Only 2 Days left to get REALbasic 5.5 for FREE!

J

Jim Hubbard

Cor Ligthert said:
Jim,

I asked you last week if you had already time to look at visual.studio
Net?

Any advantance because I got the idea you had only look 5 hours to it.

Cor

I haven't given it the full evaluation that it deserves yet. With testing
Microsoft alternatives, I just haven't had the time.

To be honest with you, I am not in a terrible hurry to do so. IMHO,
Microsoft has abandoned me along with classic Visual Basic. They have
forced me to rewrite hundreds of thousands of lines of code if I want to
move to VB.Net. They are breaking backwards compatibility with their
development tools and user tools (like Office).

The thought of placing my faith, hard work and hundreds of thousands of line
of code into the hands of a company like that really scares me. What
happens when they decide to break backwards comp with .Net? How many times
do you want to rewrite working code? How many times do you want to re-learn
programming because they chose to kill off the biggest (in terms of number
of developers and lines of code) development language in the world? If they
will do this to the largest base of developers in the world, there is no
limit to what they will do to the other developers.

Along with the benefits of having the largest pool of developers in the
world comes an equally large responsibility to act in the best interest of
those developers and the companies that have adopted that platform.
Microsoft has not acted in the best interest of those classic Visual Basic
developers or in the best interest of the millions of small businesses that
rely on their classic Visual Basic codebase.

So, how much time should I devote to a new Microsoft technology?

In the best interest of my customers, I will test it fully when the end
product is delivered. However, at this time, I believe it is in the best
interest of my customers to fully evaluate alternatives to Microsoft
products.

Could Microsoft change my mind? Yep....in a split second. All they have to
do is bring unmanaged Visual Basic code into Visual Studio .Net just like
they did for C++.

Will they? I doubt it. They are too big, too powerful and too
self-absorbed at this time to bother with little people like me.

After all, I'm only a customer.

Jim Hubbard
 
C

Cor Ligthert

Jim,

I only can say, don't forever keep it with only selling T Ford parts. At a
certain moment people want more advantage ones and only some collectors will
be your customers.

It gives as well much more value on your words when you can proof about what
you are talking.

Just my thought,

Cor
 
P

Paul Clement

¤ > ¤ > ¤ Just so you don't miss the deadline!
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ > ¤ Get it here......http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY
¤ > .
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ > ¤ Jim Hubbard
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ > Hasn't someone already mentioned to you that this is considered spam?
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ > Paul
¤ > ¤ > ~~~~
¤ > ¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ I thought it was considered spam only if it was an advertisement to sell
¤ > ¤ something. This is free.
¤ >
¤ > No, there is no discrimination. It would also be considered off-topic.
¤ >
¤ > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
¤ >
¤ >
¤ > Paul
¤ > ~~~~
¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤
¤ Microsoft has chosen to abandon classic Visual Basic 6, the users of it and
¤ the BILLIONS of lines of code written and maintained with it.
¤
¤ These abandoned users need to do something with their classic Visual Basic
¤ code. I am trying to help them save most of their investment without
¤ placing themselves in the unfortunate position of being at the "mercy" of a
¤ company who has (a) abandoned them and (b) has chosen the intentional
¤ breaking of backwards compatibility (not just with classic Visual Basic) as
¤ a business model.
¤
¤ This is very much on topic. If you are such a Microsoft groupie that you
¤ can't see that, add me to your killfile list and move on.

You're posting to .NET groups. They have nothing to do with REALBasic.

It's advertisement and solicitation which is documented in the Rules of Conduct for the Microsoft
newsgroups.

It's your choice. You can continue to abuse the newsgroups and make excuses for your behavior or you
can show some consideration for the rest of the folks and stick with the subjects that are discussed
here.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
J

Jim Hubbard

Paul Clement said:
¤ > ¤ > ¤ Just so you don't miss the deadline!
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ > ¤ Get it
here......http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY
¤ > .
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ > ¤ Jim Hubbard
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ > Hasn't someone already mentioned to you that this is considered
spam?
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ > Paul
¤ > ¤ > ~~~~
¤ > ¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ I thought it was considered spam only if it was an advertisement to
sell
¤ > ¤ something. This is free.
¤ >
¤ > No, there is no discrimination. It would also be considered off-topic.
¤ >
¤ >
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
¤ >
¤ >
¤ > Paul
¤ > ~~~~
¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤
¤ Microsoft has chosen to abandon classic Visual Basic 6, the users of it
and
¤ the BILLIONS of lines of code written and maintained with it.
¤
¤ These abandoned users need to do something with their classic Visual
Basic
¤ code. I am trying to help them save most of their investment without
¤ placing themselves in the unfortunate position of being at the "mercy"
of a
¤ company who has (a) abandoned them and (b) has chosen the intentional
¤ breaking of backwards compatibility (not just with classic Visual Basic)
as
¤ a business model.
¤
¤ This is very much on topic. If you are such a Microsoft groupie that
you
¤ can't see that, add me to your killfile list and move on.

You're posting to .NET groups. They have nothing to do with REALBasic.

It's advertisement and solicitation which is documented in the Rules of
Conduct for the Microsoft
newsgroups.

It's your choice. You can continue to abuse the newsgroups and make
excuses for your behavior or you
can show some consideration for the rest of the folks and stick with the
subjects that are discussed
here.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

Let's see...... I don't back down from Microsoft.....so your odds of
getting me to back down from helping the abandoned classic Visual Basic
developers are what exactly?

As usual, you have nothing to say that adds to the discussion. I will do
you a favor and add you to my killfile.

You could not support your previous arguments with facts, so now you attack
posting anything that does not endorse Microsoft solutions as being spam.

Although you'd make a good propagandist in the 3rd Reich, you'd make an
awful CIO in any organization. You have to be able to think.

For example..... This is a group where classic Visual Basic people are
likely to be found. Therefore, any news that would be valuable to classic
Visual Basic developers or users is allowed - whether it is pro-Microsoft or
not. Any free offer to classic Visual Basic users definitely falls under
this category.

If they were not interested, these postings would not have contributed to
the 32,000 new downloads of REALbasic since they started. (BTW, this is the
last day to get version 5.5 free -
http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY .)

You are only the 2nd person ever to hit my killfile. It's sad really,
because I enjoy a good debate. Sometimes I teach, always I learn.....except
in the case of people just looking to argue - such as yourself.

As I cannot teach you anything, and you are unwilling to produce any facts
supporting your arguments so that I may learn from you, there is no reason
to waste my time with your postings any longer.

Scream into the night, as I will no longer be listening.

Jim Hubbard
 
H

Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]

Cor,

Cor Ligthert said:
I only can say, don't forever keep it with only selling T Ford parts. At a
certain moment people want more advantage ones and only some collectors
will be your customers.

Nobody is asking Microsoft to abandon .NET. In addition to that, the
advantages of .NET turn into disadvantages for certain types of
applications. VB.NET is another tool for another purpose, it's no result of
an evolutionary process, and thus not a 100 % suitable replacement.
Consequently it's a legitimate standpoint to ask for a real "new version"
that fits the needs of a large group of developers.
 
C

Cor Ligthert

Herfried,
Cor,


Nobody is asking Microsoft to abandon .NET. In addition to that, the
advantages of .NET turn into disadvantages for certain types of
applications. VB.NET is another tool for another purpose, it's no result
of an evolutionary process, and thus not a 100 % suitable replacement.
Consequently it's a legitimate standpoint to ask for a real "new version"
that fits the needs of a large group of developers.
I really do not see the connection from your reply on my reply to Jim. I
have told about VBCom what I found about it and than stopped to be a part of
the discussion. I have nothing to add too that.

My answer was in general to Jim. So maybe can you give me an idea what you
mean when you see directly a connection to VBCom in my answer?

Cor
 
H

Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]

Cor,

Cor Ligthert said:
My answer was in general to Jim. So maybe can you give me an idea what you
mean when you see directly a connection to VBCom in my answer?

You mentioned the IMHO inappropriate Ford T sample again.
 
P

Paul Clement

¤ Let's see...... I don't back down from Microsoft.....so your odds of
¤ getting me to back down from helping the abandoned classic Visual Basic
¤ developers are what exactly?

Well if you need help finding the right newsgroup let me know. Until then, carry on aimlessly. ;-)


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
C

Cor Ligthert

Herfried,
You mentioned the IMHO inappropriate Ford T sample again.

I asked you what the Fort T sample has to do with VBCom. Jim has almost
taken no time to study VBNet because I get the idea that he will only use
RealBasic in future for his new developments. I gave the sample to show him
be on time.

I use the Ford T sample often, however because you are involved in this,
have I as far as I remember me, with the exception that I referenced
somebody who used that, not taken that sample in the VBCom subject, however
probably sail ships and steam ships or to say it better the transport
sample.

Those all are general economic samples by the way so I don't see why I
should not use those.

I really don't understand what you all connect to VBCom, this is a thread
about Realbasic.

Cor
 
J

Jim Hubbard

Cor Ligthert said:
Herfried,


I asked you what the Fort T sample has to do with VBCom. Jim has almost
taken no time to study VBNet

Not true, Cor. I have implemented .Net at three corporations that had never
used the technology (including an app developed for Qwest Communications
that scaled from the projected 5 users to over 2500 simultaneous users with
no problem). I have read most of my 54 book collection on VB.Net and I have
used VB.Net 2003 extensively.

The thing I have not finished evaluating (and will not continue to do so
until it is released) is VB.Net 2005.
because I get the idea that he will only use RealBasic in future for his
new developments.

I will use REALbasic where appropriate. If other technologies are more
appropriate, I will use them.

I am not a language or platform zealot. I will use what is best for my
clients. Right now, I am not sure that it is best for my clients to
continue to be drug around by the scruff of the neck by Microsoft.

As a responsible developer (responsible to my clients) I am looking into
Microsoft alternatives. Linux/REALbasic has some definite advantages and I
think any serious developer should take a look. It's still rough around the
edges, but its getting there.
I gave the sample to show him be on time.

I use the Ford T sample often, however because you are involved in this,
have I as far as I remember me, with the exception that I referenced
somebody who used that, not taken that sample in the VBCom subject,
however probably sail ships and steam ships or to say it better the
transport sample.

Those all are general economic samples by the way so I don't see why I
should not use those.

Because they are not representative of the nature of the change that
Microsoft has in store.

If you insist on using an automobile analogy.....think of classic Visual
Basic as a car factory, and your applications as cars that you create. With
the advent of .Net, Microsoft is changing the roads (the OS on which your
programs run) from smooth asphalt & concrete to new lightwieght plastic
roadways.

The new lightweight plastic roadways will allow for higher highways, longer
bridges and less environmental damage.....all good things. Unfortunately,
your old cars are too heavy to drive on the new plastic roadways. Now, your
classic VB cars will run fine on the old roads, but Microsoft is only
producing the new lightweight roads, will no longer fix any new potholes or
dangerous sections of the older roads and your classic VB factory cannot
make your classic VB cars safe for the new lightweight roads.

At the same time that all of this is happening, Microsoft decides to update
the C++ car factories with big, fat soft tires and a lightweight chassis
that allow C++ cars to continue to run on the new lightweight plastic
highways. They even move the C++ car factory into the new C# factory (where
the new lightweight cars are produced) to allow the C++ cars to continue to
be produced with the fat tires and light chassis needed to extend their
lives while being able to take advantage of the new tools in the C# factory.

When you ask Microsoft to make some room in the C# factory for the classic
Visual Basic factory and to help you make fat tires and a light chassis for
your classic VB cars (to extend their lives also) they simply provide you
with a list of reasons that your classic Visual Basic cars won't run on the
new lightweight roads and a list of all the hurdles to making fat tires and
a light chassis for the classic VB cars.

This doesn't really make sense though.....there are more classic VB cars on
the road than C++ cars. So, why is Microsoft abandoning the classic VB cars
but assisting the C++ car factories in upgrading their vehicles and even
pulling the C++ factory into the new fancy C# factory that will build cars
especially for the new lightweight roads?

A quick look over the fence of the Microsoft parking lot reveals the
answer.....the folks at Microsoft mostly drive C++ cars. That's why they
are assisting the C++ factories and not the classic VB factories.

Sad but true.

Nevermind the fact that millions of classic VB car owners will have to
either do major work to lighten their cars enough to run on the new
lightweight highways or buy a new car. And, the classic VB factories are
being forced to shut down and buy the new VB.Net factories to mass produce
the replacements for the classic VB cars.

This causes great hardship for millions of small businesses and individuals
that depended in their classic VB cars to get to work, and play and take the
kids to school.

But, as long as it helps Microsoft make more money.....it's all
good......right?
I really don't understand what you all connect to VBCom, this is a thread
about Realbasic.

They are both valid alternative to the hell Microsoft has created for the
classic Visual Basic developers.

Jim Hubbard
 
C

Cor Ligthert

Jim,

Than I probably understood you wrong about your knowledge of Net.

I did not use the Car sample in relation to VBCom as I wrote already to
Herfried myself, I only referenced to that in a message by somebody.

The rest of my answer anolog on your methaphor is very simple.

When Microsoft thinks that they can make better new style Trucks for their
news roads than patching up the old ones, than it is their decission. When
they think they can use still their lightweight sportcars on those new
roads, it than it is as well their decission.

When other vendors as Realbasic think that they can sell the old style
trucks and build as well new roads in a better economical way. Than the
future will show what was the best decission.

Cor
 
H

Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]

Cor,

Cor Ligthert said:
I really don't understand what you all connect to VBCom, this is a thread
about Realbasic.

I talked about Classic VB, not VB.COM, which is something very different.
However, Jim talked about Classic VB in this thread, that's why I referred
to it too:

| To be honest with you, I am not in a terrible hurry to
| do so. IMHO, Microsoft has abandoned me along with
| classic Visual Basic.
| [...]
| Could Microsoft change my mind? Yep....in a split second. All they have
to
| do is bring unmanaged Visual Basic code into Visual Studio .Net just like
| they did for C++.
 
J

Jim Hubbard

Cor Ligthert said:
Jim,

Than I probably understood you wrong about your knowledge of Net.

I did not use the Car sample in relation to VBCom as I wrote already to
Herfried myself, I only referenced to that in a message by somebody.

The rest of my answer anolog on your methaphor is very simple.

When Microsoft thinks that they can make better new style Trucks for their
news roads than patching up the old ones, than it is their decission. When
they think they can use still their lightweight sportcars on those new
roads, it than it is as well their decission.

This is very true. It is then up to the consumer to decide whether they
want to drive on only Microsoft roads in Microsoft vehicles when Microsoft
says they can or to try different roads, and different vehicles that they
have more control over.
When other vendors as Realbasic think that they can sell the old style
trucks and build as well new roads in a better economical way. Than the
future will show what was the best decission.

REALbasic factories produce a totally different kind of vehicle (a single
executable as opposed to a framework or DLL dependent vehicle) that will run
on many different kinds of roads (the old Microsoft roads, the new Microsoft
roads, older Mac roads, new Mac roads and even Linux roads). Microsoft cars
are pretty much restricted to Microsoft roads only and are rising in cost.
And Microsoft raises the tolls for the roads whenever they like.....to
whatever they like.

And, while the REALbasic factories are not perfect, the REALbasic factory
builders are small enough that they have to listen to their customers,
whereas Microsoft is not.

Now, all you have to do is decide which car meets your needs best and crank
up the factory that produces those cars. We can, of course, own more than a
single factory. If users of your car will never need to travel on a
non-Microsoft road, and you don't mind buying new cars eveytime Microsoft
says to do so, you may choose a Microsoft factory. If you want to be able
to travel any road, and don't mind that the REALbasic factories are still
being worked on, REALbasic may be good for you.

Personally I think that breaking up the largest car factory builder and road
builder into 2 seperate companies was (and still is) a good idea. Then more
car factories could be built by more companies (because the road builder
would have to give everyone the specs on the roads at the same time instead
of only giving certian specs to is car factory unit) and the consumers would
have more choice and power over where the roads are built, where they go and
what could run on them.

Jim Hubbard
 
P

Paul Clement

¤ I really don't understand what you all connect to VBCom, this is a thread
¤ about Realbasic.
¤
¤ Cor
¤

Cor,

I really think you're wasting your time with Mr. Hubbard. In fact you're
encouraging him to continue posting off-topic content in addition to his rants
concerning Microsoft and VB.NET.

Ignore him and he will go somewhere else for attention.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
C

Cor Ligthert

Paul,

The problem with this is, that although you can be right, does the way he is
writting, give me the idea that he is serious and does bring me in doubt.

For me is the problem that he cannot stop and see when he is beating a dead
horse.

A troll is mostly making very small messages at the end. Jim stays
seriously..

However, maybe have you seen that I mostly only give 1 or 2 answers to him
and than stop.

I was answering a message too Hefried in this case, on what Jim gave me a
reply which gave me the change to state a serious reply about this question.
I could not let that go.

Maybe ,these messages from us to each other, helps Jim to change his style a
little bit when he is serious.

Cor
 
N

NetworkElf

Jim Hubbard said:
If you insist on using an automobile analogy.....think of classic Visual
Basic as a car factory, and your applications as cars that you create. With
the advent of .Net, Microsoft is changing the roads (the OS on which your
programs run) from smooth asphalt & concrete to new lightwieght plastic
roadways.

The new lightweight plastic roadways will allow for higher highways, longer
bridges and less environmental damage.....all good things. Unfortunately,
your old cars are too heavy to drive on the new plastic roadways. Now, your
classic VB cars will run fine on the old roads, but Microsoft is only
producing the new lightweight roads, will no longer fix any new potholes or
dangerous sections of the older roads and your classic VB factory cannot
make your classic VB cars safe for the new lightweight roads.

At the same time that all of this is happening, Microsoft decides to update
the C++ car factories with big, fat soft tires and a lightweight chassis
that allow C++ cars to continue to run on the new lightweight plastic
highways. They even move the C++ car factory into the new C# factory (where
the new lightweight cars are produced) to allow the C++ cars to continue to
be produced with the fat tires and light chassis needed to extend their
lives while being able to take advantage of the new tools in the C# factory.

When you ask Microsoft to make some room in the C# factory for the classic
Visual Basic factory and to help you make fat tires and a light chassis for
your classic VB cars (to extend their lives also) they simply provide you
with a list of reasons that your classic Visual Basic cars won't run on the
new lightweight roads and a list of all the hurdles to making fat tires and
a light chassis for the classic VB cars.

This doesn't really make sense though.....there are more classic VB cars on
the road than C++ cars. So, why is Microsoft abandoning the classic VB cars
but assisting the C++ car factories in upgrading their vehicles and even
pulling the C++ factory into the new fancy C# factory that will build cars
especially for the new lightweight roads?

A quick look over the fence of the Microsoft parking lot reveals the
answer.....the folks at Microsoft mostly drive C++ cars. That's why they
are assisting the C++ factories and not the classic VB factories.

Sad but true.

Nevermind the fact that millions of classic VB car owners will have to
either do major work to lighten their cars enough to run on the new
lightweight highways or buy a new car. And, the classic VB factories are
being forced to shut down and buy the new VB.Net factories to mass produce
the replacements for the classic VB cars.

This causes great hardship for millions of small businesses and individuals
that depended in their classic VB cars to get to work, and play and take the
kids to school.

But, as long as it helps Microsoft make more money.....it's all
good......right?


They are both valid alternative to the hell Microsoft has created for the
classic Visual Basic developers.

Jim Hubbard

I believe that this is possibly one of the most impressive, well though out
analogies that I have ever seen. I've filed a copy for future reference.
 
J

Jim Hubbard

NetworkElf said:
I believe that this is possibly one of the most impressive, well though
out
analogies that I have ever seen. I've filed a copy for future reference.

Thanks. I hope it does lend a little more understanding to what the
Microsoft .Net changes really mean to the ISVs and millions of small
businesses that depended (and still depend) on classic Visual Basic code.

I am definitely not against the new roads.....I'd just like to have a
factory upgrade that makes it possible to upgrade the classic VB cars
without melting down and re-casting each one.

Jim Hubbard
 
N

NetworkElf

Jim Hubbard said:
Thanks. I hope it does lend a little more understanding to what the
Microsoft .Net changes really mean to the ISVs and millions of small
businesses that depended (and still depend) on classic Visual Basic code.

I am definitely not against the new roads.....I'd just like to have a
factory upgrade that makes it possible to upgrade the classic VB cars
without melting down and re-casting each one.

I have been following the conversation with some interest, as I am getting
back to some programming after many years of doing sysadmin duties. From
what I've read, the major issue is one of a lack backwards compatibility to
VB6 code.

I'm curious though, are there other issues with vb.net besides this factor?
Are there other changes that make the product less desirable to experienced
programmers?

Thanks.
 
J

james

NetworkElf said:
I have been following the conversation with some interest, as I am getting
back to some programming after many years of doing sysadmin duties. From
what I've read, the major issue is one of a lack backwards compatibility to
VB6 code.

I'm curious though, are there other issues with vb.net besides this factor?
Are there other changes that make the product less desirable to experienced
programmers?

Thanks.


I think the answer to your question is more related to what your current and future needs are. If you have to maintain a VB6
code base and cannot afford the time to rewrite your application(s) and do not plan to upgrade Operating systems for quite some
time, then VB6 will work just fine.
But, if you are getting back into programming with the intent of more features tied to newer OS's, and more powerful computers,
then VB.NET and whatever comes afterwards, is the only ticket there if you want a VB like programming language. I have been
programming in some form of Basic since the TRS-80. And each move up (for me) was an improvement. And as for the move from VB6
to VB.NET (again, for me,,,,,,,YMMV) it really was/is not all that hard to get my head around. The syntax is so close, in so
many situations, that there is really not that much difference. And those things that are different, can easily be learned. And
there is just so many more useful functions and classes available, that are so easy to use, (once you learn how to use them
properly) that you will wonder how you ever got the same thing done in VB6 (if you could even get it done in VB6 without some
ugly work arounds that would get broke when your user installed something new) .
Since you posted this question in the Ad for Realbasic 5.5, I am assuming you are wondering if it would be wiser to learn RB.
I was one of the people that downloaded the FREE Standard Edition of RB 5.5. Mainly for the cross-platform ( Linux & Mac OS X )
abilities it is supposed to have. Unfortunately, RB Standard does not allow enough time for any serious testing in any OS other
than Windows. In the other two OS's the executables are limited to a 5 minute runtime. (full time run is only available in their
PRO version which is as costly as Visual Studio.NET 2003 PRO in some instances) .
I have a potential client that wants a single application that would run both in Windows XP & Linux. I had originally told him
that was impossible. But, after seeing Jim Hubbard's post about RB, I thought I might have to take that back. But, since I
cannot fully test in Linux with RB, I cannot say with any certainty that anything other than a "Hello world" type of app will
run with little to no problems in Linux as well as Windows XP. Five minutes is just not enough time to test a serious
application.
About the closest thing to a language that may be cross-platform between Windows & Linux, will probably be C#. And that is due
to the Mono Project. They are also implimenting VB.NET in Linux , under Mono as well. But, I have yet to be able to make it
work. But, it is possible that it will eventually work well. The Mono Project is sponsored by Novell. And with their support,
(and the fact that they now include the Mono Files in Suse 9.3) there is a greater chance that Mono will take off in the Linux
world.
So, my whole point was, I don't know if RB is a good replacement for VB6. But, I doubt it. And if your desire is to not only
get back into programming but, make money at it as well, then , I would say go for Visual Basic.NET or C#. I have seen a surge
in ads in my local area for programmers in both languages.
And have yet to see an ad for a Real Basic programmer in my area. ( North Texas)
james
 
A

Aaron Smith

james said:
I think the answer to your question is more related to what your current and future needs are. If you have to maintain a VB6
code base and cannot afford the time to rewrite your application(s) and do not plan to upgrade Operating systems for quite some
time, then VB6 will work just fine.
But, if you are getting back into programming with the intent of more features tied to newer OS's, and more powerful computers,
then VB.NET and whatever comes afterwards, is the only ticket there if you want a VB like programming language. I have been
programming in some form of Basic since the TRS-80. And each move up (for me) was an improvement. And as for the move from VB6
to VB.NET (again, for me,,,,,,,YMMV) it really was/is not all that hard to get my head around. The syntax is so close, in so
many situations, that there is really not that much difference. And those things that are different, can easily be learned. And
there is just so many more useful functions and classes available, that are so easy to use, (once you learn how to use them
properly) that you will wonder how you ever got the same thing done in VB6 (if you could even get it done in VB6 without some
ugly work arounds that would get broke when your user installed something new) .
Since you posted this question in the Ad for Realbasic 5.5, I am assuming you are wondering if it would be wiser to learn RB.
I was one of the people that downloaded the FREE Standard Edition of RB 5.5. Mainly for the cross-platform ( Linux & Mac OS X )
abilities it is supposed to have. Unfortunately, RB Standard does not allow enough time for any serious testing in any OS other
than Windows. In the other two OS's the executables are limited to a 5 minute runtime. (full time run is only available in their
PRO version which is as costly as Visual Studio.NET 2003 PRO in some instances) .
I have a potential client that wants a single application that would run both in Windows XP & Linux. I had originally told him
that was impossible. But, after seeing Jim Hubbard's post about RB, I thought I might have to take that back. But, since I
cannot fully test in Linux with RB, I cannot say with any certainty that anything other than a "Hello world" type of app will
run with little to no problems in Linux as well as Windows XP. Five minutes is just not enough time to test a serious
application.
About the closest thing to a language that may be cross-platform between Windows & Linux, will probably be C#. And that is due
to the Mono Project. They are also implimenting VB.NET in Linux , under Mono as well. But, I have yet to be able to make it
work. But, it is possible that it will eventually work well. The Mono Project is sponsored by Novell. And with their support,
(and the fact that they now include the Mono Files in Suse 9.3) there is a greater chance that Mono will take off in the Linux
world.
So, my whole point was, I don't know if RB is a good replacement for VB6. But, I doubt it. And if your desire is to not only
get back into programming but, make money at it as well, then , I would say go for Visual Basic.NET or C#. I have seen a surge
in ads in my local area for programmers in both languages.
And have yet to see an ad for a Real Basic programmer in my area. ( North Texas)
james

I'd also like to ad that one of the arguments that Mr. Hubbard had was
that VB.Net was no longer a "RAD" and wouldn't be any benefit to "Task
Oriented" developers. In a sense, he was correct in saying that (when
comparing to version 2003). There was no way to make a quick database
aware application in the same time frame that it would take in VB6. I
agree with his statements regarding that. Now, keep in mind, I have only
seen it for 2 days now, and not in very heavy use, but Beta 2 of Visual
Studio 2005 looks like it fixes a lot of that. Like I said, I haven't
had time to sit down and mess with it a lot yet, but from what I have
seen, it's greatly improved in that area. The grid view so far is
excellent, and the ability to just drag and drop your data fields onto a
form just made my day. To some people, that may seem petty. But our one
application has literally hundreds of fields in the database that is
user updateable. Placing a form object and then setting all the
properties with through code or through the properties windows was a
major time waster. Especially when the product we used previously for
this app was one where everything was drag and drop. I will try to get
some more time in this weekend, but we already have decided to convert
our app that was in 2003 over to it immediately. (It won't be officially
released for a at least 6 - 12 months anyway, so we can afford to start
with it and just finish up with the release of studio 2005)

Aaron
 

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