OffTopic - Electricity Usage LCD/fluorescent blubs vs a cheap air con

[John]

I've got a much more expensive air con that's rated higher in energy
efficiency in the living room. I didn't notice any big leaps in my
power bill. Sure the bill was higher but not a huge amount.

I changed my bulbs to fluorescent and didn't notice a huge drop in
power savings either. Then I added a cheapo lower rated air con to my
bedroom and my power bill went up an incredible amount. Sure I run it
a lot but the increase is huge like 30+% !

Could be a coincidence. Maybe the rates were raised recently because
oil is ridiculously high recently and I've read they burn oil for the
power plants here instead of coal.

I've even switched to a digital amplifier for my stereo -- that's
supposed to use less power.

I was thinking of even switching to a LCD PC screen to save power but
none of these things seem to add up to one cheapo air con unless I'm
wrong and there was a spike in power rates which I'm going to check
tomorrow. Next Im going to check if a cheapo air con is far less
energy efficient to the point it even consumes way more energy than a
much more larger air con thats rated at a higher efficiency.

 

[kony]

I've got a much more expensive air con that's rated higher in energy
efficiency in the living room. I didn't notice any big leaps in my
power bill. Sure the bill was higher but not a huge amount.

I changed my bulbs to fluorescent and didn't notice a huge drop in
power savings either. Then I added a cheapo lower rated air con to my
bedroom and my power bill went up an incredible amount. Sure I run it
a lot but the increase is huge like 30+% !

Could be a coincidence. Maybe the rates were raised recently because
oil is ridiculously high recently and I've read they burn oil for the
power plants here instead of coal.

I've even switched to a digital amplifier for my stereo -- that's
supposed to use less power.

I was thinking of even switching to a LCD PC screen to save power but
none of these things seem to add up to one cheapo air con unless I'm
wrong and there was a spike in power rates which I'm going to check
tomorrow. Next Im going to check if a cheapo air con is far less
energy efficient to the point it even consumes way more energy than a
much more larger air con thats rated at a higher efficiency.

A small air conditioner uses less power, but it's relative
to how much smaller it is. There should be energy usage
info in the manual or a sticker that came on it. Also the
manufactuer's website or retailers selling it, should list
the EER rating.

Even so if your outdoor-indoor temp difference is high, the
figures for yearly running cost go up compared to the rating
for the unit, simply because it has to run a higher
percentage of the time. Also if the AC allows more
computers in the room, which create more heat, again the AC
runs longer.

Unit might be too large, a 5000 BTU AC is arguably too big
for a typical-sized bedroom (without lots of (whatever)
devices heating it up) unless it's quite leaky and temp
differential is high. If it's cycling off more than a once
every hour you might see if it's temp sensor can be
relocated and insulated, and/or room air circulation
increased... not increase of external air into the room but
cool air from the AC being moved away from it so the room
temp is equalized thoughout. A ceiling fan is one way to do
this.

 

[Rusty]

Cheap air cond are not so cheap when it comes to energy usage. To make them
cheap allot of the energy efficacy features are removed such as fan cycling
before and after the unit goes off or comes on, poor air flow design across
the coils, poor insulation inside the unit (if any), you catch the drift
here. I have bought cheap window units before an then could not afford to
run them. I currently have one in an enclosed garage that came with the
house I bought that I need to replace. The more expensive units will save
you money on cooling cost in the long run. Look for the energy rating on
the unit and buy the best energy rated unit that you can afford, it will
save you money on down the road on energy cost. Also take a good look at
your bill, the rates are determined based on usage, like taxes, you may have
gone into a high rate bracket. I am not going to tell you the other things
that the electrical company will do to your bill vs. your usage. You would
not believe that it could be legal.

 

[John]

Cheap air cond are not so cheap when it comes to energy usage. To make them
cheap allot of the energy efficacy features are removed such as fan cycling
before and after the unit goes off or comes on, poor air flow design across
the coils, poor insulation inside the unit (if any), you catch the drift
here. I have bought cheap window units before an then could not afford to
run them. I currently have one in an enclosed garage that came with the
house I bought that I need to replace. The more expensive units will save
you money on cooling cost in the long run. Look for the energy rating on
the unit and buy the best energy rated unit that you can afford, it will
save you money on down the road on energy cost. Also take a good look at
your bill, the rates are determined based on usage, like taxes, you may have
gone into a high rate bracket. I am not going to tell you the other things
that the electrical company will do to your bill vs. your usage. You would
not believe that it could be legal.

That would be an eye opener if that is true and I will warn eveyrone
aways from the really cheapo air cons if they are that bad which I
assumed to some degree but THIS bad ???

My $500 Panasonic has a thermostat and cycles on and off and has a
high energy efficiency rating though its rated at 10,000 BTU+ .

I decided to try the CHEAPEST Home depot Hampton bay. These have been
sold as low as $50 ! Not here of course where its always hot - the
lowest price on air cons is around $87 and thats what I paid. It has
an inferior energy rating but only puts out 3000-5000 btu cant
remember which at the moment. It cools great. But it seems to be
sucking power like crazy. If this keeps up and it really is the air
con buying a $200-300 unit if its more efficient would pay for itself
within a year.

I kind of like the idea of going LCD though ha . Would have given me
an excuse to finally buy one.

I guess with TVs going to LCD screens , water heaters - solar heating,
digital amps everywhere, fluorescents, hybrid cars --- the only big
things left are the fridge and air con.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "(e-mail address removed)"

That would be an eye opener if that is true and I will warn eveyrone
aways from the really cheapo air cons if they are that bad which I
assumed to some degree but THIS bad ???

It makes sense... A smaller, less efficient unit will probably take as
much power as a larger more efficient unit, but will run substantially
more of the time in order to maintain the room at the same temperature.

 

[kony]

That would be an eye opener if that is true and I will warn eveyrone
aways from the really cheapo air cons if they are that bad which I
assumed to some degree but THIS bad ???

To a certain extent it would be relative, that if you'd
applied most-conservative practices on other areas of energy
usage, then the AC is of course going to be a higher
percentage of total bill. However, a smaller window unit
isn't likely to have much more than 800W peak power (except
perhaps momentary increase when compressor and fan kicks
on). Your 10,000 BTU model is almost certain to use more
power, perhaps about 50% more even if factoring in it's
higher efficiency, IF both were running same amount of time
which could happen but we can't know this.

My $500 Panasonic has a thermostat and cycles on and off and has a
high energy efficiency rating though its rated at 10,000 BTU+ .

What's it's rating, around 11 or 12? Even the cheap/small
5,000 BTU units are EER rated for about 9.7-10 so here's a
rough estimate:

10,000/12 = 833.33
5,000/9.7 = 515.46

515.46/833.33 = .62

The 5000 BTU AC would use 62% as much power as the 10,000
BTU unit, given same environment (providing room sizes are
proportionatey matched too), unless they completely lied
about the EER rating, but I think the Hampton Bay is a
LG/Goldstar, probably not a company that would fudge on
appliance ratings.

I decided to try the CHEAPEST Home depot Hampton bay. These have been
sold as low as $50 ! Not here of course where its always hot - the
lowest price on air cons is around $87 and thats what I paid. It has
an inferior energy rating but only puts out 3000-5000 btu cant
remember which at the moment. It cools great. But it seems to be
sucking power like crazy. If this keeps up and it really is the air
con buying a $200-300 unit if its more efficient would pay for itself
within a year.

I find it hard to believe a replacement with marginally
higher EER could come close to making up a $300 difference
in even 2 years, unless you move to Southern Hades.

Let's suppose you have a REALLY high energy cost (i have no
idea) like $0.15 per KWH. 5,000 BTU unit running
constantly, 24/7, would cost about $86 per month.
Simple calculator here:
http://www.overgrow.com/tools/powercost.php

Now comparing an AC with an EER of 11 instead of 9.7, it's
9.7/11 = 88 percent as expensive to run
..88 x 86 = $76 cost per month.

So in what seems an absolute worst-case scenario, 24/7 use
with very high energy cost, you'd save $10 per month by
replacement with a unit having EER of 11, providing that
unit is not a higher BTU, which will cycle off more often
and thus have it's efficiency drop. EER rating is of
steady-on state, does not take into account waste due to
compressor initially cooling down the unit each time it
turns on.

Anyway, considering the $200-$300 replacement AC it's going
to take years even in a worst-case scenario to recoup the
cost. For "most" people the higher cost of an higher
efficiency window unit isn't recouped for close to a decade,
UNLESS it has a programmable front panel that allows more
precise control of when the unit runs. Replacing an AC unit
to reap the higher EER made more sense years ago when the
standards were looser and EER for cheap units was lower than
it is now.

 

[YanquiDawg]

Cheap air cond are not so cheap when it comes to energy usage.

Damn right.I live in Southwester Florida and I bought a 6900 BTU ac for my
bedroom. I use this at night instead of my central a/c.
It has a high ee rating over 10.5(can't remember exactly) But my electric
bills dropped abot 15%. Another thing I do is shut off my water heater at
bedtime. It's well insulated and small so it only takes about a half hour to
heat back up in the a.m.Saved another 5%.

 

[John]

Damn right.I live in Southwester Florida and I bought a 6900 BTU ac for my
bedroom. I use this at night instead of my central a/c.
It has a high ee rating over 10.5(can't remember exactly) But my electric
bills dropped abot 15%. Another thing I do is shut off my water heater at
bedtime. It's well insulated and small so it only takes about a half hour to
heat back up in the a.m.Saved another 5%.

Thats another interesting idea. They do say water heaters use a lot of
energy.

 

[kony]

Thats another interesting idea. They do say water heaters use a lot of
energy.

Now you just need to invent a water pre-heat tank to make
the heat from the AC, useful.

 

[John]

Now you just need to invent a water pre-heat tank to make
the heat from the AC, useful.

Thats another interesting idea , use that heat instead of just
wasting it.

I gave the bill a more detailed look instead of just blowing my top
over it. The usage pattern has really been going up steadily since the
summer to the point its crept up to over 30% - yow. Its definely not
totally due to the cheap AC as it was creeping up before then but
there is a kind of spike. Hard to say whats exactly consuming all that
power.

That and a rise in cost per unit explains the rising bill.

I wonder if a CRT HDTV used a heck of lot more power than a regular TV
thats another thing I have to look up.

Great - Im buying a subwoofer too.

One thing. You should see some of the condos of the avg user nowadays.
I have so many things plugged into various room its not even funny and
most of my neighbors are like that too. its like a rats nest of power
cords. Some of those living room installations I see - I shudder to
have to break that down and untangle all the cords leading to PCs ,
TVs , stereo/home theater setups, dvd/vcr players, anwering machines,
etc.

 

[kony]

Thats another interesting idea , use that heat instead of just
wasting it.

I gave the bill a more detailed look instead of just blowing my top
over it. The usage pattern has really been going up steadily since the
summer to the point its crept up to over 30% - yow. Its definely not
totally due to the cheap AC as it was creeping up before then but
there is a kind of spike. Hard to say whats exactly consuming all that
power.

That and a rise in cost per unit explains the rising bill.

I wonder if a CRT HDTV used a heck of lot more power than a regular TV
thats another thing I have to look up.

Great - Im buying a subwoofer too.

One thing. You should see some of the condos of the avg user nowadays.
I have so many things plugged into various room its not even funny and
most of my neighbors are like that too. its like a rats nest of power
cords. Some of those living room installations I see - I shudder to
have to break that down and untangle all the cords leading to PCs ,
TVs , stereo/home theater setups, dvd/vcr players, anwering machines,
etc.

Yes, the wires do start to add up though "most" people don't
need all those devices on all the time and those that stay
on or "sleeping" typically use single-digit watts.

 

[Rusty]

Most people don't know this, but turning appliances off does not mean that
they don't still consume electricity,
and if don't believe me just watch your meter slow down after you unplug
them.

BTW most electric companies in the south charge higher rates during (peak
usage time) summer and then drop them down during the winter, unless you opt
for a monthly aver charge. Call around and check it out. In some areas
your rate is determined based on the amount of Kilowatt hr that is used, the
more energy that is used for a given billing cycle the high the rate. They
do this to try to curb usage so that the general public will not overload
the generators (brown outs).

The lighting in the house will use a considerable amount of electricity
(10x60watts=600watts), count the number of lights that are left on in the
day time. In my house den lights two 60W+ bathroom three 60W+ bedroom two
60W+ porch light one 60W, that's eight 60W lights 480W when no one is home.
If you include all the appliances left plugged in some that have
transformers such as phones, tv, stereo, ect., it adds up.

Also the 120V standard does not help. For three phase Power = sq root of 3
x voltage x current, for an increase the voltage you will decrease the
current for the same power draw. A meter measures current not power. A
220V AC unit will cost you less if the same meter is used. The eclectic
company knows this and if you install a large number of 220V appliances (hot
water heater, HVAC unit, washer and dryer) they will come out and install a
220V meter to compensate for the decreased usage (same Kilowatt hr
readings). Do the math 220V is much more efficient than 120V only the
electric company won't let you take advantage of it if they know about it.
The thing about the 220V is that you are not stealing electricity just using
it more eff.

 

[John]

BTW most electric companies in the south charge higher rates during (peak
usage time) summer and then drop them down during the winter, unless you opt
for a monthly aver charge. Call around and check it out. In some areas
your rate is determined based on the amount of Kilowatt hr that is used, the
more energy that is used for a given billing cycle the high the rate. They
do this to try to curb usage so that the general public will not overload
the generators (brown outs).

I think they might be doing that because there were articles recently
about how we were getting close to a brown out and the problems of
having to conserve or build more capacity.

Also -- yeah lots appliances use remote control or timers so they
still draw electricity and articles have said the design of appliances
have been really poor and many use a surpirsingly high amount even
when turned off when they dont need it.

The lighting in the house will use a considerable amount of electricity
(10x60watts=600watts), count the number of lights that are left on in the
day time. In my house den lights two 60W+ bathroom three 60W+ bedroom two
60W+ porch light one 60W, that's eight 60W lights 480W when no one is home.
If you include all the appliances left plugged in some that have
transformers such as phones, tv, stereo, ect., it adds up.

I thought lighting would be the big one but Ive switched them all to
fluorescents and its made a small difference but no where near as
large as I thought. I use to hate fluorescents like a lot of people -
too dark and weird quality of light --- but now I dont mind them at
all. I think they improved them a lot. Now even the 23 watt ones are
very bright and the light is much less cold , blue looking. It has a
warmer yellowish tone to it.

I think the main areas are cooling, water heater, TV, PCs cooking and
washer and dryer and general luse from all the appliances even when
turned off.

Would be great if they had "smart" meters - stuff that logged all the
usage at various outlets - usage patterns etc And the whole hype about
your PC controlling your house came true - a smart house. That way you
could switch things on and off and see usage patterns right on your
PC.