B
Bob
What's the diff? Advantages, disadvantages?
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M
measekite
Pigmented inks have greater longevity but clog easier. Dye inks look
better and are more vibrant but do not last as long. I am talking about
OEM only.
better and are more vibrant but do not last as long. I am talking about
OEM only.
J
Jan Alter
I can't give you all the disadvantages to using Durabrite but I'll name the
key one that says avoid anything with the Durabrite name
Durabrite inks mean a quick head clog unless you print very very regularly
with your printer. Once the clog forms it will be just about impossible to
remove. One of the downfalls of this ink is that it uses a form of resin in
it to help it dry faster; and it does just that. Unfortunately it seems to
clog the insides of the printer head too.
My experience so far in the past year is one C-84 completely clogged
and unresponsive to underhead cleaning with Windex or several applications
of the same with a syringe, and three other C84's with partial color or
black clogs that will not unclog despite numerous cleanings and applications
of "Epson cleaning solution" that I purchased with the dream that it would
make a difference. It made none.
You will have a much better chance of avoiding this type of problem using
a dye based ink, which is less prone to clogging. I've got more than 50
Epson 740 and 880 printers that use dye based ink and they are easy to clear
a clog in comparison.
What I should mention is that I do have one C-84 that has been running
clog-free for almost two years now in one teacher's classroom. The thing is
that this teacher prints daily with hers. She goes through ink cartridges at
least monthly and obviously gives the thing a workout. Anything less though
and one is asking for trouble. Oh yeh, and these are all 3rd party inks from
the same company Inktec.
key one that says avoid anything with the Durabrite name
Durabrite inks mean a quick head clog unless you print very very regularly
with your printer. Once the clog forms it will be just about impossible to
remove. One of the downfalls of this ink is that it uses a form of resin in
it to help it dry faster; and it does just that. Unfortunately it seems to
clog the insides of the printer head too.
My experience so far in the past year is one C-84 completely clogged
and unresponsive to underhead cleaning with Windex or several applications
of the same with a syringe, and three other C84's with partial color or
black clogs that will not unclog despite numerous cleanings and applications
of "Epson cleaning solution" that I purchased with the dream that it would
make a difference. It made none.
You will have a much better chance of avoiding this type of problem using
a dye based ink, which is less prone to clogging. I've got more than 50
Epson 740 and 880 printers that use dye based ink and they are easy to clear
a clog in comparison.
What I should mention is that I do have one C-84 that has been running
clog-free for almost two years now in one teacher's classroom. The thing is
that this teacher prints daily with hers. She goes through ink cartridges at
least monthly and obviously gives the thing a workout. Anything less though
and one is asking for trouble. Oh yeh, and these are all 3rd party inks from
the same company Inktec.
R
rjpalace
I have a cx5400 that uses Durabrite inks. If you use the Epson
Durabrite paper, than the prints are as good as any other printer. I
use both Epson and after market inks and see not problem with either. I
had what i thought was a jet clog one time, but i had run out of ink,
but the printer was telling me i had 7% more ink. Replacing the cart.
solved that problem, The best thing i like about Durabrite ink and
paper, is that it is 100 per cent waterproff. I run off a print that i
did not like that well and as a test i soaked it in water for at least
ten minutes. No ink run. Photos look great. My 2 cents.
Richard
Durabrite paper, than the prints are as good as any other printer. I
use both Epson and after market inks and see not problem with either. I
had what i thought was a jet clog one time, but i had run out of ink,
but the printer was telling me i had 7% more ink. Replacing the cart.
solved that problem, The best thing i like about Durabrite ink and
paper, is that it is 100 per cent waterproff. I run off a print that i
did not like that well and as a test i soaked it in water for at least
ten minutes. No ink run. Photos look great. My 2 cents.
Richard
M
measekite
THAT FIGURESJan said:I can't give you all the disadvantages to using Durabrite but I'll name the
key one that says avoid anything with the Durabrite name
Durabrite inks mean a quick head clog unless you print very very regularly
with your printer. Once the clog forms it will be just about impossible to
remove. One of the downfalls of this ink is that it uses a form of resin in
it to help it dry faster; and it does just that. Unfortunately it seems to
clog the insides of the printer head too.
My experience so far in the past year is one C-84 completely clogged
and unresponsive to underhead cleaning with Windex or several applications
of the same with a syringe, and three other C84's with partial color or
black clogs that will not unclog despite numerous cleanings and applications
of "Epson cleaning solution" that I purchased with the dream that it would
make a difference. It made none.
You will have a much better chance of avoiding this type of problem using
a dye based ink, which is less prone to clogging. I've got more than 50
Epson 740 and 880 printers that use dye based ink and they are easy to clear
a clog in comparison.
What I should mention is that I do have one C-84 that has been running
clog-free for almost two years now in one teacher's classroom. The thing is
that this teacher prints daily with hers. She goes through ink cartridges at
least monthly and obviously gives the thing a workout. Anything less though
and one is asking for trouble. Oh yeh, and these are all 3rd party inks from
the same company Inktec.
F
Fenrir Enterprises
I have a cx5400 that uses Durabrite inks. If you use the Epson
Durabrite paper, than the prints are as good as any other printer. I
use both Epson and after market inks and see not problem with either. I
had what i thought was a jet clog one time, but i had run out of ink,
but the printer was telling me i had 7% more ink. Replacing the cart.
solved that problem, The best thing i like about Durabrite ink and
paper, is that it is 100 per cent waterproff. I run off a print that i
did not like that well and as a test i soaked it in water for at least
ten minutes. No ink run. Photos look great. My 2 cents.
Richard
Which DuraBrite ink does this one use? I was considering the Epson C88
(which uses the Ultra ones, with the chair as the box picture) for
business printing but I was severely un-impressed by the text quality
on plain paper (huge amounts of feathering) by one of the all-in-ones
(CX4800, I think) that uses the same ink, even though their website
boasts that the pigment ink feathers very little even on plain paper.
This could simply be that the demo model was in bad condition, or that
the sample they use for the demo page is, data-wise, a giant photo
with medium resolution, rather than a text and graphics document. How
well does yours handle text/graphics printing? Also, have you ever
tried the HP Presentation Paper (which claims to be universally
compatible) with it?
---
http://www.FenrirOnline.com
Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.
R
rjpalace
I replaced the empty cart. with an after market cart from Abacus24.com.
Good company to do business with.
Richard
Good company to do business with.
Richard
R
rjpalace
The Durabrite inks in the cx5400 are:
TO32120 Black
TO42220 Cyan
TO42320 Magenta
TO42420 Yellow
I only use the Durabrite paper for prints and plain white paper for
everything else.
Richard
TO32120 Black
TO42220 Cyan
TO42320 Magenta
TO42420 Yellow
I only use the Durabrite paper for prints and plain white paper for
everything else.
Richard
B
Bob
On 12 Jan 2006 13:00:04 -0800, "(e-mail address removed)" <[email protected]>
wrote:
So would it be a good idea to convert to using dye based (cheaper?)
inks in non-Epson refill sets instead of pigmented if your use of the
printer is lighter ?
Thanks,
wrote:
So would it be a good idea to convert to using dye based (cheaper?)
inks in non-Epson refill sets instead of pigmented if your use of the
printer is lighter ?
Thanks,
A
Arthur Entlich
Durabrite inks are one of Epson's two basic pigment ink sets. I say
basic because there are numerous variations of numbers of colors, and
even the surface they dry with (matte or semi-gloss or high gloss).
Durabrite inks come in two sets, 4 color, which is the more common, and
6 color (used in the 2000P, a 13" wide printer). The 4 color Durabrite
inks also came in a number of versions. The current ones have a resin
binder in all 4 colors, the earlier ones lacked this in the black ink.
Pigment colorant inks (Durabrite or Ultrachrome) use pigments rather
than dye to make the colors. Pigments are considerably larger than the
dye molecules, since they are made of very small granules of color.
They do not stick to smooth surfaces well without the binder. Dye inks
are made of colors that exist on the molecular level. They are very
small. They dissolve into the rest of the ink base (a bit like tea or
sugar does in water), while the pigments are a suspension (like mixing
mud into water). The former will not separate or precipitate out as the
later will over time.
It is harder to make pigments bright, because the particles are large
and opaque. However, dyes tend to be more fugitive (will fade more
easily) because they tend to be very small and transparent transmitting
that UV fad. Dye inks usually require very specialized paper and even
the ink brand to have good longevity, while pigment inks can be nearly
equally
Dye inks penetrate pretty much any paper surface (to lesser and greater
degrees of success) pigment inks tend to sit on top more, and can be
vulnerable to scratching.
Each has their place in printing.
basic because there are numerous variations of numbers of colors, and
even the surface they dry with (matte or semi-gloss or high gloss).
Durabrite inks come in two sets, 4 color, which is the more common, and
6 color (used in the 2000P, a 13" wide printer). The 4 color Durabrite
inks also came in a number of versions. The current ones have a resin
binder in all 4 colors, the earlier ones lacked this in the black ink.
Pigment colorant inks (Durabrite or Ultrachrome) use pigments rather
than dye to make the colors. Pigments are considerably larger than the
dye molecules, since they are made of very small granules of color.
They do not stick to smooth surfaces well without the binder. Dye inks
are made of colors that exist on the molecular level. They are very
small. They dissolve into the rest of the ink base (a bit like tea or
sugar does in water), while the pigments are a suspension (like mixing
mud into water). The former will not separate or precipitate out as the
later will over time.
It is harder to make pigments bright, because the particles are large
and opaque. However, dyes tend to be more fugitive (will fade more
easily) because they tend to be very small and transparent transmitting
that UV fad. Dye inks usually require very specialized paper and even
the ink brand to have good longevity, while pigment inks can be nearly
equally
Dye inks penetrate pretty much any paper surface (to lesser and greater
degrees of success) pigment inks tend to sit on top more, and can be
vulnerable to scratching.
Each has their place in printing.
J
Jan Alter
So, say one has a C-84 or C-86, or C-88 that Epson sells with Durabrite inks
(pigment base). Can one substitue dye-base inks and expect to get good
prints? It would seem that the software is set for the pigment-base and lots
of changes would need to be adjusted. However, the strongest reason for
change, from my point of view, is that there would be less tendancy for
clogging going to dye-base ink, if it's at all possible. And if it is
possible are there any companies that sell dye-based ink for these printers?
I'm asking here with the hopes that it's feasible, as I still have a
dozen unopened C84's sitting under a table in my room for use at school, and
I've had nothing but problems with most of these printers eventually
clogging up through less than everyday use.
(pigment base). Can one substitue dye-base inks and expect to get good
prints? It would seem that the software is set for the pigment-base and lots
of changes would need to be adjusted. However, the strongest reason for
change, from my point of view, is that there would be less tendancy for
clogging going to dye-base ink, if it's at all possible. And if it is
possible are there any companies that sell dye-based ink for these printers?
I'm asking here with the hopes that it's feasible, as I still have a
dozen unopened C84's sitting under a table in my room for use at school, and
I've had nothing but problems with most of these printers eventually
clogging up through less than everyday use.
M
measekite
WHY DO THAT WHEN YOU COULD BUY A CANON, USE OEM CANON INK, AND NOT HAVEJan said:So, say one has a C-84 or C-86, or C-88 that Epson sells with Durabrite inks
(pigment base). Can one substitue dye-base inks and expect to get good
prints?
PROBLEMS LIKE THIS.
F
Fred McKenzie
So, say one has a C-84 or C-86, or C-88 that Epson sells with Durabrite inks
(pigment base). Can one substitue dye-base inks and expect to get good
prints? It would seem that the software is set for the pigment-base and lots
of changes would need to be adjusted. However, the strongest reason for
change, from my point of view, is that there would be less tendancy for
clogging going to dye-base ink, if it's at all possible. And if it is
possible are there any companies that sell dye-based ink for these printers?
Jan-
You have far more experience than most with these printers. Do you have
as much experience with other inkjets than Epson? Do you know for a fact
that non-pigment printers have significantly less trouble?
It seems to me that ANY inkjet printer will tend to clog when used in your
environment. One serious problem is that power gets turned off to the
printer without going through the printer's power-off process, and you
have no control over this.
The solution is obvious. Do not use inkjet printers. Use Laser
printers. I realize you may not have any control over this either, but if
it could be implemented, a system of color laser printers might turn out
to be more cost effective than continuing to use inkjets.
By connecting a number of computers to each Ethernet printer, you might
need fewer. Toner may be more expensive than ink cartridges, but for five
or ten times the cost, you can print a hundred times as many prints from a
set of toner cartridges. Laser printers may have their own set of
problems, but clogged jets isn't one of them!
Fred
B
Bob
WHY DO THAT WHEN YOU COULD BUY A CANON, USE OEM CANON INK, AND NOT HAVE
PROBLEMS LIKE THIS.
You apparently missed the part of his post below where he mentioned
that he has a dozen Epson's unopened.
FWIW - I had a Canon. With infrequent use, it was clogged every time I
went to use it.
M
measekite
Fred said:So, say one has a C-84 or C-86, or C-88 that Epson sells with Durabrite inks
(pigment base). Can one substitue dye-base inks and expect to get good
prints? It would seem that the software is set for the pigment-base and lots
of changes would need to be adjusted. However, the strongest reason for
change, from my point of view, is that there would be less tendancy for
clogging going to dye-base ink, if it's at all possible. And if it is
possible are there any companies that sell dye-based ink for these printers?
Jan-
You have far more experience than most with these printers. Do you have
as much experience with other inkjets than Epson? Do you know for a fact
that non-pigment printers have significantly less trouble?
[/QUOTE]
That is common knowledge
R
rafe b
Fred McKenzie wrote:
That is common knowledge
But common knowledge does not apply to any
specific case. Global warming is real, but there
will be many more cold days this winter, and
many cold years over the next century.
I'm back into the Epson world, this time with a
pigment ink printer. I'll let you know how it goes.
rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com
J
Jan Alter
I'm dealing with an elementary school situation where photography, text and
color go together. Kids respond better in this type of environment even if a
laser printer were more cost effective. Teachers like to be able to print in
color, especially when its shots of their students doing an activity.
As I've said I don't have trouble with the 50 Epson 740 and 880 printers.
As a matter of fact the 740 printers are now 7 years old and I've lost only
a few of them, but none due to head clogs. I still have all fourteen 880
printers running just fine. Both of these models use dye inks. The 880 model
is probably 4 years old at this point. Both of these models are real
workhorses and I get third party inks for them at a cost of $7 for a set of
color and black. Additionally they do very decent pictures as well as text.
For the most part having each teacher have their own printer has been the
best way to go.
It would be helpful for me to hear if there is any possibility to using
or not using dye base inks in the rest of those C-84 printers. I had written
to MIS a month ago and they suggested that I simply print a purge pattern
each day on the machines to avoid clogging. If I depend on teachers doing
that I'm simply begging in the wind.
Hmm, instead of fretting about it I probably should just get them out and
let them clog, be done with it and buy a few Canons at this point,
color go together. Kids respond better in this type of environment even if a
laser printer were more cost effective. Teachers like to be able to print in
color, especially when its shots of their students doing an activity.
As I've said I don't have trouble with the 50 Epson 740 and 880 printers.
As a matter of fact the 740 printers are now 7 years old and I've lost only
a few of them, but none due to head clogs. I still have all fourteen 880
printers running just fine. Both of these models use dye inks. The 880 model
is probably 4 years old at this point. Both of these models are real
workhorses and I get third party inks for them at a cost of $7 for a set of
color and black. Additionally they do very decent pictures as well as text.
For the most part having each teacher have their own printer has been the
best way to go.
It would be helpful for me to hear if there is any possibility to using
or not using dye base inks in the rest of those C-84 printers. I had written
to MIS a month ago and they suggested that I simply print a purge pattern
each day on the machines to avoid clogging. If I depend on teachers doing
that I'm simply begging in the wind.
Hmm, instead of fretting about it I probably should just get them out and
let them clog, be done with it and buy a few Canons at this point,
F
Fred McKenzie
"Jan Alter" <[email protected]> said:Hmm, instead of fretting about it I probably should just get them out and
let them clog, be done with it and buy a few Canons at this point,
Jan-
Your purge pattern is in the same category as getting them to turn the
printers off before turning off a main power switch.
I have not heard of companies specifically selling non-OEM cartridges that
have dye-based ink, for use in printers designed for pigment-based ink.
You should search the web and contact some of the suppliers. They may
have tried it and can tell you if it is feasible. If they will sell them,
you can try them on a sample basis to see how the photos look.
Back to the idea of laser printers, do you really need glossy photos to be
printed? Color prints on plain paper from a color laser printer, can look
fairly good. Using better paper, they may equal some made on an inkjet
using matte photo paper. It depends on what the prints are to be used
for. For the uses you listed, a color laser printer would be quite
adequate.
Your current stock of printers will last quite a while longer. If you
have any say in what printers are purchased in the future, why not include
one color laser printer to see how it goes. Lower price models are
becoming available, and reports on their quality are sounding good.
Fred
J
Jan Alter
Hi Fred,
Classrooms don't particularly need to have glossy prints to be
fulfilling, just decent matte color shots will do and the ability to churn
out some color posters to advertise work that kids have accomplished. I'm
pretty ignorant of color lasers at this point, but maybe it's time to look
at them. Having a central location in the building where the printer sits
and it being sent is alright too since our school is networked, though it
might be a drag for some folks to change their convenience patterns for
always having a printer in their own room.
I will endeavor to search out the possibility of using the dye-base
inks. No responses yet to the question, but that doesn't mean it isn't a
possiblity.
Thanks,
Classrooms don't particularly need to have glossy prints to be
fulfilling, just decent matte color shots will do and the ability to churn
out some color posters to advertise work that kids have accomplished. I'm
pretty ignorant of color lasers at this point, but maybe it's time to look
at them. Having a central location in the building where the printer sits
and it being sent is alright too since our school is networked, though it
might be a drag for some folks to change their convenience patterns for
always having a printer in their own room.
I will endeavor to search out the possibility of using the dye-base
inks. No responses yet to the question, but that doesn't mean it isn't a
possiblity.
Thanks,
A
Arthur Entlich
I suppose the question that comes up is why someone would buy a printer
that is designed for Pigment inks and then convert it to dye ink, when
there are equally inexpensive dye printers on the market.
I suppose (answering my own question) it is true that Epson no longer
makes 4 color dye ink printers (at least, I don't believe they do), so
if one is after that, a Durabrite ink printer might be a reasonable
solution converted to dye inks.
If, however, you find a 6 color dye ink printer a reasonable idea, then
you can buy an inexpensive one (the R220, as an example). It also
allows for printing CDs. I don't know if Epson is still producing any
dye All-in-one models, however.
Art
that is designed for Pigment inks and then convert it to dye ink, when
there are equally inexpensive dye printers on the market.
I suppose (answering my own question) it is true that Epson no longer
makes 4 color dye ink printers (at least, I don't believe they do), so
if one is after that, a Durabrite ink printer might be a reasonable
solution converted to dye inks.
If, however, you find a 6 color dye ink printer a reasonable idea, then
you can buy an inexpensive one (the R220, as an example). It also
allows for printing CDs. I don't know if Epson is still producing any
dye All-in-one models, however.
Art
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