happens to supplies in CompUSA if
found to have counterfeit UL stamps? Do they have those
supplies confiscated? Do they only need to remove counterfeit
labels? How much power have laws given to UL to protect their
integrity? Many counterfeit UL labeled products have been
reported? Has there ever been prosecution or impoundment?

I don't think that CompUSA ever sells such PSUs, but I've seen other
vendors offer PSUs with no registration numbers under the UL and CSA
symbols, or the numbers were invalid when checked at www.ul.com and
www.csa.ca.

I once saw a website offer UL approve PSUs in plastic cases, so I
asked if they came that way from the factory because if the dealer
installed its own plastic covers they'd have to spend $$$ for new UL
approval. A few minutes later they replied that they installed their
own covers, and I noticed that the website had been edited to
eliminate mention of US UL approval.

BTW, last Friday some Fry's Electronics stores offered high-quality
300W Antec PSUs for $5, after rebate, including a small but decent
case. I hate myself for paying $25 for the same thing a few months
ago.

 

[PawsForThought]

Is it just me, or is this response from Soyo crazy? I've never heard of this
being normal for any motherboard:

My problem: When I first turn on my computer, it starts to power on for a
couple of seconds. Then it completely shuts off for about 3 seconds, and then
it powers back on and then it's fine. This problem does not happen every single
time I start my computer, but often enough. I know it's not the power supply as
I've tried 3 different ones. I never had a problem until I started using this
Soyo board. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this problem?
Thanks.

Response from Soyo tech:
"This is actually a normal trait of our P4 Mainboards it is not a problem to
worry about your power is working just fine."

 

[David Maynard]

Is it just me, or is this response from Soyo crazy? I've never heard of this
being normal for any motherboard:

My problem: When I first turn on my computer, it starts to power on for a
couple of seconds. Then it completely shuts off for about 3 seconds, and then
it powers back on and then it's fine. This problem does not happen every single
time I start my computer, but often enough. I know it's not the power supply as
I've tried 3 different ones. I never had a problem until I started using this
Soyo board. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this problem?
Thanks.

Response from Soyo tech:
"This is actually a normal trait of our P4 Mainboards it is not a problem to
worry about your power is working just fine."

Well, either they're crazy or they make crazy motherboards Or perhaps
there's a language problem and they didn't understand your description.

 

[John Doe]

Is it just me, or is this response from Soyo crazy? I've never
heard of this being normal for any motherboard:

Has Soyo started putting frames around their ISA sockets? That's one
reason why I didn't buy one of theirs a while back (maybe about two
years ago, whenever). That was a little strange IMO.

My problem: When I first turn on my computer, it starts to power
on for a couple of seconds. Then it completely shuts off for about
3 seconds, and then it powers back on and then it's fine. ....
Response from Soyo tech:
"This is actually a normal trait of our P4 Mainboards it is not a
problem to worry about your power is working just fine."

Knowing about AMD mainboards, I would say that's a little strange or
"hooray for AMD".

At least they took responsibility for it. I would expect no reply or
a say nothing reply.

You might want to post to their group.
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.soyo

Good luck.




Off-topic. An individual hobbyist might want to consider this when
shopping for mainboard/motherboard. Check out the discussion group
for that maker to see there is significant traffic in case you have
problems or just want to talk about it. For example:
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.soyo

 

[PawsForThought]

From: John Doe (e-mail address removed)

Has Soyo started putting frames around their ISA sockets? That's one
reason why I didn't buy one of theirs a while back (maybe about two
years ago, whenever). That was a little strange IMO.

I'm not sure, but I'll check it out next time I have the case open.

Knowing about AMD mainboards, I would say that's a little strange or
"hooray for AMD".

LOL Well I never experienced this kind of problem with any of my AMD systems.

At least they took responsibility for it. I would expect no reply or
a say nothing reply.

You might want to post to their group.
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.soyo

I did post there about a week or so ago and got no response. The response I
did get was from their new forum:
http://forum.soyo.com

Good luck.

Thanks very much. I'm getting an Asus P4C800 E Deluxe for Christmas so won't
have to deal with this Soyo problem anymore