J
John Turco
Arno said:
That's a rather harsh judgement! Going by your name, I take it
you're in the German-speaking part of Switzerland...so, has the
modern rivalry between Britain and Germany colored your comments,
perhaps?
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Power failure during Windows 7 defrag (x64 Ultimate edition)
That's a rather harsh judgement! Going by your name, I take it
you're in the German-speaking part of Switzerland...so, has the
modern rivalry between Britain and Germany colored your comments,
perhaps?
J
John Turco
David said:To those that know a little history, rather than believing fairytales
about falling apples, Newton was a much more complicated man. There is
no doubt that he did make many scientific discoveries and mathematical
developments. Like almost any scientist, much was based on the works of
others or collaboration with others. However, he was particularly poor
at acknowledging this - almost as bad as Edison. His good work was all
done in his earlier days - as he got older, he left maths and science
behind for alchemy (the "real" kind - trying to create gold) and
occultism, and also politics. He published far more on occultism and
odd theology than on science and maths.
He was also a particularly nasty man, probably made worse by all the
mercury fumes he breathed while trying to make gold:
<http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/study_res/hawking/newton.html>
Whew; I was unaware of Izzy's dark side! A vindictive, spiteful and
petty individual, indeed.
Was he a "great" scientist? Yes, no doubt. But "history's greatest
scientist" is far too extreme a claim. I don't think anyone who
understands the word "scientist" would say that such a concept exists -
different scientists have excelled in different ways. It would be like
trying to define the "world's greatest musician" or "history's greatest
sportsman".
Nationalism >alone< assures that there will never be a consensus on such
matters. As I've read, your homeland of Scotland leads the British Isles
and Contintental Europe, in overall achievement...including the areas
under discussion here (science & technology), and most everything else.
[The Germans would disagree (as they often do), doubtlessly.]
R
Rod Speed
John Turco wrote
Very accurate indeed. I do a lot of reading on those
subjects and havent seen any problems in any of them.
In the case of the civil war series, quite a bit of it is actually
direct from what the participants wrote at the time, both with
important people who made the decisions on what got done and
with everyone down to the grunt level and their personal diarys.
Just watched one of the 'Who do you think you are' series last night.
Fascinating detail of how many germans ended up in the US due to
a complete pack of lies in a german book at the time that the english
queen would give anyone who showed up in england free passage
to to america and free land when they got there, in the very early
settlement days. Turned out that it was a complete pack of lies and
that while the british were happy to pay for the voyage to america,
they were legally indentured laborers and they ended up making
tar etc for the british navy. Once his ancestor had paid off his
indenture, he quite quickly ended up with 10K acres of land due
to the way land was sold to those who wanted land there in those
days, and then ended up killed by Indians when he settled on land
right at the edge of what the settlers were legally allowed to settle
on, with the local Indians deciding that they wouldnt have a bar of
that, in the days before America was even independant.
Another one looked at the ancestors of Boris Johnston, Lord Mayor
of London who turns out to be descended from German royalty and
is related to King George II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson
Boris' reaction when he found out about that was utterly hilarious,
unforgettable. Also fascinanting how that history got lost and that
it was news to him when it turned up later, presumably because
his ancestor was one of the illegitimate spawn.
That series gets the assistence of the experts in the field who
wouldnt bother to talk to people like me and you and its one
hell of a way of getting a good look at the low level history
in a very digestible format indeed.
And with the best of the american documentarys, you actually
get to see the actual particupants and decision makers being
interviewed about what went on in the situation being covered.
Its utterly amazing what some are quite happy to spill
the beans on now and to actually watch people like
Elsberg in the flesh, spelling out why he chose to spill
the beans on what went on in Vietnam at the policy level.
Its completely trivial to check that now as you are watching it.
I normally watch it with the PC beside me because I do everything
exept plant the vegys etc like that and its completely to pull up the
wikipedia articl on the subject being covered and check the detail
and do that using google too if you doubt the claim being made.
Because those didnt come from anglo saxon countrys.
It isnt even possible to define it.
It always left it for dead.
Separate matter entirely to your never quite caught up.
In chemistry alone it left britain and america for dead.
Rod Speed wrote
I'm sure they're all very engrossing, but...how accurate are they?
Very accurate indeed. I do a lot of reading on those
subjects and havent seen any problems in any of them.
In the case of the civil war series, quite a bit of it is actually
direct from what the participants wrote at the time, both with
important people who made the decisions on what got done and
with everyone down to the grunt level and their personal diarys.
Just watched one of the 'Who do you think you are' series last night.
Fascinating detail of how many germans ended up in the US due to
a complete pack of lies in a german book at the time that the english
queen would give anyone who showed up in england free passage
to to america and free land when they got there, in the very early
settlement days. Turned out that it was a complete pack of lies and
that while the british were happy to pay for the voyage to america,
they were legally indentured laborers and they ended up making
tar etc for the british navy. Once his ancestor had paid off his
indenture, he quite quickly ended up with 10K acres of land due
to the way land was sold to those who wanted land there in those
days, and then ended up killed by Indians when he settled on land
right at the edge of what the settlers were legally allowed to settle
on, with the local Indians deciding that they wouldnt have a bar of
that, in the days before America was even independant.
Another one looked at the ancestors of Boris Johnston, Lord Mayor
of London who turns out to be descended from German royalty and
is related to King George II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson
Boris' reaction when he found out about that was utterly hilarious,
unforgettable. Also fascinanting how that history got lost and that
it was news to him when it turned up later, presumably because
his ancestor was one of the illegitimate spawn.
That series gets the assistence of the experts in the field who
wouldnt bother to talk to people like me and you and its one
hell of a way of getting a good look at the low level history
in a very digestible format indeed.
And with the best of the american documentarys, you actually
get to see the actual particupants and decision makers being
interviewed about what went on in the situation being covered.
Its utterly amazing what some are quite happy to spill
the beans on now and to actually watch people like
Elsberg in the flesh, spelling out why he chose to spill
the beans on what went on in Vietnam at the policy level.
My early recollections as a child (late 1950's/early 1960's), involve
watching the U.S. documentary shows of that era (e.g., "Biography"
and "20th Century"). They were fascinating to me, even then; alas, I
question their objectivity and depth, now.
Its completely trivial to check that now as you are watching it.
I normally watch it with the PC beside me because I do everything
exept plant the vegys etc like that and its completely to pull up the
wikipedia articl on the subject being covered and check the detail
and do that using google too if you doubt the claim being made.
No Beethovens nor Bachs in that bunch, unfortunately.
Because those didnt come from anglo saxon countrys.
It >does<, to a fair degree.
Nope.
Define "great" for me, then.
It isnt even possible to define it.
When did Germany's automotive production overtake Japan's, may I ask?
It always left it for dead.
Johann still ain't the world's "No. 1" industrial power,
by a long shot -- and he >never will be<, either.
Separate matter entirely to your never quite caught up.
In chemistry alone it left britain and america for dead.
R
Rod Speed
John Turco wrote
I started off with a PDP8S, the serial one and an IBM 360/50 in the mid 60s.
\>>>>>>> Although, I'm surprised Switzerland's TV programming is as
More it added yet another layer.
Those arent equivalent.
Those that dont agree on that dont generally do that because of cultural bias.
Most dont even believe that there can be any such animal as history's greatest scientist.
Rod Speed wrote
Yes, one might say so. I started out with a "Pionex" 486DX2/66MHz
tower (4MB RAM, 425MB hard disk); it cost circa $500.00 USD, in 1995.
I started off with a PDP8S, the serial one and an IBM 360/50 in the mid 60s.
(Pretty powerful puppy in its day, and a relative latecomer.)
\>>>>>>> Although, I'm surprised Switzerland's TV programming is as
Doesn't Britain lead the world, in credit card transactions?
Nope.
(Or were you referring to Germany, instead?)
Yep.
No, but, they were descended from Vikings. I'm aware that's trivial,
as the Normans were thoroughly Frenchified and strongly altered the
English language, causing it to diverge from German.
More it added yet another layer.
Which is why the word "generally" was used.
Those arent equivalent.
Opinions vary widely, and cultural bias always exists.
Those that dont agree on that dont generally do that because of cultural bias.
Most dont even believe that there can be any such animal as history's greatest scientist.
J
John Turco
Rod said:Very accurate indeed. I do a lot of reading on those subjects and
havent seen any problems in any of them.
In the case of the civil war series, quite a bit of it is actually
direct from what the participants wrote at the time, both with
important people who made the decisions on what got done and
with everyone down to the grunt level and their personal diarys.
Fine.
Just watched one of the 'Who do you think you are' series last night.
Fascinating detail of how many germans ended up in the US due to
a complete pack of lies in a german book at the time that the english
queen would give anyone who showed up in england free passage
to to america and free land when they got there, in the very early
settlement days. Turned out that it was a complete pack of lies and
that while the british were happy to pay for the voyage to america,
they were legally indentured laborers and they ended up making
tar etc for the british navy. Once his ancestor had paid off his
indenture, he quite quickly ended up with 10K acres of land due
to the way land was sold to those who wanted land there in those
days, and then ended up killed by Indians when he settled on land
right at the edge of what the settlers were legally allowed to settle
on, with the local Indians deciding that they wouldnt have a bar of
that, in the days before America was even independant.
Another one looked at the ancestors of Boris Johnston, Lord Mayor
of London who turns out to be descended from German royalty and
is related to King George II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson
Boris' reaction when he found out about that was utterly hilarious,
unforgettable. Also fascinanting how that history got lost and that
it was news to him when it turned up later, presumably because his
ancestor was one of the illegitimate spawn.
That series gets the assistence of the experts in the field who
wouldnt bother to talk to people like me and you and its one
hell of a way of getting a good look at the low level history
in a very digestible format indeed.
Why, those cunning poms! During WWII, in the U.S.A., some citizens
of German descent took Irish surnames. They were trying to avoid
war-related persecution, fomented by British propaganda.
And with the best of the american documentarys, you actually
get to see the actual particupants and decision makers being
interviewed about what went on in the situation being covered.
Its utterly amazing what some are quite happy to spill the
beans on now and to actually watch people like Elsberg in
the flesh, spelling out why he chose to spill the beans on
what went on in Vietnam at the policy level.
Neither Herr Schicklegrubber nor Uncle Joe, would've allowed
such candidness, back in the day! (Another time, a different
continent.)
Its completely trivial to check that now as you are watching it.
I normally watch it with the PC beside me because I do everything
exept plant the vegys etc like that and its completely to pull up
the wikipedia articl on the subject being covered and check the
detail and do that using google too if you doubt the claim being
made.
Clever.
Because those didnt come from anglo saxon countrys.
Wasn't that my very point?
Nope.
You're welcomed to your opinion, Rod.
It isnt even possible to define it.
Possible, yes; it only needs to be quantified.
It always left it for dead.
Citation? I believe the U.S. was on top till 1980, when Japan
went ahead of it.
Forget Germany!
Separate matter entirely to your never quite caught up.
Germany didn't, any more than Russia. The latter can have
all the nuclear missiles and space stations, in existence;
both countries remain peasant societies, compared to the
United States.
In chemistry alone it left britain and america for dead.
Very true. The U.S. chemical industry got its start, after
German patents were seized as WWI reparations.
Yet, despite Germany's substantial early leads in certain
technical areas, it failed to match the breadth of American
know-how. The U.S.A. invented the concept of "interchangeable
parts" and exploited it to the fullest, thereby dooming both
the Germans and the Japanese to crushing WWII defeats.
Japan and Germany were virtually medieval, and each highly
benefited from U.S. occupation, in the postwar period. With
surprising suddeness, they became modern nations (by "Old
World" standards, at least).
R
Rod Speed
John Turco wrote
Queen Liz did too for the same reason.
Corse her real name was Battenberg Saxe Corburg Gotha, so its not
very surprising that she decided that Windsor was less of a mouthful.
Lou who got blown to bits by those unspeakable irish called
himself Mountbatten and spilled the beans on what Liz got up
to in a series he did on TV too. And frothed at the mouth about
how those unspeakable russians had dealt with his relos too.
Niether got any say once they had been disposed of.
Spier did it anyway once he was gone.
So did Krushchev.
It was always a dud.
You arent welcome to yours on that.
Not even possible to do that.
Japan didnt even have any cars when Germany did.
No thanks, left both of them for dead on quality alone.
Wrong with the car industry and the chemical industry and rockets, optics etc etc etc.
You dont have a ****ing clue about the basics.
Thats just plain wrong with the car industry alone.
Like hell it did.
That had nothing to do with interchangeable parts.
Japan certainly was. They didnt even exploit the wheel.
Its a lie with germany tho.
They actually benefitted much more from the Marshall Plan.
You've mangled that utterly with germany. Pig ignorant about
what Bismarck did long before anyone else for starters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck
Rod Speed wrote
Why, those cunning poms! During WWII, in the U.S.A., some citizens
of German descent took Irish surnames. They were trying to avoid
war-related persecution, fomented by British propaganda.
Queen Liz did too for the same reason.
Corse her real name was Battenberg Saxe Corburg Gotha, so its not
very surprising that she decided that Windsor was less of a mouthful.
Lou who got blown to bits by those unspeakable irish called
himself Mountbatten and spilled the beans on what Liz got up
to in a series he did on TV too. And frothed at the mouth about
how those unspeakable russians had dealt with his relos too.
Neither Herr Schicklegrubber nor Uncle Joe, would've allowed such
candidness, back in the day! (Another time, a different continent.)
Niether got any say once they had been disposed of.
Spier did it anyway once he was gone.
So did Krushchev.
Wasn't that my very point?
It was always a dud.
You're welcomed to your opinion, Rod.
You arent welcome to yours on that.
Possible, yes; it only needs to be quantified.
Not even possible to do that.
Citation?
Japan didnt even have any cars when Germany did.
I believe the U.S. was on top till 1980, when Japan went ahead of it.
Forget Germany!
No thanks, left both of them for dead on quality alone.
Germany didn't, any more than Russia.
Wrong with the car industry and the chemical industry and rockets, optics etc etc etc.
The latter can have all the nuclear missiles and space stations, in existence;
both countries remain peasant societies, compared to the United States.
You dont have a ****ing clue about the basics.
Very true. The U.S. chemical industry got its start, after
German patents were seized as WWI reparations.
Yet, despite Germany's substantial early leads in certain technical
areas, it failed to match the breadth of American know-how.
Thats just plain wrong with the car industry alone.
The U.S.A. invented the concept of "interchangeable parts"
Like hell it did.
and exploited it to the fullest, thereby dooming both
the Germans and the Japanese to crushing WWII defeats.
That had nothing to do with interchangeable parts.
Japan and Germany were virtually medieval,
Japan certainly was. They didnt even exploit the wheel.
Its a lie with germany tho.
and each highly benefited from U.S. occupation, in the postwar period.
They actually benefitted much more from the Marshall Plan.
With surprising suddeness, they became modern nations by "Old World" standards, at least).
You've mangled that utterly with germany. Pig ignorant about
what Bismarck did long before anyone else for starters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck
J
John Turco
[Note: Due to topic drift and article length, I've deleted lots of earlier text; sorry about
that, Rod.]
And Germany didn't even have any >chariots<, when the ancient Greeks and Romans did. Funny
how all of those "wogs" were civilized long before the Germans, is it not?
Not Japan, today. Japanese economy models are often superior to German luxury cars.
Mercedes, for example, has an embarrassingly poor reliability record (and many American
vehicles also "leave it for dead").
You're "cherry picking" the areas where the Germans were most advanced. Besides, it was
Henry Ford who led the way in automotive mass production methods...and the name "Ford"
doesn't sound very Teutonic, does it?
Furthermore, Wernher von Braun and his German mob freely borrowed ideas from Robert
Goddard (an American who became modern rocketry's greatest pioneer). WWII's famous
"V2" ballistic missle was largely based on Goddard's writings, which German secret
agents obtained from U.S. public libraries!
Von Braun idolized him; alas, Goddard died of throat cancer, before they could meet.
What "basics" do you mean?
All right, here's something to ponder: In WWII, U.S. industrial capacity was >10
times< that of Germany and Japan COMBINED.
Please tell me, Rod, how the Germans could've possibly cranked out more cars than
the Americans did, during that era?
Perfected it, at least.
Okay, then, >why< did the U.S. leave everybody in the dust? Why did Britain need
to be bailed out by "Lend Lease" aid, before the Americans officially entered the
war? Why was Japan's mighty Pacific fleet (and merchant marine) wiped out by the
U.S. Navy, and why couldn't the Germans stop the Normandy Invasion?
Technical prowess isn't the only measure of a civilization, regardless. For that
matter, on a per capita basis, Scotland has been more successful than any other
place in Britain or Europe. (The Scots leave the Germans for dead, in many ways.)
Traditionally, it was pretty damned autocratic, by Western standards.
In Europe, particularly. (Although, Britain received much more help than Germany
did.}
Oh, so, Herr Bismarck created the first welfare state, did he? Not exactly a proud
moment in European history, I think. (His ideas may have set a precedent for Herr
Schicklegrubber's "National Socialist" party, eh?)
Maybe, ol' Otto was later rolling in his grave, because of Germany's shame? Death
camps, slave labor, etc. (German black marks of WWII) are as "medieval" as it gets.
Japanese, Russians and Germans all had official policies of terror (mass murder,
rape and plunder) in the countries they occupied, and each employed them with
shocking relish.
====
Enough of this bickering, over pretzel peddlers -- happy holidays, Rod! (Santa
Claus should reward you handsomely, for bravely defending his German brothers.)
that, Rod.]
Japan didnt even have any cars when Germany did.
And Germany didn't even have any >chariots<, when the ancient Greeks and Romans did. Funny
how all of those "wogs" were civilized long before the Germans, is it not?
No thanks, left both of them for dead on quality alone.
Not Japan, today. Japanese economy models are often superior to German luxury cars.
Mercedes, for example, has an embarrassingly poor reliability record (and many American
vehicles also "leave it for dead").
Wrong with the car industry and the chemical industry and rockets, optics etc etc etc.
You're "cherry picking" the areas where the Germans were most advanced. Besides, it was
Henry Ford who led the way in automotive mass production methods...and the name "Ford"
doesn't sound very Teutonic, does it?
Furthermore, Wernher von Braun and his German mob freely borrowed ideas from Robert
Goddard (an American who became modern rocketry's greatest pioneer). WWII's famous
"V2" ballistic missle was largely based on Goddard's writings, which German secret
agents obtained from U.S. public libraries!
Von Braun idolized him; alas, Goddard died of throat cancer, before they could meet.
You dont have a ****ing clue about the basics.
What "basics" do you mean?
Thats just plain wrong with the car industry alone.
All right, here's something to ponder: In WWII, U.S. industrial capacity was >10
times< that of Germany and Japan COMBINED.
Please tell me, Rod, how the Germans could've possibly cranked out more cars than
the Americans did, during that era?
Like hell it did.
Perfected it, at least.
That had nothing to do with interchangeable parts.
Okay, then, >why< did the U.S. leave everybody in the dust? Why did Britain need
to be bailed out by "Lend Lease" aid, before the Americans officially entered the
war? Why was Japan's mighty Pacific fleet (and merchant marine) wiped out by the
U.S. Navy, and why couldn't the Germans stop the Normandy Invasion?
Technical prowess isn't the only measure of a civilization, regardless. For that
matter, on a per capita basis, Scotland has been more successful than any other
place in Britain or Europe. (The Scots leave the Germans for dead, in many ways.)
Japan certainly was. They didnt even exploit the wheel.
Really?
Its a lie with germany tho.
Traditionally, it was pretty damned autocratic, by Western standards.
They actually benefitted much more from the Marshall Plan.
In Europe, particularly. (Although, Britain received much more help than Germany
did.}
You've mangled that utterly with germany. Pig ignorant about what Bismarck did
long before anyone else for starters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck
Oh, so, Herr Bismarck created the first welfare state, did he? Not exactly a proud
moment in European history, I think. (His ideas may have set a precedent for Herr
Schicklegrubber's "National Socialist" party, eh?)
Maybe, ol' Otto was later rolling in his grave, because of Germany's shame? Death
camps, slave labor, etc. (German black marks of WWII) are as "medieval" as it gets.
Japanese, Russians and Germans all had official policies of terror (mass murder,
rape and plunder) in the countries they occupied, and each employed them with
shocking relish.
====
Enough of this bickering, over pretzel peddlers -- happy holidays, Rod! (Santa
Claus should reward you handsomely, for bravely defending his German brothers.)
R
Rod Speed
John Turco wrote
I'd have you publicly flogged if you hadnt enjoyed that so much the last time.
But they ****ed over the Romans very comprehensensively indeed in the Teutoberg Forest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest
Depends on what you call civilised.
Yes, Germany was very late as a nation state.
Yep, leaves Japan for dead luxury car wise.
Oh bullshit.
More drivel.
They blow your silly claim about 'never quite caught up' completely out of the water.
Separate matter entirely to the quality end of the car market.
Separate matter entirely to your never quite caught up.
Oh bullshit.
More bullshit.
More bullshit. And the car industry didnt.
And von Braun left him for dead on actual rocket technology produced.
That line about peasant societys is completely ****ing silly with Germany.
Thats got nothing to do wiith your previous silly claim about know how.
Never said they did. I JUST said that the TECHNOLOGY left the yank shit for dead.
They didnt even do that any better than the krauts did.
Because of that industrial capacity. Thats an entirely
separate matter to the TECHNOLOGY being discussed.
Because WW1 had completely crippled them economically and
then that fool Churchill pulled the plug on them economically by
returning to the gold standard at the wrong rate.
Because of that industrial capacity difference and because
while they started the war with technology that left much
of the west for dead, particularly with aircraft, they didnt
continue to develop that during the war due to various
resources limitations that they had that the yanks didnt have.
Because of that massive discrepency in industrial capacity at that time.
Their TECHNOLOGY left the yanks for dead with tanks
and the V2 etc and even with gas turbine aircraft etc too.
And the krauts system was massively crippled by the fact they
they had been stupid enough to not drive thru to balkan oil fields
and concentrated on Moscow instead. If they had not done that,
they could very easily have won in europe and the US wouldnt
have even gotten involved in the war if it hadnt been for the
terminal stupidity the Japs did with Pearl Harbor.
Corse it isnt and in that respect the krauts left the US for
dead in a great raff of areas with music alone, as you said.
Have fun listing the scottish car you drive today.
And in many more ways they dont, most obviously with music and philosophy.
Yep, one of the more bizarre aspects of Japan. They didnt even with
stuff as primitive as the wheelbarrow, let alone horse drawn vehicles.
That doesnt make it medieval, just autocratic.
And Bismarck left the rest of the world for dead socialism wise too.
Nope, its what ensured that the Japs wouldnt be the stupid again
and we wouldnt see another world war a generation later like we
did with Germany after WW1.
And didnt manage to do anything like as much with it as Germany did.
Thats arguable given what the roman catholic church got up to.
But yes, thats true in a nation state sense.
You're completely wrong with education and health care alone.
Not so much set a precedent as once the country started down that
path with education and health care etc there was no going back on that.
Its far from clear what he would have made of those.
Certainly there was plenty of slave labor in kraut colonys in his time.
He was a Prussian after all.
Wrong again, that didnt happen in medieval times. They didnt bother with
death camps, they just butchered people without bothering with camps.
It takes the kraut genious for industrialisation to do that with the jews and slavs.
So did the British in South Africa and India and Scotland and Ireland.
Corse the British never did anything like that in Ireland or post Culloden, eh ?
The bugger wont even talk to me at all, maybe because I have no chimney at all.
I do have a flat roof that should be easy to land the reindeer on, but he never
shows up here, maybe he doesnt like the antenna farm or sunfin, wota wimp.
Happy holidays to you too. Looks like its gunna be hot here, 35C+
Rod Speed wrote
[Note: Due to topic drift and article length, I've
deleted lots of earlier text; sorry about that, Rod.]
I'd have you publicly flogged if you hadnt enjoyed that so much the last time.
And Germany didn't even have any >chariots<,
when the ancient Greeks and Romans did.
But they ****ed over the Romans very comprehensensively indeed in the Teutoberg Forest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest
Funny how all of those "wogs" were civilized long before the Germans, is it not?
Depends on what you call civilised.
Yes, Germany was very late as a nation state.
Not Japan, today.
Yep, leaves Japan for dead luxury car wise.
Japanese economy models are often superior to German luxury cars.
Oh bullshit.
Mercedes, for example, has an embarrassingly poor reliability
record (and many American vehicles also "leave it for dead").
More drivel.
You're "cherry picking" the areas where the Germans were most advanced.
They blow your silly claim about 'never quite caught up' completely out of the water.
Besides, it was Henry Ford who led the way in automotive mass production methods...
Separate matter entirely to the quality end of the car market.
and the name "Ford" doesn't sound very Teutonic, does it?
Separate matter entirely to your never quite caught up.
Furthermore, Wernher von Braun and his German
mob freely borrowed ideas from Robert Goddard
Oh bullshit.
(an American who became modern rocketry's greatest pioneer).
More bullshit.
WWII's famous "V2" ballistic missle was largely based on Goddard's
writings, which German secret agents obtained from U.S. public libraries!
More bullshit. And the car industry didnt.
Von Braun idolized him; alas, Goddard died of throat cancer, before they could meet.
And von Braun left him for dead on actual rocket technology produced.
What "basics" do you mean?
That line about peasant societys is completely ****ing silly with Germany.
All right, here's something to ponder: In WWII, U.S. industrial
capacity was >10 times< that of Germany and Japan COMBINED.
Thats got nothing to do wiith your previous silly claim about know how.
Please tell me, Rod, how the Germans could've possibly cranked
out more cars than the Americans did, during that era?
Never said they did. I JUST said that the TECHNOLOGY left the yank shit for dead.
Perfected it, at least.
They didnt even do that any better than the krauts did.
Okay, then, >why< did the U.S. leave everybody in the dust?
Because of that industrial capacity. Thats an entirely
separate matter to the TECHNOLOGY being discussed.
Why did Britain need to be bailed out by "Lend Lease"
aid, before the Americans officially entered the war?
Because WW1 had completely crippled them economically and
then that fool Churchill pulled the plug on them economically by
returning to the gold standard at the wrong rate.
Why was Japan's mighty Pacific fleet (and
merchant marine) wiped out by the U.S. Navy,
Because of that industrial capacity difference and because
while they started the war with technology that left much
of the west for dead, particularly with aircraft, they didnt
continue to develop that during the war due to various
resources limitations that they had that the yanks didnt have.
and why couldn't the Germans stop the Normandy Invasion?
Because of that massive discrepency in industrial capacity at that time.
Their TECHNOLOGY left the yanks for dead with tanks
and the V2 etc and even with gas turbine aircraft etc too.
And the krauts system was massively crippled by the fact they
they had been stupid enough to not drive thru to balkan oil fields
and concentrated on Moscow instead. If they had not done that,
they could very easily have won in europe and the US wouldnt
have even gotten involved in the war if it hadnt been for the
terminal stupidity the Japs did with Pearl Harbor.
Technical prowess isn't the only measure of a civilization, regardless.
Corse it isnt and in that respect the krauts left the US for
dead in a great raff of areas with music alone, as you said.
For that matter, on a per capita basis, Scotland has been
more successful than any other place in Britain or Europe.
Have fun listing the scottish car you drive today.
(The Scots leave the Germans for dead, in many ways.)
And in many more ways they dont, most obviously with music and philosophy.
Really?
Yep, one of the more bizarre aspects of Japan. They didnt even with
stuff as primitive as the wheelbarrow, let alone horse drawn vehicles.
Traditionally, it was pretty damned autocratic, by Western standards.
That doesnt make it medieval, just autocratic.
And Bismarck left the rest of the world for dead socialism wise too.
In Europe, particularly.
Nope, its what ensured that the Japs wouldnt be the stupid again
and we wouldnt see another world war a generation later like we
did with Germany after WW1.
(Although, Britain received much more help than Germany did.}
And didnt manage to do anything like as much with it as Germany did.
Oh, so, Herr Bismarck created the first welfare state, did he?
Thats arguable given what the roman catholic church got up to.
But yes, thats true in a nation state sense.
Not exactly a proud moment in European history, I think.
You're completely wrong with education and health care alone.
(His ideas may have set a precedent for Herr
Schicklegrubber's "National Socialist" party, eh?)
Not so much set a precedent as once the country started down that
path with education and health care etc there was no going back on that.
Maybe, ol' Otto was later rolling in his grave, because
of Germany's shame? Death camps, slave labor, etc.
Its far from clear what he would have made of those.
Certainly there was plenty of slave labor in kraut colonys in his time.
He was a Prussian after all.
(German black marks of WWII) are as "medieval" as it gets.
Wrong again, that didnt happen in medieval times. They didnt bother with
death camps, they just butchered people without bothering with camps.
It takes the kraut genious for industrialisation to do that with the jews and slavs.
Japanese, Russians and Germans all had official policies of terror
(mass murder, rape and plunder) in the countries they occupied,
So did the British in South Africa and India and Scotland and Ireland.
and each employed them with shocking relish.
Corse the British never did anything like that in Ireland or post Culloden, eh ?
====
Enough of this bickering, over pretzel peddlers -- happy holidays, Rod! (Santa
Claus should reward you handsomely, for bravely defending his German brothers.)
The bugger wont even talk to me at all, maybe because I have no chimney at all.
I do have a flat roof that should be easy to land the reindeer on, but he never
shows up here, maybe he doesnt like the antenna farm or sunfin, wota wimp.
Happy holidays to you too. Looks like its gunna be hot here, 35C+
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