Poor Webmaster Personal Sites

[Murray]

Showers?

--
Murray
============

What? Webmasters have to take their showers in the basement?

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

Be specific about sites you are referring to. And people you are referring

to. Otherwise, we don't know what you are referring to.

Provide specifics to your criticiism...

And, I would further request you give us your credentials that entitle you

to make these comments.

So we can all learn...

I'm speaking from the eyes of a consumer. I have NO right to comment from a
technical standpoint. All I can tell you is I haven't found one single site
that I like. They seem to be all ... barren. That's the best word that comes
to mind. Poor choice of fonts. Very few graphics. Just an awkward feel when
navigating the sites. Being that Microsoft is the standard, why not mimic
the XP colors and style Microsoft uses? I would think people are more use to
that look and feel. I'm sure my sites suck too but as I'm learning I'm
trying to move in the direction of the "XP/Microsoft look." See
http:/www.brokeragenttraining.com/CMS

BTW I'm also a hypnotherapist so I know from experience people are
predominantly visual and known to respond well to the XP choice of colors.
MS sites seem to invoke a sense of relaxation and trust. Not that I do trust
MS, but their sites give me that sort of feeling.

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[Els]

I'm speaking from the eyes of a consumer. I have NO right to comment from a
technical standpoint. All I can tell you is I haven't found one single site
that I like. They seem to be all ... barren. That's the best word that comes
to mind. Poor choice of fonts. Very few graphics. Just an awkward feel when
navigating the sites.

So far I understand. But then:

Being that Microsoft is the standard,

What standard?

why not mimic the XP colors and style Microsoft uses?

Why mimic anything when you can be original?

I would think people are more use to that look and feel.

Most people were once used to to sit on wooden chairs. Why did we ever
change to cushioned sofas?

I'm sure my sites suck too but as I'm learning I'm
trying to move in the direction of the "XP/Microsoft look." See
http:/www.brokeragenttraining.com/CMS

Yup, looks nice, and indeed very XP. But when I look at that site, I
expect to be able to download Microsoft products. Why don't you offer
them? ;-)

MS sites seem to invoke a sense of relaxation and trust.

If MS would have used bright red and pink for XP and for their sites,
it would have been the bright red and pink that gave you a sense of
trust. (Weird, isn't it? )
I agree that the blue does give a sense of relaxation. I used it on
the latest look on my own site too. But do you really want all sites
on the internet to look blue, relaxed and (micro)soft?

Not that I do trust MS, but their sites give me that sort of feeling.

LOL!

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

You mean they look like your sites - hideous? Isn't this the pot
calling the kettle black?

You need to make your sites much more attractive before you have any
right to criticize others.

But I don't hold myself out to be a web designer. I've been forced to hack
it out myself because I can't find anyone I would hire or even felt they
were good enough to refer business to. I wish I could find someone because a
lot of Realtors I train are asking for websites and some have big bucks to
spend. I've found these SEO guy's are full of it too. They promise to put
your site in the top ten but they can't get their own site anywhere close.

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

You need to make your sites much more attractive before you have any
right to criticize others.

Try http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com/CMS. It's not my template but this is
more what I personally like to see.

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[Fat Sam]

There's something that's been bothering me and I hope it's not taken the
wrong way. Why is it that the Web Designers on these groups have such
amateurish personal (and professional) websites. They sound so knowledgeable
in what they say but most sites look like a 10 year old designed them. Is it
because they're working so hard on other people's sites they neglect their
own? Sort of like the gourmet chef that eats TV dinner when he gets home
from work. I've known some maids and house cleaners whose home's were as
dirty as can be. Is it that sort of syndrome of are these people just full
of it?

In my opinion, you get three distinct kinds of webmaster....

1. CODERS - these guys are masters of their chosen languages, and
specialise in making the *engines* that drive the internet and make it
work. They aren't good with art and aesthetics, but they know how to
make things work.

2. DESIGNERS - these guys are artists. They know what looks good, and
how to create a website that has maximum visual impact. They aren't good
with tricky coding, but they can make a website that makes you say "wow!".

3. JACK OF ALL TRADES - these guys are fairly competent coders and also
have reasonable artistic abilities too. They're by no means an expert in
either, but they know enough about each subject to get by un-aided, and
even take time out to offer help and advice to others.

Number 3 is a very rare beast indeed. There are a few in this newsgroup,
but on the whole, you're probably most likely to meet Number 1 in this
group...
That's not a criticism of anyones skills or abilities. It's just an
observation that great designers rarely make great coders, and great
coders rarely make great designers....

In simple terms, different people have completely different skill-sets...

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

Web design and Web development are two different things. You wouldn't
hire a mechanical engineer to paint a portrait, or an artist to design a
transfer street for an engine test stand, would you? It's pretty rare
for someone to be as good at design as they are at markup and coding,
and vice versa. Most of the good folks who give technical advice in
forums like this are brilliant at markup and scripting. They probably
subcontract designers for their professional work, but don't bother for
their personal sites.

That makes sense. I understand. Thank you.

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

What I'd like to know, upon reading all these posts and who posted them,
why
hasn't the guy replied to anyone? Who was that masked man, a fly by
critic?
Go away!

Don't I get a chance to sleep? Sheesh!

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[William Tasso]

I'm speaking from the eyes of a consumer. I have NO right to comment
from a technical standpoint. All I can tell you is I haven't foundone
single site that I like. They seem to be all ... barren.

The web is largely barren, devoid of content.

That's the best word that comes to mind. Poor choice of fonts.Very few
graphics. Just an awkward feel when
navigating the sites.

Such things are so dependent on user defined settings. You have choices
to make wrt settings on your own workstation.

Being that Microsoft is the standard,

for what?

why not mimic the XP colors and style Microsoft uses?

Ugh - XP is soooo last week - anybody that /is/ anybody is now using WS3
as a workstation. not forgetting the countless millions using
Win98/*n*x/NT4/WinME/mac-os*/OS2/Win95/VMS/Win2k/....

Anyway, back to XP, do you mean XP-standard or XP-Classic?

I would think people are more use to
that look and feel. I'm sure my sites suck too but as I'm learning I'm
trying to move in the direction of the "XP/Microsoft look." See
http:/www.brokeragenttraining.com/CMS

yep - see point #1 above. btw: How many platforms have you checked your
site on? Some of the widgets are os/ua dependent.

There was a sub-set of CSS that was designed to pull styles from the o/s -
can't remember what they are/were, but I think they were given up as a bad
idea.

BTW I'm also a hypnotherapist ...

physician, heal thyself.

 

[William Tasso]

...
do you really want all sites
on the internet to look blue ....

Nooooo more blue web sites

 

[Steve Easton]

Depends upon the "purpose" of the web site.
I know my hobby site is simple. I made it that way intentionally so it would be fairly easy to
understand and navigate.
Also it is just that, a hobby site, and although it averages well over a million hits a year ( for
all pages ) I have yet to make one dime from it.
And, to top it off, it's W3C CSS and HTML compliant, and "accessible."

The real objective ( imho ) of a web designer is to create a web site ( especially one that supposed
to generate income ) that makes a visitor want to "enter" the site and poke around and see what's
available.
Web designers that are more interested in proving they can use every trick in the book on a home
page, or who try to cram too much info into a home page have totally missed the point, and drive
more people away then they entice into continuing.

Sometimes simple is better. Take a look at the most simple but imho the most effective home page on
the internet today:
www.google.com

nuff said.

;-)

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
www.95isalive.com
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Toby Inkster]

2. DESIGNERS - these guys are artists. They know what looks good, and
how to create a website that has maximum visual impact. They aren't good
with tricky coding, but they can make a website that makes you say "wow!".

Although the same site will make you go "Yikes!" if you visit it with a
browser with a slightly different canvas size than the designer's browser.
Or doesn't have Flash installed. Or has Javascript disabled.

;-)

 

[Toby Inkster]

http:/www.brokeragenttraining.com/CMS

Egads! 260KB for one (rather short) page? How did you manage that it?!

 

[Matt Probert]

Once upon a time, far far away Fat Sam

In my opinion, you get three distinct kinds of webmaster....

And then there's #4 Publishers.

People, like myself, who publish electronic material through the WWW.
Not looking to win competitions for design excellence, not looking to
administer or create other people's web sites, just to publish data
that is accessible, not standard, not compatible, not cutting edge,
just accessible!

Matt

 

[Fat Sam]

Once upon a time, far far away Fat Sam



And then there's #4 Publishers.

People, like myself, who publish electronic material through the WWW.
Not looking to win competitions for design excellence, not looking to
administer or create other people's web sites, just to publish data
that is accessible, not standard, not compatible, not cutting edge,
just accessible!

Indeed...My apologies for excluding you mate...
If truth be told, your site is probably one of the best examples of the
porpose for which the internet was originally created....

 

[GreyWyvern]

Being that Microsoft is the standard,

Fatal Error: Undefined index "standard" in array "Microsoft" on line 20

Grey

 

[Linda R]

Although the same site will make you go "Yikes!" if you visit it with a
browser with a slightly different canvas size than the designer's browser.
Or doesn't have Flash installed. Or has Javascript disabled.

Now be nice. The right designer, coder combinations can make WOW
sites that are functional too.

 

[GreyWyvern]

Try http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com/CMS. It's not my template but
this is more what I personally like to see.

"I've been browsing the web for a while, and have come to the conclusion
that all websites suck... except mine. I mean, just look at it! It's so
keen! It looks like you're in some kind of XP window! I bet none of you
have even the sheer number of brain cells required to come up with an idea
like that! Everytime I look in the mirror I can't believe how awesome I
am!"

Go home, Seamus.

Grey

 

[GreyWyvern]

your site is probably one of the best examples of the porpose for which
the internet was originally created....

How very Zen. The web was created for porpoises... fantastic!

Grey

 

[William Tasso]

Now be nice.

Toby? one of the nicest guys you'll meet on usenet

The right designer, coder combinations can make WOW sites that are
functional too.

No argument there - it's a left-brain/right-brain thing. Now, where did I
leave the other half?