Partition Magic question

[casey.o]

I've mentioned using Partition Magic 8 (PM8) in several of my posts
recently. I was told more than once that it's an old program. PM8 was
made for Win95 thru XP, so it works for every OS I use. My reason for
posting this, is to ask if PM is no longer made? I've had this for
years, and have gotten a lot of use out of it. It's easy to use too.

 

[BillW50]

In (e-mail address removed) typed:

I've mentioned using Partition Magic 8 (PM8) in several of my posts
recently. I was told more than once that it's an old program. PM8
was made for Win95 thru XP, so it works for every OS I use. My
reason for posting this, is to ask if PM is no longer made? I've had
this for years, and have gotten a lot of use out of it. It's easy to
use too.

I know there is some that say it is an old program and all. But I
disagree with those that say you shouldn't use it. While I don't use it
anymore, I probably still have v3, 5, 6 and 8 around. And it won't
bother me using it even on Windows 8 partitions. It won't understand BCD
(Boot Configuration Data) of Vista, 7, or 8, but I could easily fix that
anyway.

Here is what happened to Partition Magic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_Magic

 

[casey.o]

PM was badly reviewed once Symantec bought it.
It was said that they'd reduced it to a backup program.
I know that Symantec ruined AtGuard firewall and
Quarterdeck Clean Sweep once they got their hands
on them. And personally I'd say they ruined Norton AV,
though it took them a bit longer.
So I would say never buy *anything* from Symantec.
They buy good products, increasethe marketing, increase
the bloat, reduce the functionality, and increase the price.

I switched to BootIt several years ago, when my copy
of PM couldn't handle NTFS. BootIt is $35, but it does
just about anything you can think of with disks and
booting. It also fits on a floppy.

There's a free one called Macrium, but I know nothing
about it. I've just seen it recommended on newsgroups.

That's weird, I have not had any problems using PM8 on NTFS.

I also have an old copy of the dos based Norton Ghost 7.5, but PM8 is
more complete and works well for me.

I didn't know that Symantec bought it, but it figures that Symantec
ruined it. I DONT buy any of their software. I did quit using Norton
AV years ago, when they got their filthy hands on it. I think it's a
shame what they have done to much of the good old software. I bet PM
would have continued on and been more suitable for newer versions of
Windows. In some ways, it dont make much sense for Symantec to buy it.
and then kill it...... Whats the point?
In all honesty, I think Symantec MAKES viruses, so they can sell their
AV garbage.

Didn't Symantec also kill the old Pc-Tools? I used that for Dos and
Win3.x and loved it.

Unfortunately, Norton Ghost IS from Symantec. Probably why I dont care
for it too much. I dont know if they still sell that thing or not.

As a comment, people like to say stuff against MS, but I'd trust MS
before I'd do any business with Symantec, and also Adobe. Those two
companies have been instramental in ruining a lot of software, and
making overly bloated garbage at a much too high price.

 

[Mayayana]

PM was badly reviewed once Symantec bought it.
It was said that they'd reduced it to a backup program.
I know that Symantec ruined AtGuard firewall and
Quarterdeck Clean Sweep once they got their hands
on them. And personally I'd say they ruined Norton AV,
though it took them a bit longer.
So I would say never buy *anything* from Symantec.
They buy good products, increasethe marketing, increase
the bloat, reduce the functionality, and increase the price.

I switched to BootIt several years ago, when my copy
of PM couldn't handle NTFS. BootIt is $35, but it does
just about anything you can think of with disks and
booting. It also fits on a floppy.

There's a free one called Macrium, but I know nothing
about it. I've just seen it recommended on newsgroups.


| I've mentioned using Partition Magic 8 (PM8) in several of my posts
| recently. I was told more than once that it's an old program. PM8 was
| made for Win95 thru XP, so it works for every OS I use. My reason for
| posting this, is to ask if PM is no longer made? I've had this for
| years, and have gotten a lot of use out of it. It's easy to use too.
|

 

[Mayayana]

| That's weird, I have not had any problems using PM8 on NTFS.
|

I don't remember the version I had. It might have been
4 or 5. I just remember that when I finally decided to
go from Win98 to XP, I needed to upgrade and Symantec
had bought PM by then.

There's another case with Acronis True Image. I don't
know who owns the company, but they're very slick. I
don't think there's much TI could do that BootIt doesn't do,
but apparently it's more user-friendly. From the description
it seems to be mostly just a disk image backup program.
I think it started out at $100, if I remember correctly. But
it caught on fast. A quick search just now shows that it
currently sells for $50 and the install is 269MB! BootIt still
fits on a floppy.

| In some ways, it dont make much sense for Symantec to buy it.
| and then kill it...... Whats the point?

They're very good with the marketing. There seem to
be a lot of people still using Norton because it came
with their PC as a trial version.

When they bought AtGuard they bloated it, ruined it
by setting over 700 different files as exempt from
firewall blocking, then doubled the price and renamed it.
But it sold well. It was the Symantec version of
a firewall just when firewall software was starting
to catch on. And with most software exempt from
blocking, people must have thought it was very
smooth and easy to use.
I don't know what happened to that program. Maybe
it was pushed aside by the free Zone Alarm. In any case,
AtGuard is still the best firewall I've ever used, but it
only worked on 95/98 before they licensed it to Symantec.

 

[DK]

PM was badly reviewed once Symantec bought it.
It was said that they'd reduced it to a backup program.
I know that Symantec ruined AtGuard firewall and
Quarterdeck Clean Sweep once they got their hands
on them. And personally I'd say they ruined Norton AV,
though it took them a bit longer.
So I would say never buy *anything* from Symantec.
They buy good products, increasethe marketing, increase
the bloat, reduce the functionality, and increase the price.

Is there *anything* that Symantec did not screw up?
I only got to know them through acquisition of Norton
Utilities and they have killed what seems to be scores
of the best PC-housekeeping utilities since.

DK

 

[casey.o]

Version 8 was the latest, and is compatible with XP, although it's a bit
dated (2004). I've used it with XP, although occasionally it has some
issues (like if the partitions have been resized with another program, on
some occasions). Easeus Partition Manager (freebie) is one possible (newer)
replacement, or perhaps even Partition Wizard.

But who really cares about the date. It was made for XP and earlier
windows, and it will always work on XP (and earlier), since XP will no
longer be upgraded. I use other software thats' much older than 2004.
As long as it works, I dont care how old it is. I think PM was one of
the best programs made for its particular use. It's too bad that
Symantec destroyed it. It probably will not work with newer type
Windows, although it may work with newer Linux versions. Since I use
Win98, 2K and XP, it's suits me well.

There is one bug in it, but there is a workaround. To clone a boot
partition, it begins in Windows, reboots and is supposed to continue
from Dos. It writes a bottom line to autoexec.bat. The line says
"CALL=PMAGICBT.EXE. The problem is that it does not add the PATH for
the PM8 directory, so when it gets to dos, it stops, because it cant
find that file. I figured this out, I read the line in autoexec.bat.
Then I type CD C:\PM8. Then just type "pmagicbt" and it runs what it
should. I suppose I could also add that path to autoexec.bat too, but I
never rememeber to do it. Other than that. it works great!

 

[BillW50]

In Bill in Co typed:

Mayayana wrote: [...]

There's another case with Acronis True Image. I don't
know who owns the company, but they're very slick. I
don't think there's much TI could do that BootIt doesn't do,
but apparently it's more user-friendly. From the description
it seems to be mostly just a disk image backup program.
I think it started out at $100, if I remember correctly. But
it caught on fast. A quick search just now shows that it
currently sells for $50 and the install is 269MB! BootIt still
fits on a floppy.

But don't forget you can buy it on it's own bootable CD, too, which is
really handy on occasions. Yes, it is definitely more friendly than
BootIt. But unfortunately, the later versions of ATI have indeed
become more bloated, which seems to be the trend with a LOT of
software, unfortunately.

I've been burned by Acronis True Image many times and I own many
versions of it. Take this machine for example. I could use Acronis True
Image Home 2011 and backup to my USB Samsung Story drives. That part
works perfectly. Now when you want to restore from that backup, ATI
can't see the Samsung drives at all. This bug has been in ATI for 10
years or more. And their support is worthless as well. Some USB drives
work with ATI and some doesn't. No other backup program has this same
problem.

 

[Mayayana]

| > it caught on fast. A quick search just now shows that it
| > currently sells for $50 and the install is 269MB! BootIt still
| > fits on a floppy.
|
| But don't forget you can buy it on it's own bootable CD, too, which is
| really handy on occasions. Yes, it is definitely more friendly than
| BootIt. But unfortunately, the later versions of ATI have indeed become
| more bloated, which seems to be the trend with a LOT of software,
| unfortunately.
|

BootIt also goes onto a CD. That's the way I use it.
The download includes a simple GUI applet to create
a CD ISO.

My sense with ATI is that it's mainly being used by
people who don't understand what they're doing and
just depend on it as an extra backup tool. BootIt
has a sensible and reasonably intuitive GUI with mouse
support that's available from the multi-boot menu when
installed, or from a booted CD or floppy. It's not slick,
but it does the job. I don't think that anyone who knows
how to create partitions and install multiple booting OSs
really needs any more than that.

 

[BillW50]

In DK typed:

Is there *anything* that Symantec did not screw up?
I only got to know them through acquisition of Norton
Utilities and they have killed what seems to be scores
of the best PC-housekeeping utilities since.

Well there was:
MS-DOS 6.x and Windows 9x-systems come with a defragmentation
utility called Defrag. The DOS version is a limited version of
Norton SpeedDisk. The version that came with Windows 9x was
licensed from Symantec Corporation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defragmentation

 

[casey.o]

I'm with you on liking it. It's just that the occasional quirks can
sometimes present an issue. So I still use it, along with BootIt (which can
conveniently boot up on a floppy), and Easeus Partition Manager, depending
on the specific task I'm trying to do, and which computer I'm using. But I
do like the interface of PM8 the best. It's too bad Norton "sold out"
(on this and other products) to Symantec.

It seems that most of the people on this newsgroup are fairly
knowledgable about computers and software, if not very advanced. At the
same time, there seems to be a dislike of Symantec among most of you.
That makes me wonder who buys their crap software? Is all their
marketing geared toward clueless people who buy a computer and never
learn how to fix it, or do anything except run the programs. It would
seem that way, yet, most of the Symantec software is so damn bloated, it
almost requires an expert to make the crap work.

I guess that's why so many people haul their computers to computer
stores and pay big money for repairs, when in most cases there is
nothing wrong with the hardware, it's a problem in the OS or a virus.

The biggest shame of all, is that Symantec buys the BEST software, turns
it into shit, and leaves the consumers with only the second best
alternatives. This is one reason why I'd like to support free and
shareware software more. But to go totally in that way, means using
Linux, and although I tinker with some linux stuff, it's not for the
average "dummy" who just wants a computer to use.

I would not mind paying for Windows, IF MS continued to offer support
for the older stuff, and stopped forcing their bloated crap on us. The
two best OSs they ever made (XP and Win98), are both dead now. I dont
want their new crap! Being rather old, I like SIMPLE software. It's
like some TV commercial where they're trying to push the latest
Smartphone on an old guy, and he says "I just want a plain simple phone,
and nothing more"...... Seems MS dont understand this concept. Most
older people want SIMPLE, while the kids want COMPLICATED.

This kind of reminds me of a portable radio I saw at Walmart. It was
huge, heavy, and had buttons and switches all over it. It would light
up as the music played, and did all sorts of other stuff. However, I'd
hate to have to buy batteries for that thing, or even try to operate it.
All a radio really needs is a volume control with on-off switch, and a
tuner knob. I can operate my car radio while I drive. I'd wreck the
car if I had to try to operate that complicated thing, unless I pulled
over to the shoulder, and read the manual every time I wanted to hear
some music.

There is something wrong with the current state of mind regarding
electronics and cars and most everything. I dont want a toaster with 27
buttons, or a bloated computer, or complicated radio. I dont want to
have to relearn everything I buy. There is more to life than fighting
with complicated devices that were originally said to "Simplify our
lives". Back in the 60's there were commercials that said electricity
makes our lives easier". That surely is no longer true.....

 

[casey.o]

In Bill in Co typed:

Mayayana wrote: [...]

become more bloated, which seems to be the trend with a LOT of
software, unfortunately.

I've been burned by Acronis True Image many times and I own many
versions of it. Take this machine for example. I could use Acronis True
Image Home 2011 and backup to my USB Samsung Story drives. That part
works perfectly. Now when you want to restore from that backup, ATI
can't see the Samsung drives at all. This bug has been in ATI for 10
years or more. And their support is worthless as well. Some USB drives
work with ATI and some doesn't. No other backup program has this same
problem.

I dont use backup software. I just copy my drive to another drive (USB
drive, or other). I got burned back in the Win3.x days when I used some
backup software and backed up to a tape drive. Everything was backed up
into one file. Those tape drives were prone to getting defects. One
defect or bad spot on the tape, caused the whole backup to fail. Not
just one file being unreadable. I have not used backup software since
then.

On all partitions that contain storage of files, you can just COPY the
partition to another media. On the ones that contain SYSTEM files, you
need something like Xxcopy. But this way, all your date is backed up as
individual files. If I accidentally delete "wallpaper.bmp", I can just
copy that file back from my backup.....

 

[Good Guy]

But who really cares about the date. It was made for XP and earlier
windows, and it will always work on XP (and earlier), since XP will no
longer be upgraded.

Only if the hard disk isn't new enough for P-Magic to understand it.

Some old utilities have problems understanding newer drives that are larger than the XP days.

 

[Barry Schwarz]

I've been burned by Acronis True Image many times and I own many
versions of it. Take this machine for example. I could use Acronis True
Image Home 2011 and backup to my USB Samsung Story drives. That part
works perfectly. Now when you want to restore from that backup, ATI
can't see the Samsung drives at all. This bug has been in ATI for 10
years or more. And their support is worthless as well. Some USB drives
work with ATI and some doesn't. No other backup program has this same
problem.

Not trying to make light of that particular problem but it is only one
of so many problems with ATI 2012. And yes, their tech support does
suck at everything except asking for more money.

 

[Paul]

In Bill in Co typed:

Mayayana wrote: [...]

become more bloated, which seems to be the trend with a LOT of
software, unfortunately.

I've been burned by Acronis True Image many times and I own many
versions of it. Take this machine for example. I could use Acronis True
Image Home 2011 and backup to my USB Samsung Story drives. That part
works perfectly. Now when you want to restore from that backup, ATI
can't see the Samsung drives at all. This bug has been in ATI for 10
years or more. And their support is worthless as well. Some USB drives
work with ATI and some doesn't. No other backup program has this same
problem.

I dont use backup software. I just copy my drive to another drive (USB
drive, or other). I got burned back in the Win3.x days when I used some
backup software and backed up to a tape drive. Everything was backed up
into one file. Those tape drives were prone to getting defects. One
defect or bad spot on the tape, caused the whole backup to fail. Not
just one file being unreadable. I have not used backup software since
then.

On all partitions that contain storage of files, you can just COPY the
partition to another media. On the ones that contain SYSTEM files, you
need something like Xxcopy. But this way, all your date is backed up as
individual files. If I accidentally delete "wallpaper.bmp", I can just
copy that file back from my backup.....

You could try cloning with Macrium Reflect Free some time.

(Lower left corner. Do the download at the coffee shop Wifi...)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Paul

 

[Mayayana]

| I'm with you on liking it. It's just that the occasional quirks can
| sometimes present an issue. So I still use it, along with BootIt (which
can
| conveniently boot up on a floppy), and Easeus Partition Manager, depending
| on the specific task I'm trying to do, and which computer I'm using.

You have at least 3 disk management/disk imaging
programs? Why do you need all those? Won't any
one of them do what you want?

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

It seems that most of the people on this newsgroup are fairly
knowledgable about computers and software, if not very advanced. At the
same time, there seems to be a dislike of Symantec among most of you.

I'm one of those who dislike Symantec (although "dislike" might be too
weak a word).

That makes me wonder who buys their crap software? Is all their
marketing geared toward clueless people who buy a computer and never
learn how to fix it, or do anything except run the programs. It would
seem that way, yet, most of the Symantec software is so damn bloated, it
almost requires an expert to make the crap work.

They advertise a lot. You more you advertise something, the more you
sell.

All kinds of crap all over the world is sold by advertising, not just
software.

The biggest shame of all, is that Symantec buys the BEST software, turns
it into shit,

Yes


and leaves the consumers with only the second best
alternatives.

But no. It's far from second best.

 

[Ken Springer]

In Bill in Co typed:

Mayayana wrote: [...]

become more bloated, which seems to be the trend with a LOT of
software, unfortunately.

I've been burned by Acronis True Image many times and I own many
versions of it. Take this machine for example. I could use Acronis True
Image Home 2011 and backup to my USB Samsung Story drives. That part
works perfectly. Now when you want to restore from that backup, ATI
can't see the Samsung drives at all. This bug has been in ATI for 10
years or more. And their support is worthless as well. Some USB drives
work with ATI and some doesn't. No other backup program has this same
problem.

I dont use backup software. I just copy my drive to another drive (USB
drive, or other). I got burned back in the Win3.x days when I used some
backup software and backed up to a tape drive. Everything was backed up
into one file. Those tape drives were prone to getting defects. One
defect or bad spot on the tape, caused the whole backup to fail. Not
just one file being unreadable. I have not used backup software since
then.

On all partitions that contain storage of files, you can just COPY the
partition to another media. On the ones that contain SYSTEM files, you
need something like Xxcopy. But this way, all your date is backed up as
individual files. If I accidentally delete "wallpaper.bmp", I can just
copy that file back from my backup.....

If you're not too far along with the XP machine, you could experiment
with different programs to see if they actually work. That's what I did
with the first Win7 machine I had in my hands.

After installing the OS and updating it, I used the Win7 programs and
tested the system image function. When it worked, then installed all
the software, and created a new system image. It worked. Then I knew I
could experiment all I wanted, and have a means of restoring the OS and
software install I could depend on.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

 

[DK]

Not trying to make light of that particular problem but it is only one
of so many problems with ATI 2012. And yes, their tech support does
suck at everything except asking for more money.

Last decent version of ATI is v.13 (aka 2010). That's what I stick
with. Only use their Linux version, too (aka Rescue disk), booting
from USB stick. Version 9 was much better but it never worked with
SATA drives properly, so I am now forced to use 13.

DK

 

[Ken Springer]

It seems that most of the people on this newsgroup are fairly
knowledgable about computers and software, if not very advanced. At the
same time, there seems to be a dislike of Symantec among most of you.
That makes me wonder who buys their crap software? Is all their
marketing geared toward clueless people who buy a computer and never
learn how to fix it, or do anything except run the programs. It would
seem that way, yet, most of the Symantec software is so damn bloated, it
almost requires an expert to make the crap work.

I guess that's why so many people haul their computers to computer
stores and pay big money for repairs, when in most cases there is
nothing wrong with the hardware, it's a problem in the OS or a virus.

The biggest shame of all, is that Symantec buys the BEST software, turns
it into shit, and leaves the consumers with only the second best
alternatives. This is one reason why I'd like to support free and
shareware software more. But to go totally in that way, means using
Linux, and although I tinker with some linux stuff, it's not for the
average "dummy" who just wants a computer to use.

I would not mind paying for Windows, IF MS continued to offer support
for the older stuff, and stopped forcing their bloated crap on us. The
two best OSs they ever made (XP and Win98), are both dead now. I dont
want their new crap! Being rather old, I like SIMPLE software. It's
like some TV commercial where they're trying to push the latest
Smartphone on an old guy, and he says "I just want a plain simple phone,
and nothing more"...... Seems MS dont understand this concept. Most
older people want SIMPLE, while the kids want COMPLICATED.

I agree, casey, but this simple truth is, what we want won't make MS a
single dime. And they need to make money to stay in business.

You can still find simple software, but it won't be from MS, Adobe, or
any of the "name brands". All you can do is look for the simplest
software out there, and hope you don't need to have to have some kind of
interaction with the name brand file formats.

And think about it, it's no different than if you had a 15 year old TV,
where do you get that fixed? Or, in my case, a 19 year old car, 1995.
I went to AutoZone to get them to plug into it to see why the engine
service light was on. It turns out they changed the computer diagnostic
system in 1996, and AutoZone did not have a tester for it. So I have to
buy my own tester.

No matter the product, old stuff eventually has no support except from
specialty places.

This kind of reminds me of a portable radio I saw at Walmart. It was
huge, heavy, and had buttons and switches all over it. It would light
up as the music played, and did all sorts of other stuff. However, I'd
hate to have to buy batteries for that thing, or even try to operate it.
All a radio really needs is a volume control with on-off switch, and a
tuner knob. I can operate my car radio while I drive. I'd wreck the
car if I had to try to operate that complicated thing, unless I pulled
over to the shoulder, and read the manual every time I wanted to hear
some music.

There is something wrong with the current state of mind regarding
electronics and cars and most everything. I dont want a toaster with 27
buttons, or a bloated computer, or complicated radio. I dont want to
have to relearn everything I buy. There is more to life than fighting
with complicated devices that were originally said to "Simplify our
lives". Back in the 60's there were commercials that said electricity
makes our lives easier". That surely is no longer true.....

You and I don't want that stuff, but for each of us, there's probably
10,000 or more people that do. If you were building those toasters for
sale, who would you build for?

Electricity still makes our lives easier, it's the equipment that's changed.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"