Oem Vista - No disk provided

[Jonno]

Hey, I'm 51, and I love Vista. I've been using Windows since 3.1. Each
new version required you to learn new ways of using the OS, and I did.

If I ever get to the point in my life where I am unwilling or unable to
learn new things, I hope I die soon after!

Kurt

One thing to be said for Vista, MS sure move their names around. While
in XP program add remove its now called programs personalization, which
is the same for others. These are not good features...As they confuse,
as they are meant to.
As far as the programs being junk, no but there are a lot on unneeded
features there, but just so you have to buy the o/s they stop supporing
the previous versions. There should be laws against this, as its
completely unethical. The way around this is to make the law to put any
unsupported o/s in the public domain, and that they MUST also release
the source code when this happens. I am sure that this will make them
act more responsibly, instead of making excuses to release more and more
revenue gathering programs...
PS I'm 61 and dont avoid change. I just hate it when it appears
uneeded...Why dont they fix the old programs first!

 

[John Barnett MVP]

Actually I'm well past the 50 mark and certainly don' class myself as old or
'too old' to try something different. Remember Vista took 5 years to develop
and has been available retail for 1 year. Out of those total 6 years I have
used Vista for a period of 3 years running it from beta to RTM and have
never had problems with it. I hate to think how many beta builds I installed
and tested, but each was a challenge and, hopefully, I will go through the
same thing again with the next build; even the beta build of Server 2008
hasn't been a headache for me.

I'm not being 'polite' about Vista or making 'excuses' for it, I simply
works for me better than XP ever did. You are probably saying 'yes, he would
say that, he's an MVP and is in Microsoft's pocket' Actually you would be
wrong. MVP' are not paid servants of Microsoft, we give our advice free of
charge and without any payment from Microsoft. Because we are independent we
give our own opinions. Microsoft needs me more than I need Microsoft, as I
have made plain on many occasions. As a Journalist I am used to reviewing
and commenting on software, sadly if the software is junk then, regardless
of who manufactured it, be that Microsoft, Symantec, Adobe or whoever, then
I will say it is junk. My first priority is to tell it how it is to the
buying public regardless of who 'thinks' they are pulling the strings.


--
--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows - Shell/User

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..

 

[Mike]

Actually I'm well past the 50 mark and certainly don' class myself as old
or 'too old' to try something different. Remember Vista took 5 years to
develop and has been available retail for 1 year. Out of those total 6
years I have used Vista for a period of 3 years running it from beta to
RTM and have never had problems with it. I hate to think how many beta
builds I installed and tested, but each was a challenge and, hopefully, I
will go through the same thing again with the next build; even the beta
build of Server 2008 hasn't been a headache for me.

I'm not being 'polite' about Vista or making 'excuses' for it, I simply
works for me better than XP ever did. You are probably saying 'yes, he
would say that, he's an MVP and is in Microsoft's pocket' Actually you
would be wrong. MVP' are not paid servants of Microsoft, we give our
advice free of charge and without any payment from Microsoft. Because we
are independent we give our own opinions. Microsoft needs me more than I
need Microsoft, as I have made plain on many occasions. As a Journalist I
am used to reviewing and commenting on software, sadly if the software is
junk then, regardless of who manufactured it, be that Microsoft, Symantec,
Adobe or whoever, then I will say it is junk. My first priority is to tell
it how it is to the buying public regardless of who 'thinks' they are
pulling the strings.


--
--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows - Shell/User

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out
of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in
this mail/post..

Very well put.

Keep up the good work and thank you for your efforts, which ultimately
benefit all of us.

Mike

 

[Mellowed]

Humm. I'm 70 and didn't have any problem using Vista. I guess some of us
slow down a little faster than others.

 

[Wim Hekken ;-)]

Too Old complained:

Why do people act so politely towards Vista and make excuses for it.

Vista runs without any problem on my Acer 9920 laptop

It is just junk.

That's your opinion, not mine.

Vista is not friendly or easy to use. Microsoft will probably
dump it soon because many of us are over 50 and don't want to have to learn
to use something new every time we use our computer.

Age is no excuse. I'm 54. Curiosity helps me all the time to learn new
things. It keeps my mind fresh and young.

Bill Gates ought to be ashamed of taking a perfectly good product
and allowing his mindless software junkies to screw it up.

You have two options:

1> Buy a Apple Mac
2> Remove Windows and install Linux.
3> Get rid of the computer and get a real life.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I've just bought a new Acer computer from PC World and find that there is no
Vista backup disk or serial/licence number provided. Vista has been
pre-installed and I am supposed to create my own backup disk after starting
the system for the first time.

Are OEMs now allowed to supply computers without providing "genuine"
Microsoft software disks?

They always have (or at least for a very long time).

OEM vendors are required by their agreement with Microsoft to give you
a means of reinstalling, should it be necessary. They can do this in
one of three ways:

1. An OEM copy of Windows
2. A restore CD
3. A hidden partition on your drive, with restore information.

If you don't have 1 or 2, you should have 3, but you should contact
your vendor to find out.

Personally, I find both 2 and 3 unacceptable (especially 3; a hard
drive crash can leave you with nothing), and would never choose to buy
a computer that came with an operating system unless I got a complete
generic installation CD for that operating system.

And what happens if my hard disk no longer
functions? Am I supposed to buy a new Vista licence in order to do a
reinstall?

See above. I would personally never buy such a computer.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I don't have to make excuses for Vista, as it works very well for me. And I
didn't find it hard to get used to..
I can't imagine going back to XP. If you don't adjust now, the learning
curve for the next OS will be much steeper.

Retired, and will be 57 in a month.

I'm with you entirely, Dave, and I'm 70.

It has nothing to do with age.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I've just bought a new Acer computer from PC World and find that there is no
Vista backup disk or serial/licence number provided. Vista has been
pre-installed and I am supposed to create my own backup disk after starting
the system for the first time.

Are OEMs now allowed to supply computers without providing "genuine"
Microsoft software disks?

It's been this way for several years, now. Microsoft requires its
licensed OEM computer manufacturers to provide a means of returning the
computer to its original, ex-factory state. The particular method of
recovery, however, is left entirely to the discretion of each individual
computer manufacturer.

Legally, the OEM has met it's contractual obligation to Microsoft
by providing a means of returning the PC to its ex-factory state,
whether it's a Recovery CD or a Recovery Partition. They are not
legally obliged to provide a true installation CD as part of the sale.
Reputable, customer-service aware OEMs, like Dell and Gateway, do
provide a full OEM installation CD, that does permit custom
installations and repairs. However, many uncaring or lower-end OEMs,
such as eMachines, Compaq, HP, and Sony, in an effort to save pennies
and reduce their support costs by having to hire support people that
need only say "Boot from the Recovery CD to return your PC to its
original condition," provide only a CD bearing a disk image of the hard
drive as it left the factory.

Essentially, it boils down to "You get what you pay for."

The computer's manufacturer will have provided you some means of
returning the computer to it's original, ex-factory state. Read the
documentation that came with the computer, or check the manufacturer's
support web site, and follow the instructions/procedures provided.

And what happens if my hard disk no longer
functions?

That's why you were immediately prompted to create your own Recovery DVD.

Am I supposed to buy a new Vista licence in order to do a
reinstall?

Your Product Key will be on a CoA label affixed to the exterior
(probably on the bottom) of the laptop.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[DP]

Will be 58 in two months and I'm one of Vista's biggest boosters on this
newsgroup.

 

[John Barnett MVP]

I try my best, Mike; unfortunately it doesn't suit everybody

--
--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows - Shell/User

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..

 

[DarkSentinel]

Its unfortunate OEMs continue to do this, Dell provides install disk for
Windows on their most basic systems, I don't know why it should be so hard
for either Acer or HP.

It's not that difficult to open the eRecovery applet and burn the DVD's
Andre. Granted the original media would be nice, but hey, I got this system
off eBay, so I'm not complaining. I actually find that most of the
extraneous stuff they added pretty useful as well.

 

[DarkSentinel]

Why do people act so politely towards Vista and make excuses for it. It
is
just junk. Vista is not friendly or easy to use. Microsoft will probably
dump it soon because many of us are over 50 and don't want to have to
learn
to use something new every time we use our computer. Bill Gates ought to
be
ashamed of taking a perfectly good product and allowing his mindless
software
junkies to screw it up.

Why do people bitch about it when it works? Nobody is holding a gun to
anyone's head to make you use it. There ARE options. Don't like. Use what
you do. It IS just that simple.

 

[DarkSentinel]

I'm with you entirely, Dave, and I'm 70.

It has nothing to do with age.

It has to do that people have to have SOMETHING to gripe about, and just
start sh*t because they have nothing better to do.

 

[DarkSentinel]

Hey, I'm 51, and I love Vista. I've been using Windows since 3.1. Each new
version required you to learn new ways of using the OS, and I did.

If I ever get to the point in my life where I am unwilling or unable to
learn new things, I hope I die soon after!

I'm 43, started with DOS 1 and even CP/M. Uncle was an EE for Big Blue, so
you know what I grew up doing. I totally agree that the day that I say I
can't or won't learn anything new, I'm on my death bed.

 

[DarkSentinel]

They always have (or at least for a very long time).

OEM vendors are required by their agreement with Microsoft to give you
a means of reinstalling, should it be necessary. They can do this in
one of three ways:

1. An OEM copy of Windows
2. A restore CD
3. A hidden partition on your drive, with restore information.

If you don't have 1 or 2, you should have 3, but you should contact
your vendor to find out.

Personally, I find both 2 and 3 unacceptable (especially 3; a hard
drive crash can leave you with nothing), and would never choose to buy
a computer that came with an operating system unless I got a complete
generic installation CD for that operating system.

It boils down to personal preference Ken. DVD media is cheap. How hard is it
to click an icon and pop in a couple of discs? As stated in a previous post,
I got this system from eBay. For under $300 I got a damn nice system. Aspire
ASE380, DualCore AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+, 400GB SATA2, 2 GB RAM, DVD RW,
Gigabit Ethernet, etc. I popped in my old drives with SATA adapters, and the
system absolutely flies. I'm not going to whine because I have to burn 2
DVD's you know? For some money is the issue. I just moved across country,
and starting a new business up out here, and cost IS an issue right now.

See above. I would personally never buy such a computer.

Again, just burn the disks. I also have the Acronis software to image the
install partition. Also, what I did was extend the warranty, so my drive
fails, I call em up, and get a new one. I have the extra drives and can
restore until it gets back. It may also be interesting to note as well, I
had absolutely zero problems re-activating Vista. Didn't even have to call
in.

 

[Alias]

DarkSentinel wrote:
.. I'm not

going to whine because I have to burn 2 DVD's you know? For some money
is the issue. I just moved across country, and starting a

The problem is that your average computer user doesn't know they have to
do that and when they need to reinstall, if they can't access it any
more for whatever reason, they're screwed, angry and you can bet the
farm that they blame it on whomever they bought the computer from. The
hidden partition trip is a lose/lose idea for the OEMs.

Alias

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

It boils down to personal preference Ken. DVD media is cheap. How hard is it
to click an icon and pop in a couple of discs?

Very easy, as you say. But the result is not an installation CD.

As stated in a previous post,
I got this system from eBay. For under $300 I got a damn nice system. Aspire
ASE380, DualCore AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+, 400GB SATA2, 2 GB RAM, DVD RW,
Gigabit Ethernet, etc. I popped in my old drives with SATA adapters, and the
system absolutely flies. I'm not going to whine because I have to burn 2
DVD's you know? For some money is the issue. I just moved across country,
and starting a new business up out here, and cost IS an issue right now.


Again, just burn the disks. I also have the Acronis software to image the
install partition.

Your choice entirely, as you said. An image of the installation
partition is not at all the same thing as an installation CD. *I* want
an installation CD, and wouldn't settle for anything less. And that's
what I personally recommend to others.

 

[DarkSentinel]

Very easy, as you say. But the result is not an installation CD.




Your choice entirely, as you said. An image of the installation
partition is not at all the same thing as an installation CD. *I* want
an installation CD, and wouldn't settle for anything less. And that's
what I personally recommend to others.

Never said I disagreed bud. I look at it this way however. Most users aren't
techies like us. What is easier for them, popping a disk that does
everything for them, or having them step through a bunch of stuff? It's
simple economics unfortunately. As has been stated in many posts, since it
is an OEM system, the onus is on them to support it instead of MS. Which is
going to cause them less hassles? Cost less on the support side? It's not
just a matter of providing a set of cheap media as some suggest. As I have
stated many times as have you and others, research WHAT you are purchasing.
If you don't do at least that, you (in the general sense) have nothing to
gripe about when it comes back and bites you in the ass. I knew what I was
purchasing before I bought it, and deal with my decision.

 

[ato_zee]

Very easy, as you say. But the result is not an installation CD.

If the drive fails a recovery partition is useless.

Images of drives are often vendor, model, specific. This
often means that when you upgrade the hardware the
drivers that would be on an authentic MS distribution
are not there.

Like the PC comes with a bundled printer, you may find
drivers for a lot of other printers missing.
In fact most of the HID drivers may be missing, so
Plug and Pray fails.

 

[DarkSentinel]

If the drive fails a recovery partition is useless.

Images of drives are often vendor, model, specific. This
often means that when you upgrade the hardware the
drivers that would be on an authentic MS distribution
are not there.

Like the PC comes with a bundled printer, you may find
drivers for a lot of other printers missing.
In fact most of the HID drivers may be missing, so
Plug and Pray fails.

Which is WHY most of us image our restore partition with Acronis or similar
software. Coming from a network admin background I am anal about back-ups,
and being to restore quickly. My Acer also has the ability to create driver
and application disks, so anything that shipped with this particular system
is covered. Also other than the extraneous Acer apps, as far as I can see
after comparing it to other Vista systems if is a full install, no missing
drivers, etc.