OEM XP versions...bonding what does it mean?

[greg77 via WindowsKB.com]

OK. I know that the difference between a retail and an OEM version of, lets
say, windows XP is that the OEM version is perminetly bonded to the PC it was
originally downloaded onto but what does that mean exactly? Is it bonded to
the hard drive or the motherboard or something else. What spicifically is it
bonded to?
I'm asking because I have a OEM version of XP and downloaded-activated it and
just wondered If for some reason I wanted to get a bigger hardrive for the PC
its on can I reinstall in on the bigger harddrive while still using the same
PC? Or, could I move that hardrive to another computer if needed for some
reason? Or can I do niether? Just wondering and tring to learn more about
things I guess. Thaks for your replys. GREG

 

[Rock]

"greg77 wrote

OK. I know that the difference between a retail and an OEM version of,
lets
say, windows XP is that the OEM version is perminetly bonded to the PC it
was
originally downloaded onto but what does that mean exactly? Is it bonded
to
the hard drive or the motherboard or something else. What spicifically is
it
bonded to?
I'm asking because I have a OEM version of XP and downloaded-activated it
and
just wondered If for some reason I wanted to get a bigger hardrive for the
PC
its on can I reinstall in on the bigger harddrive while still using the
same
PC? Or, could I move that hardrive to another computer if needed for some
reason? Or can I do niether? Just wondering and tring to learn more about
things I guess. Thaks for your replys. GREG

Yes you can upgrade the hard drive. No you can't move it to another
computer. You can upgrade most all components in the system and repair
defective parts. There is some discussion about whether a motherboard
upgrade (not repair) is ok, or requires a new license. Some say yes, some
say no. Read the EULA for more information though that is not very clear.

 

[Og]

OK. I know that the difference between a retail and an OEM version of,
lets
say, windows XP is that the OEM version is perminetly bonded to the PC it
was
originally downloaded onto but what does that mean exactly? Is it bonded
to
the hard drive or the motherboard or something else. What spicifically is
it
bonded to?
I'm asking because I have a OEM version of XP and downloaded-activated it
and
just wondered If for some reason I wanted to get a bigger hardrive for the
PC
its on can I reinstall in on the bigger harddrive while still using the
same
PC? Or, could I move that hardrive to another computer if needed for some
reason? Or can I do niether? Just wondering and tring to learn more about
things I guess. Thaks for your replys. GREG

To further muddle Rock's diplomatic explanation of a muddy issue:
There are two "flavors" of Windows XP OEM:
(1.) The so-called "generic" OEM that Mom & Pop shops, and individual
computers builders, supply with computers they build.
(2.) The so-called "branded" OEM that the Big companies (Gateway, Dell,
HP, Compaq, etc.).
Some (most?) computers from (2.) customize their OEM copies of Win XP to
include a "BIOS Lock", which prevents the their copy from installing on a
computer whose MoBo BIOS does not match the Lock.
Example:
Last year, a relative's MoBo failed in their HP (13 months old). Since HP
wanted more money for a MoBo than the cost of a new computer, I located the
Asus part number on the dead MoBo and purchased a retail Asus MoBo with an
identical part number. The BIOS of the new MoBo, of course, did not have the
HP-branded BIOS, so the HP version of Windows XP OEM refused to install.
Steve

 

[Alias~-]

"greg77 wrote


Yes you can upgrade the hard drive. No you can't move it to another
computer. You can upgrade most all components in the system and repair
defective parts. There is some discussion about whether a motherboard
upgrade (not repair) is ok, or requires a new license. Some say yes,
some say no. Read the EULA for more information though that is not very
clear.

You obviously haven't read a generic XP OEM EULA. It says nothing about
a motherboard and there is no doubt that one can upgrade any component
of a computer with a generic OEM XP running. I have replaced a defective
motherboard on one computer and upgraded two on another. Both computers
activated on line without any problems.

Alias

 

[Alias~-]

To further muddle Rock's diplomatic explanation of a muddy issue:
There are two "flavors" of Windows XP OEM:
(1.) The so-called "generic" OEM that Mom & Pop shops, and individual
computers builders, supply with computers they build.
(2.) The so-called "branded" OEM that the Big companies (Gateway, Dell,
HP, Compaq, etc.).
Some (most?) computers from (2.) customize their OEM copies of Win XP to
include a "BIOS Lock", which prevents the their copy from installing on a
computer whose MoBo BIOS does not match the Lock.
Example:
Last year, a relative's MoBo failed in their HP (13 months old). Since HP
wanted more money for a MoBo than the cost of a new computer, I located the
Asus part number on the dead MoBo and purchased a retail Asus MoBo with an
identical part number. The BIOS of the new MoBo, of course, did not have the
HP-branded BIOS, so the HP version of Windows XP OEM refused to install.
Steve

One of the reasons I buy white boxes.

Alias

 

[Richard Urban]

The only "true" bonding is when a manufacturer locks the version of Windows
XP (installed at delivery) to the bios of the M/B that they have supplied
with the computer. This is done by altering the original Windows XP code so
as to make this happen.

Replace the M/B with another make/manufacturer board and the operating
system will be dysfunctional. A repair/install of the operating system,
using manufacturer supplied media will not work. It's a sales
"reinforcement" gimmick that forces you to go back to the computer
manufacturer for replacement parts. They don't want you to go to a local
supply house to buy a replacement board if yours goes bad.

Any other "bonding" has yet to be proven to my satisfaction.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[greg77 via WindowsKB.com]

The only "true" bonding is when a manufacturer locks the version of Windows
XP (installed at delivery) to the bios of the M/B that they have supplied
with the computer. This is done by altering the original Windows XP code so
as to make this happen.

Replace the M/B with another make/manufacturer board and the operating
system will be dysfunctional. A repair/install of the operating system,
using manufacturer supplied media will not work. It's a sales
"reinforcement" gimmick that forces you to go back to the computer
manufacturer for replacement parts. They don't want you to go to a local
supply house to buy a replacement board if yours goes bad.

Any other "bonding" has yet to be proven to my satisfaction.

OK. I know that the difference between a retail and an OEM version of,
lets

[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]

reason? Or can I do niether? Just wondering and tring to learn more about
things I guess. Thaks for your replys. GREG

Ok, with all thats been said then, it sounds like it's connected to the mobo
through the bios and that it has to be done by a manufacturer tech' or a
local tech' that nows what they're doing and so now the question is sense my
oem version of Windows XP is not a manufacturer install because I installed
onto a Pc at home and didn't alter the XP codeing is it really bonded?

Again just curious, I'm not tring to try and rip off MS or anything just
curious about the whole bonding thing.
My main concern was that I could change the hard drive if need be one day
which it seems that I can. Appereantly, I can't change the mobo though but
thats fine. if and when it quits working then I'l probably be annoyed.

Thanks for your replys. GREG

 

[Richard Urban]

In this case it is only bonded to the PC it is installed upon if you are of
impeccable moral turpitude. The EULA, which you "must" agree to by clicking
the "I Agree" button explains it all.

If a person is of low character and morals there is nothing preventing
him/her from installing Windows XP on another computer if his original
computer dies.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

The only "true" bonding is when a manufacturer locks the version of
Windows
XP (installed at delivery) to the bios of the M/B that they have supplied
with the computer. This is done by altering the original Windows XP code
so
as to make this happen.

Replace the M/B with another make/manufacturer board and the operating
system will be dysfunctional. A repair/install of the operating system,
using manufacturer supplied media will not work. It's a sales
"reinforcement" gimmick that forces you to go back to the computer
manufacturer for replacement parts. They don't want you to go to a local
supply house to buy a replacement board if yours goes bad.

Any other "bonding" has yet to be proven to my satisfaction.

OK. I know that the difference between a retail and an OEM version of,
lets

[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]

reason? Or can I do niether? Just wondering and tring to learn more
about
things I guess. Thaks for your replys. GREG

Ok, with all thats been said then, it sounds like it's connected to the
mobo
through the bios and that it has to be done by a manufacturer tech' or a
local tech' that nows what they're doing and so now the question is sense
my
oem version of Windows XP is not a manufacturer install because I
installed
onto a Pc at home and didn't alter the XP codeing is it really bonded?

Again just curious, I'm not tring to try and rip off MS or anything just
curious about the whole bonding thing.
My main concern was that I could change the hard drive if need be one day
which it seems that I can. Appereantly, I can't change the mobo though but
thats fine. if and when it quits working then I'l probably be annoyed.

Thanks for your replys. GREG

 

[Rock]

"greg77 wrote

Ok, with all thats been said then, it sounds like it's connected to the
mobo
through the bios and that it has to be done by a manufacturer tech' or a
local tech' that nows what they're doing and so now the question is sense
my
oem version of Windows XP is not a manufacturer install because I
installed
onto a Pc at home and didn't alter the XP codeing is it really bonded?

Again just curious, I'm not tring to try and rip off MS or anything just
curious about the whole bonding thing.
My main concern was that I could change the hard drive if need be one day
which it seems that I can. Appereantly, I can't change the mobo though but
thats fine. if and when it quits working then I'l probably be annoyed.

Thanks for your replys. GREG

No it's not "bonded" as in BIOS locked. A "generic" OEM version can be
physically installed on a different computer. It's the license agreement,
the EULA, that states it can not be moved to another computer. You can
certainly repair any component in the system including the motherboard.
You can also upgrade components. Where some people disagree is what
constitutes the computer, and does an upgrade of the motherboard - not a
repair replacement mind you, but an upgrade - constitute a new computer from
the perspective of the license.

 

[Alias~-]

In this case it is only bonded to the PC it is installed upon if you are of
impeccable moral turpitude. The EULA, which you "must" agree to by clicking
the "I Agree" button explains it all.

If a person is of low character and morals there is nothing preventing
him/her from installing Windows XP on another computer if his original
computer dies.

All one has to do to stay within the EULA is not move it to another
computer but replace the components of the "dead" computer, even if it's
every single one. I have a computer where everything except the case
has, over time, been upgraded and I don't feel that I have "low
character and morals" whatsoever for having done so.

Now, if I were to install the same generic OEM on two systems, you would
have a point, although moral and character judgments are subjective
opinions and one would hope that you and others like you would keep your
moral judgments to yourselves and stick to technology and facts.

Alias

 

[Bruce Chambers]

OK. I know that the difference between a retail and an OEM version of, lets
say, windows XP is that the OEM version is perminetly bonded to the PC it was
originally downloaded onto but what does that mean exactly? Is it bonded to
the hard drive or the motherboard or something else. What spicifically is it
bonded to?

It is specifically bound to the entire computer, not to any one
component. Read the EULA for clarification.

I'm asking because I have a OEM version of XP and downloaded-activated it and
just wondered If for some reason I wanted to get a bigger hardrive for the PC
its on can I reinstall in on the bigger harddrive while still using the same
PC?

Certainly. According to its EULA, an OEM license may not be
transferred from one distinct PC to another PC. Nothing is said about
prohibiting one from repairing or upgrading the PC on which an OEM
license is installed.

Or, could I move that hardrive to another computer if needed for some
reason?

This is where it gets complicated. Some people believe that the
motherboard is the key component that defines the "original computer,"
but the OEM EULA does not make any such distinction. Others have said
that one could successfully argue that it's the PC's case that is the
deciding component, as that is where one is instructed to affix the OEM
CoA label w/Product Key. Again, the EULA does *not* specifically define
any single component as the computer. Licensed Microsoft Systems
Builders, who are allowed to distribute OEM licenses with computers they
build and sell, are _contractually_ obligated to "define" the computer
as the motherboard, but this limitation/definition can't be applied to
the end user until the EULA is re-written.

Microsoft has, to date, been very careful _not_ publicly to define
when an incrementally upgraded computer ceases to be the original
computer. The closest I've ever seen a Microsoft employee come to this
definition (in a public forum) is to tell the person making the inquiry
to consult the PC's manufacturer. As the OEM license's support is
solely the responsibility of said manufacturer, they should determine
what sort of hardware changes to allow before the warranty and support
agreements are voided. To paraphrase: An incrementally upgraded
computer ceases to be the original computer, as pertains to the OEM
EULA, only when the *OEM* says it's a different computer. If you've
built the system yourself, and used a generic OEM CD, then _you_ are the
"OEM," and _you_ get to decide when you'll no longer support your product.

The issue is further complicated by the fact that many OEM
installations, specifically those performed by major computer
manufacturers and shipped pre-installed on their assembled computers,
are BIOS-locked to a specific chipset and therefore not transferable to
a new motherboard. However, this technical limitation does not apply to
unbranded, generic OEM CDs, such as may be purchased from many sources
with a qualifying non-peripheral hardware component.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Timothy Daniels]

The issue is further complicated by the fact that many OEM
installations, specifically those performed by major computer
manufacturers and shipped pre-installed on their assembled
computers, are BIOS-locked to a specific chipset and therefore
not transferable to a new motherboard. However, this technical
limitation does not apply to unbranded, generic OEM CDs...

Do you mean to say that the BIOSes of major OEMs are "locked"
both to a particular chipset on the motherboard *and* to a parameter
setting in their OEM WinXP installation CD, and that this would
prevent the major OEM's WinXP CD to do an installation on a PC
having a generic motherboard with a generic BIOS?

It's unclear what you mean by "a particular chipset". Do mean
sequentially numbered chips so that individual chips are identified,
or do you mean chips that are custom "branded" by the chip
foundry, or do you mean individual chip *types*?

What is the point in matching the BIOS to a chipset? If the motherboard
is replaced, the BIOS gets replaced as well. A generic board will
have a generic BIOS. A Dell board will have a Dell BIOS. What is
the need for "chipset" recognition if the OEM BIOS and OEM WinXP
installation CD will recognize each other?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Frank]

You obviously haven't read a generic XP OEM EULA. It says nothing
about a motherboard and there is no doubt that one can upgrade any
component of a computer with a generic OEM XP running. I have replaced
a defective motherboard on one computer and upgraded two on another.
Both computers activated on line without any problems.

Alias

The latest from jesusland....talk about control....
[paste]
Thank you for your interest in purchasing a Microsoft application or
server program from ZipZoomFly.

Under the agreement with Microsoft that computer stores such as
ZipZoomFly must abide by, we are only allowed to sell this application
or server program to you, the end user, if you also order a fully
assembled computer system in the same transaction. A fully assembled
computer system shall consist of at least a central processing unit, a
motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply and a case.

This applies to every Microsoft application or server program you intend
to order. If you are ordering two Microsoft applications or server
programs, you must also order two qualifying accompanying products in
the same transaction.

If you are a reseller and can provide a reseller's permit, this rule
DOES NOT APPLY to you. You may purchase the 3-pack of any of our
Microsoft OEM products with no accompanying items required. Simply fax
your reseller's permit immediately after placing your order and include
your order number on the fax. Our fax number is 510-739-0507.

If you have any questions as to what whether your accompanying item will
qualify, please us at (e-mail address removed).

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Do you mean to say that the BIOSes of major OEMs are "locked"
both to a particular chipset on the motherboard ....

No, the BIOS is installed on a CMOS chip that is usually part of a
given chipset.

..... to a parameter
setting in their OEM WinXP installation CD, and that this would
prevent the major OEM's WinXP CD to do an installation on a PC
having a generic motherboard with a generic BIOS?

Yes. While I don't think all OEMs follow this practice yet, most major
one do. A newer (Dell was relatively late adopting the practice) Dell
OEM CD, for example, will not install on any motherboard other one for
which it was specifically designed. The installation routine checks for
specific identifying criteria contained within the BIOS of the Dell
motherboard. If it doesn't find the necessary information, the
installation aborts.

It's unclear what you mean by "a particular chipset". Do mean
sequentially numbered chips so that individual chips are identified,
or do you mean chips that are custom "branded" by the chip
foundry, or do you mean individual chip *types*?

From Whatis.com
(http://searchsmb.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,290660,sid44_gci211781,00.html):

A chipset is a group of integrated circuits (microchips) that can be
used together to serve a single function and are therefore manufactured
and sold as a unit. For example, one chipset might combine all the
microchips needed to serve as the communications controller between a
processor and memory and other devices in a computer.

What is the point in matching the BIOS to a chipset?

Well, the BIOS has to be installed somewhere....

If the motherboard
is replaced, the BIOS gets replaced as well. A generic board will
have a generic BIOS. A Dell board will have a Dell BIOS.

Obviously. That's why a Dell CD won't work on a non-Dell motherboard/BIOS.

What is
the need for "chipset" recognition if the OEM BIOS and OEM WinXP
installation CD will recognize each other?

Because each OEM places unique identifying data within it's own BIOS,
so that its branded OEM CDs can't be used elsewhere.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Bruce, you're talking right past my questions.

I asked:

"It's unclear what you mean by "a particular chipset".
Do mean sequentially numbered chips so that individual
chips are identified, or do you mean chips that are custom
"branded" by the chip foundry, or do you mean individual
chip *types*?"

Evidently, by your reply, by "a particular chipset", you mean
a comination of chip *types* - "a particular combination of brand
and model no. of chips that were designed to work together
to perform a designated function". And you do NOT mean
"a particular, specific set of individually unique chips".
IOW, the "particular" does not mean "specific and unique"
as in the unique sequentially-assigned numbers associated
with particular, specific and individual pieces of hardware
such as the redundantly termed "MAC address" that identifies
things such as modems.

IOW, the "particular chipset" could be a chipset that is found
on thousands or millions of motherboards, each chipset
indistinguishable from the next.

Since that is the case, it is the BIOS (in its CMOS carrier)
that identifies a motherboard as "Dell" or "HP", not the
"particular chipset", and the BIOS doesn't pair with the
chipset, it pairs with the Dell OEM Windows installation CD.
The "particular chipset" could be designed into any generic
motherboard if the motherboard's designer so wishes, and
neither the BIOS nor the installation CD would care.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

The latest from jesusland....talk about control....
[paste]

Thank you for your interest in purchasing a Microsoft application or
server program from ZipZoomFly.

Under the agreement with Microsoft that computer stores such as
ZipZoomFly must abide by, we are only allowed to sell this application
or server program to you, the end user, if you also order a fully
assembled computer system in the same transaction. A fully assembled
computer system shall consist of at least a central processing unit, a
motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply and a case.

This applies to every Microsoft application or server program you intend
to order. If you are ordering two Microsoft applications or server
programs, you must also order two qualifying accompanying products in
the same transaction.

If you are a reseller and can provide a reseller's permit, this rule
DOES NOT APPLY to you. You may purchase the 3-pack of any of our
Microsoft OEM products with no accompanying items required. Simply fax
your reseller's permit immediately after placing your order and include
your order number on the fax. Our fax number is 510-739-0507.

If you have any questions as to what whether your accompanying item will
qualify, please us at (e-mail address removed).

It sounds like Microsoft's legal department leaned on ZipZoomFly
really hard. This, if it permeates the parts industry, means that one
would have to order most of the parts for a homebrewed system at
the same place.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Richard Urban]

Dell, Compaq, HP etc. can place anything in the bios they desire, including
an identifier string. They can also delete anything from a standard bios
that the don't want the customer to have access to because they feel the
customer could screw up their computer by implementing incorrect settings.

The Windows installer is then modified to look for this identifier string in
the bios. If it not found, the operating system will not install. If the ID
string is not present because someone changed the M/B to a generic brand
(for instance) the operating system will not boot, and can not be made to
boot - even by a repair install or a clean install.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Timothy Daniels]

That is how I understand my Dell computer to work. A corollary
is that the retail Windows installation CD will *not* look for any
OEM-identifying string in the BIOS, and that's why a retail Windows
version will install on any PC.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Alias~-]

That is how I understand my Dell computer to work. A corollary
is that the retail Windows installation CD will *not* look for any
OEM-identifying string in the BIOS, and that's why a retail Windows
version will install on any PC.

*TimDaniels*

So will a generic OEM version.

Alias