Please help me with scanning Velvia 100f on Canoscan FS4000 with Vuescan.

[VelviaSmooth]

Hi
I have a huge pile of Velvia 100f (250+ films!) to scan using a
CanoScan FS4000, Vuescan and Mac OSX.

I am getting terrible results - shadow detail is way too dark...mid
tones become shadows...saturation is lost...horrible red cast. Frankly
I end up with something that looks like a low-res, lo quality neg scan
rather than Velvia - I lose all of the qualities of shooting Velvia /
Slide Film.

I have spent 3 days trying all manner of combination of settings and
still nothing that I would call a good scan.

Wondering if anyone has had success on scanning Velvia on this scanner
& set up and could pass me any tips or settings advice.

Thanks for any help - I am getting desperate!

R

 

[bmoag]

This is an old scanner but can handle reasonably exposed Velvia and
Kodachrome.
My first suggestion would be to try the Canon software with no
adjustments/no color management and look at the results in Photoshop.
If you have a slide that is reasonably balanced, that is an image that
yields a nice bell shaped histogram, with minimal levels adjustments on
either side of the histogram you should get a decent result. Not necessarily
the best result but a reasonably good ball park scan.
The reason I mention color management is that an overall pink/red scan can
indicate you are using color management more than once in your workflow.
I am in the minority of users of Vuescan in that I have found it problematic
with my old Canon scanner: usually good with transparencies but unuseable
with negative materials. Despite its many tweaks Vuescan has never been
entirely reliable for me either.
It is not clear if you have scanned velveeta before and gotten the high
saturation/contrast/punch image straight out of the scanner with Vuescan. In
my experience it will require judicious use of curves/saturation/vibrancy
controls to achieve that look. Again my preference is to do that after the
scan rather than get data out of the scanner that has already been
significantly tweaked by any scanning program.
Regardless, 250 scans on the Canoscan is going to take a long time.

 

[AAvK]

Have you tried;

The scanner you have goes to dmax of 4.2 if you use 48 bit color depth,
which is fantastic. That level of dmax should give a much better result
than 24 bit and 3.4 dmax, both capabilities is what your scanner can do.

My cheapo Acer only does 3.2 dmax and it is really hard to get a decent scan
from a slide unless it is very bright and colorful. Does a bit more decently
with negatives, but slides are of a thicker density than negs, hence your
problem. The capability of higher dmax is what relates to the capability
of scanning denser film, so I suggest 48 bit, which increases dmax in your
particular scanner.

Just go "wild card" with settings as well, if needed.

 

[Andrey Tarasevich]

I have a huge pile of Velvia 100f (250+ films!) to scan using a
CanoScan FS4000, Vuescan and Mac OSX.

I am getting terrible results - shadow detail is way too dark...mid
tones become shadows...saturation is lost...horrible red cast. Frankly
I end up with something that looks like a low-res, lo quality neg scan
rather than Velvia - I lose all of the qualities of shooting Velvia /
Slide Film.
...

I'm scanning Provia and Astia with FS4000 and Vuescan without any problems. I'm
using Windows though.

In a case like yours I'd try to find what is actually causing the problem - the
scanner itself, the scanning software, the film or something else. You are
specifically referring to Velvia - does that mean that you are somehow getting
normal results with other films? It might also make sense to try alternative
scanning software - FilmGet, for example - and see what happens in that case.

 

[Roger S.]

I have the same scanner and have used it extensively over the last few
years with Vuescan. For 250 rolls I'd get rid of it and get the Nikon
5000 which will give you a *way* more straightfoward workflow. I just
had five" trouble" slides scanned on the LS-5000 for comparison, and
while I was able to get similar results with the Canon, it took me way
more work. A DSLR is looking better every day.

Suggestion 1: use the latest Vuescan version 8.3.74 or newer. This
fixed many of the annoying bugs plaguing the previous versiosn
(cropping, IR, etc). The only thing not working is autofocus, but it
should be fixed soon.
Filmget gives good color and FARE normal works well, but it seems to
clip highlight detail in well-exposed slides and is unusable for not
well exposed slides

Suggestion 2: buy a Wolf Faust target for your film.

Suggestion 3: download the free program Scarse which does a very good
job making film profiles, and profile the slide at exp= 1 and exp =2.
Scan at exp 2 unless you have some very light areas in your scan which
get blown out. This makes a difference. Set IR to 2 as well if you
use the okay IR cleaning. If you need help configuring it I can post
the command line I use (just change the file names for your system).

Suggestion 4: set output to a 48 bit TIFF, on the color tab balance to
none, output color space to device RGB and don't set an ICC profile.
Assign the right profile (Scarse exp 1 or exp 2) in Photoshop and
convert to your working space (Ektaspace is great if you're going to
stay in 16-bit, Adobe RGB is smaller but another good choice).

This will yield good results for most slides. However, underexposed or
high contrast (dark scene with bright highlights) scenes on Velvia 50
and Provia 100F in my experience do not scan acceptably with one pass.
Lightening the shadows just introduces noise and the color intensity
isn't adequate.

For these I recommend downloading Photomatix and doing 2 scans with
cropping set to "maximum" (output to Adobe RGB or Ektaspace as you
won't be assigning a scanner profile). Scan once at exp 2 and again at
4 or 5 and do the average 2 images feature which works fine on the free
version. This will give you scans that are almost the equal of the
LS-5000 in terms of color and sharpness and the equal for noise (no
noise).

I don't recommend Velvia. Sensia or Provia scans much better with this
scanner.

Good luck!
Roger

 

[VelviaSmooth]

Gentlemen
Thank you all for your help and taking the time to reply.
I have printed out all of your messages and am off to try all of your
ideas and suggestions
(Except buying a Nikon scanner! Trust me I would love one, but dont
have a spare £800 at the moment!).

With all of those thoughts I reckon there must be a solution in there.

Thanks once again

Rob

 

[Roger S.]

Sure, good luck.

A LS-50 will give you similar results to the 5000 except you don't get
the multiscanning to reduce shadow noise and it won't take a bulk slide
feeder.
After a few dozen scans with the FS4000, you'll probably wish you had a
faster scanner. I do hope you have 250 slides and not rolls of slides.


I also recommend digitalslides.net (located in the states) which does
30 slides for a bit over $30 with the LS-5000. The quality was
excellent and turnaround was quick.
Come back if you get stuck.

Roger

 

[bmoag]

Again: the reason to try the Canon software is that if you cannot get a
decent scan with either Vuescan or Canonscan then there may be something
wrong with your scanner.

 

[Roger S.]

True, but the problems pointed out (magenta cast, etc) are more
consistent with someone who hasn't mastered Vuescan than with a scanner
hardware failure. Ditto for the comment of not being able to scan negs
with Vuescan and this scanner.

A few recent neg scans from me (indoor ones Natura 1600) with Vuescan
and the FS4000US:
http://www.jingai.com/photography/

 

[VelviaSmooth]

Again: the reason to try the Canon software is that if you cannot get a
decent scan with either Vuescan or Canonscan then there may be something
wrong with your scanner.

Totally understand this - I have tried some of the problem slides with
both VueScan and the Canon "FilmGet" software and results are slightly
better with the Canon Software, but still not good.

I have found out that Velvia on this scanner is yough because the
Dynamic Range of the scanne ris low - lower than Velvia itself so I am
always going to struggle.

There is a way to bring out the shadow details by increasing the
birghtness of the lamp - but this of course bloews the
highlights...so...the way to do it is do to scans - one for the shadows
and one for the highlights and combine in Photoshop - major chore!

Basically as I am a big fan of Velvia, I think it is time to upgrade to
a scanner with a better dynamic range...as soon as I can afford it!

Damn...

 

[VelviaSmooth]

Again: the reason to try the Canon software is that if you cannot get a
decent scan with either Vuescan or Canonscan then there may be something
wrong with your scanner.

Totally understand this - I have tried some of the problem slides with
both VueScan and the Canon "FilmGet" software and results are slightly
better with the Canon Software, but still not good.

I have found out that Velvia on this scanner is yough because the
Dynamic Range of the scanner is low - lower than Velvia itself so I am
always going to struggle.

There is a way to bring out the shadow details by increasing the
birghtness of the lamp - but this of course blows the
highlights...so...the way to do it is do to scans - one for the shadows
and one for the highlights and combine in Photoshop - major chore!

Basically as I am a big fan of Velvia, I think it is time to upgrade to
a scanner with a better dynamic range...as soon as I can afford it!

Damn...

 

[VelviaSmooth]

True, but the problems pointed out (magenta cast, etc) are more
consistent with someone who hasn't mastered Vuescan than with a scanner
hardware failure. Ditto for the comment of not being able to scan negs
with Vuescan and this scanner.

A few recent neg scans from me (indoor ones Natura 1600) with Vuescan
and the FS4000US:
http://www.jingai.com/photography/

This is also true...

Nice scans on display - fyi I get great scans of my neg stuff as well -
no probs there. It is only slide that is an issue - at the moment my
pics on Reala look better, sharper and more saturated than
Velvia...kind shows how big the problem is eh?!
Basically Velvia film is denser, the dynamic range is bigger and the
scanner simply cant handle it.
Great scanner for neg, rubbish for slide is the basic opinion I have
found on it most places - wish I had know all this a year ago when I
bought it as I am about 80% slide shooter...def gonna upgrade to a
second hand KM or a Nikon.

 

[Roger S.]

Did you miss the bottom of my first post? If you scan twice in Vuescan
with cropping set to Maximum, you can automagically combine the scans
using the free version of Photomatix. When I get a chance I'll post a
comparison I did with the LS-5000 at 4x multisampling. The Canon file
is *almost* as good in every respect (including flare, where it
outperforms the Nikon). The Nikon has a slight resolution edge and ICE
works more effectively with the Nikon, but at the expense of sharpness.
The benefit of the Nikon is that you get a better result much faster
with less user effort.

 

[Stewart]

I no longer have a Canon FS4000 (upgraded to a medium format scanner)
but when I did I got good results with Velvia and Vuescan. There was
however a bit of a learning curve.

An earlier poster's suggestion to get an IT8 target and profile it is a
good one. Another is to buy an 18% grey card, photograph it, scan the
results and right-click on the grey area. Then save the resulting settings.