partitions

R

RoS

I have a newly installed Win XP SP2 on a 10gig partition of a new machine.
I'm no longer certain how many partitions to create in the remaining 100+gbs
of HD. Opinion ranges from 3 to 5 in total. I had thought of making
another 10G partition for a second copy of the OS in case everything goes
pear shaped on C at some future date, a partition for apps, one for games
and a big one for digital photos. I'm using Photoshop, inexpertly, and need
to save several copies of large image files at various stages of
manipulation.

I've read more than once that 'C' should also contain 'critical apps'. Who
he? Office and Photoshop are pretty critical apps to me but I cannot
imagine that they are to a computer system per se. Does it refer to things
like virus checkers? And should they be on 'C' or with the other apps?
Is there any advantage in using Partition Magic 8 over XP's built in tool to
create and format the rest of the hard drives?
I assume that two 'users' on the computer doesn't affect the partition
situation?

RoS
 
K

Kelly

True that! Doesn't matter who, but don't do it. Glad you brought that up.
Would comment on the rest, but as this is strictly according to how one uses
their system, there isn't a per se' guideline. I have been using a
comfortable method of over five years between four operating systems,
flawlessly. Again, this has to do with personal preference.

Good luck!

In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol: http://www.dts-l.org/

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
 
C

Curt

I would use PM8 to increase C: to at least 20-25GB and install nothing but
the OS on it, (but as you probably already know other programs will load
some files to C: by default). For applications, I would make D: at least
15GB. From there the choice is yours as to how large to divide the rest of
the space for your various storage needs. The optical drives would be at the
end of the alphabet, Y and Z for example.

PM8 is great if you've already created partitions and want resize them, but
be sure to backup any critical data beforehand. If you've only created C:,
XP's disk management tool will do nicely to create and format as many
partitions as you like.

Curt.
 
L

Lester Stiefel

Kelly said:
True that! Doesn't matter who, but don't do it. Glad you brought that up.
Would comment on the rest, but as this is strictly according to how one uses
their system, there isn't a per se' guideline. I have been using a
comfortable method of over five years between four operating systems,
flawlessly. Again, this has to do with personal preference.

Good luck!

In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol: http://www.dts-l.org/

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com


A HUGE mistake. Who told you to make your basic C: partition so small?
After some trial and error, I decided to adopt using a
minimum of 15GB Partition size for OS & Applications. Text
Type data is set to 5 or 6 GB (Primary); 30 GB for Audio; 30
Gig for Video; 17 Gig for Pictures (On a secondary drive of
77 GB).
btw, I also use a older /slower drive from the Protege
series WD. Data I use Caviar 7200RPM. The OS drive runs
slower rate data exchange also. I minimize the errors this
way, but exchange this for longer boot/load time.
 
G

Gerry Cornell

Plato

Does it matter? With Partition Magic the size can be changed easily
anytime the user wants it a little larger ( or smaller).


--


Regards.

Gerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
G

Gerry Cornell

Curt

Waste of disk space. As you yourself have pointed it's easy to resize if
needed using Partition Magic.

--


Regards.

Gerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
G

Gerry Cornell

Is the Disk formatted as FAT32 or NTFS? Keep programmes so far as
possible out of the system folder. Separate data files from programme
files. Partition Magic is much preferred to the Windows XP tools.

The number of users only means you have more My Documents folders these
can be easily relocated to a data partition.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Using invalid email address

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please tell the newsgroup how any
suggested solution worked for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
K

Ken Blake

In
RoS said:
I have a newly installed Win XP SP2 on a 10gig partition of a
new
machine. I'm no longer certain how many partitions to create in
the
remaining 100+gbs of HD. Opinion ranges from 3 to 5 in total.


Then you haven't gotten enough opinions. There are also those who
will tell you shouldn't have more than a single partition, and
others who will suggest two. ;-)

I'm not going to take any stand for any particular number of
partitions, because a lot depends on personal preference, how you
use your computer, and how you back it up. But I'll make several
comments below, and suggest some things to think about.

I had
thought of making another 10G partition for a second copy of
the OS
in case everything goes pear shaped on C at some future date,


If you mean that you will treat this second copy as your backup,
in my view you'd be making a serious mistake. Backup to a second
partition on your only hard drive is better than no backup at
all, but just barely. It leaves you susceptible to simultaneous
loss of the original and backup to many of the most common
dangers: head crashes, severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer.

However you partition, be sure you put in place a good backup
scheme that protects you against a wide variety of dangers. To
me, you can't do that unless you have external backup media.

a
partition for apps,


Why? What do you see as the benefit of doing this? Some people do
this because they think that if they ever have to reinstall their
operating system cleanly, they will still have their installed
apps and won't have to reinstall tem. However that's not correct.
If you reinstall Windows, you have to reinstall your apps. That's
because almost all apps include many references to them within
Windows, in the registry and elsewhere. If Windows goes, those
refernces go with it and the apps won't run.

one for games


Again, why? What I said above about apps applies equally to
games. Moreover, games are just a special kind of apps. What's
the point of separating the two?

and a big one for digital photos.


If you separate anything at all, it probably should be data.
Depending on how you do your backups separating data and the
operating system may be useful. And digital photos are just a
special kind of data. What's the advantage of separating the two
kinds of data into partitions, rather than fodlers?

Remember that whenever you make two folders on a single
partition, you are creating a logical separation between them.
Partitions are another kind of logical separation, and one that's
harder to change. Before you make a separation that's harder to
change, be sure you have a good reason for it. Very often two
folders work just as well as two partitions.

I'm using Photoshop, inexpertly, and need to save several
copies of
large image files at various stages of manipulation.

I've read more than once that 'C' should also contain 'critical
apps'. Who he?


As I said above, as far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to
ever separate the Windows partition and your apps. So my answer
to your question is that *all* apps are critical from this point
of view.

Office and Photoshop are pretty critical apps to me
but I cannot imagine that they are to a computer system per se.
Does
it refer to things like virus checkers? And should they be on
'C' or
with the other apps?
Is there any advantage in using Partition Magic 8 over XP's
built in
tool to create and format the rest of the hard drives?


No. Partition Magic, or any similar third-party tool, has
essentially only a single advantage: it lets you change the
partition structure of the drive non-destructively. If you are
creating that structure, rather than changing it, such tools are
completely unnecessary. Do a good job of thinking out your needs
ahead of time, and you will probably never need such a tool.

I assume that two 'users' on the computer doesn't affect the
partition
situation?


It might. Think about how you're going to backup those two users'
data. If backup were done as two separate asynchronous acts,
having a separate data partition for each might be valuable.

I've asked a bunch of questions above, and also suggested what I
see as the answers to them. But my intent is not to tell you how
to partition your drive, but to get you to think carefully about
the issues. I may be wrong, but as I read your questions, it
appears to me that your tentative plans aren't based on any real
thinking about the underlying issues that affect *why* you may
want to separate one thing from another. Don't separate two
things just because you can, or because somebody else tells
that's the way he does it, but only if there's a good reason for
it in *your* situation.

So don't just accept my answers, but determine the answers that
are best for you in your situation. My answers may be right for
me, but wrong for you because your circumstances might be
different in ways I know nothing about.
 
C

Curt

Waste of space? As with most things, it all comes down to personal
preference. Personally, I always use 2 40GB physical HD's. One for the OS
and applications, the second for storage. I understand the appeal of having
1 large 100+GB HD because of the low prices now-a-days and creating
partitions on that drive. However, should one have a catastrophic drive
failure all is lost if backups are not performed on a regular basis.
 
S

Shenan Stanley

RoS said:
I have a newly installed Win XP SP2 on a 10gig partition of a new
machine. I'm no longer certain how many partitions to create in the
remaining 100+gbs of HD. Opinion ranges from 3 to 5 in total. I had
thought of making another 10G partition for a second copy of
the OS in case everything goes pear shaped on C at some future
date, a partition for apps, one for games
and a big one for digital photos. I'm using Photoshop,
inexpertly, and need to save several copies of large image files at
various stages of manipulation.
I've read more than once that 'C' should also contain 'critical
apps'. Who he? Office and Photoshop are pretty critical apps to me
but I cannot imagine that they are to a computer system per se.
Does it refer to things like virus checkers? And should they be on
'C' or with the other apps? Is there any advantage in using
Partition Magic 8 over XP's built in tool to create and format the
rest of the hard drives?
I assume that two 'users' on the computer doesn't affect the
partition situation?
I would use PM8 to increase C: to at least 20-25GB and install
nothing but the OS on it, (but as you probably already know other
programs will load some files to C: by default). For applications,
I would make D: at least 15GB. From there the choice is yours as to
how large to divide the rest of the space for your various storage
needs. The optical drives would be at the end of the alphabet, Y
and Z for example.
PM8 is great if you've already created partitions and want resize
them, but be sure to backup any critical data beforehand. If you've
only created C:, XP's disk management tool will do nicely to create
and format as many partitions as you like.

Gerry said:
Waste of disk space. As you yourself have pointed it's easy to
resize if needed using Partition Magic.
Waste of space? As with most things, it all comes down to personal
preference. Personally, I always use 2 40GB physical HD's. One for
the OS and applications, the second for storage. I understand the
appeal of having 1 large 100+GB HD because of the low prices
now-a-days and creating partitions on that drive. However, should one
have a catastrophic drive failure all is lost if backups are not
performed on a regular basis.

Personally - I think you will better benefit from purchasing another
100-400GB hard drive and expanding the C:\ drive to take up the entire 100GB
(using NTFS) for the system and applications. Then put all your work on the
D:\ drive and synchronize (however often you like and just the parts you
want) with a folder on the C:\ drive. This gives you two copies of, for
example, finished work - while giving you maximum amount of workspace on D:\
and then you are not using your C:\ drive for data - just "Finished Work"
backup - which you could then burn to DVD/Tape/etc.

Another option would be to expand that 10GB C:\ partition to 20 GB or so.
Use that for the OS and all applications. Use the rest for Data storage.
Trust me - a system with enough installed and such can start to take up that
amount of space. And people who use it often save to My Documents or on the
desktop - taking up space quick. If something goes wrong, you can erase the
first partition and reinstall - after you copy the user data to the other
partition. I think you would still benefit from a second drive more - but
this is in case you cannot afford it.

I personally have never seen the point in having too many partitions. Used
to be the recommendation to put your OS on one, applications on one and data
onto another. Problems with that.. OS goes dead - reinstall.. Okay - sure
D and E are unaffected, but you are still going to have to REINSTALL most of
the applications that are already sitting on D, worthless because their
registry values and system32 dlls are gone from the fresh install. You
aren't gaining any performance benefit. Unless you have SCSI, you are
either reading or writing to the physical hard drive - no matter how many
partitions you have - at any given time. Cannot do both at the same time.
So, you have to wait for your read on C to finish before your write on D can
start. And if the physical hard drive goes south (it happens - just called
in a replacement this morning) - then you have lost all partitions. Chances
of two drives going dead in a system are much less than a single drive going
out in a system.

On most of my systems (personal) I have a 30-80GB drive devoted to one
partition of OS/Applications. I then have a RAID (IDE/SATA) setup for my
secondary drive - or 'working' drive. For one of my systems I have two
RAIDs, one for the OS/Applications, one for Data. RAIDs can increase disk
performance - so my bootup and some system activities are a few milliseconds
faster - maybe. hah On another I have my 40GB Boot drive and two 220GB
(2each 120GB) RAID arrays where the first RAID array is mirrored onto the
second for critical data.

There are all sorts of configurations you could try - but you have to decide
what is important to you. Fast boot times? Critical data storage? Fast
data retrieval? Ability to reinstall in an hour? What do you need to be
able to do? What combination of things seem reasonable to you? What can
you afford?
 
G

Gerry Cornell

Curt

Where did you put your pagefile?

--


Regards.

Gerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
R

RoS

Still thinking about all the above information as well as reading other
sites/forums.

So what's a page file then, and is it necessary/desirable/just a pain the b?

RoS
 
T

Tim Slattery

RoS said:
Still thinking about all the above information as well as reading other
sites/forums.

So what's a page file then, and is it necessary/desirable/just a pain the b?

The paging file is part of the virtual memory system. Parts of memory
that are not being actively used, but cannot be forgotten, are written
to the paging file. When a program decides that it needs that memory,
it's brought back in to RAM. All this is handled by the OS, it's
invisible to the user (you) and to the program.

The paging file is *very* necessary. XP will work very poorly without
it.
 
R

RoS

Well an awful lot of people actually. Many of the authors of the 'How to'
sites brought up by Google see nothing wrong in an OS partition of 5-10GBs.
someone called B Gates quotes a far smaller size as the minimum requirement.
'A HUGE mistake' doesn't really advance the discussion any.
RoS
 
R

RoS

Those numbers and sizes sound reasonable. Fact is I've learned from bitter
experience that what seems huge at the time of purchase rapidly becomes
miniscule X years on. As drive prices have become so low it seemed to be
stupid not to build in some redundancy and take advantage of some really
good deals on well regarded components - among which were the Hitachi 160
SATA drives! I've found regular backing up of data and a complete reformat
every 12-15 months and and reinstallation of apps has been an acceptable
modus vivendi over the years and if several partitions can in any way reduce
the defrag chore, I'll be happy!

RoS
 
R

RoS

The most important thing is to get Photoshop up and running at a speed which
doesn't have me wondering the number of angels on a pinhead thing.
Admittedly my former system wasn't really up to Photoshop but I want mega
increases in every aspect of it - processing images, finding them, opening
them - everything!
RoS
 
G

Gerry Cornell

If you are using Partition Magic v8 the size does not matter as it is
not set in stone. If you are limited to using the Microsoft tools then
it is a different matter. From your first post I thought you said you
had Partition Magic. Did I misinterpret that message?

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Using invalid email address

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please tell the newsgroup how any
suggested solution worked for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
D

David R. Norton MVP

Well an awful lot of people actually. Many of the authors of the
'How to' sites brought up by Google see nothing wrong in an OS
partition of 5-10GBs. someone called B Gates quotes a far smaller
size as the minimum requirement. 'A HUGE mistake' doesn't really
advance the discussion any. RoS

I wouldn't call it a huge mistake but I do think you might want the OS
partition to be a bit bigger. If you have Partition Magic or Partition
Commander it doesn't much matter as you can change the partition size
if you need to later but I still think I'd start with at least 12GB*.

FWIW, I have used 6GB on my primary partition but I've recently had a
harddrive die and I've not installed everything yet, I'll use more than
12GB when I do.

*As always, YMMV.
 

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