ntbackup question

[Guest]

1. The backup wizard gives options to "back up
everything" or select files, drives, etc. Is there a
difference between the "everything" option and selecting
the c: drive (given that c: is my only internal
unpartitioned drive).

2. I do weekly full backups and 3 incremental backups
during the week. Do I need to backup the System State
data with the incremental backup. Stated another way, if
I had a total disk failure, if I applied a full backup
and then incrementals without the State data, would that
work? The reason for the question is that I find that my
default incremental backups are taking too long, mainly
because of the State data that is being backed up.

 

[Bryan Martin]

Yes, everything includes systemstate where C: does not

 

[SlowJet]

Windows OS can not be recovered while running.
The only option for recovery using the suppiled NTBACKUP program is to so a
complete "backup everything on this computer" backup (this includes all
partitions on all drives and the SS.

This is disaster recovery only and the recovery is run from the XP CD ARS
program in memory, the ARS floppy disk created to id the BKF file.

The documentation does not explain the limit very well if the recovery
device can be on a network share partition or tape drive. (i.e. Is the XP CD
recovery AR program and the ARS recovery floppy smart enough to enable the
network connection to the share.

Until someone states yes or no positively (or you run a test) then the only
devices that can be used for the backup are,

A Local tape drive (atapi)
The documentation is not clear even for a removable USB disk. (wouild it try
to backup itself, is USB enabled with driver during recovery?)

Therefore the NTBACKUP program should only be used for file and data
recovery.

Complete program recovery would only be available under certain
circumstances to the extent that the registry had not changed such that the
program could not run or does not run correctly. The registry entries for
the program would be difficult to keep in sync.

The ARS recovery is a wipe and format of what ever was backed up, so all
disks and partitions are deleted, recreated, formated, and recovered. (The
disks must match the backup state.

Data backup - use NTBACKUP to selectively backup a set of folders with a set
of file types.

Program Files - Backup the Program Files folder.

OS files and drivers - backup the SYS / Boot partiton C: and SS - use only
to reover missing or corrupt files that are not dependent on you system
running. (A user would probablely not know much about what was what in this
area but it could save the bacon someday.)

Site disaster - copy backup files to CD or DVD with Software that will spand
media. Store this off site, and store a second or older set of tapes
offsite.

Notes: XP CD used for ARS recovery may need to be a slipstremed i. g. SP2.

If anyone has actually done an ARS recovery from a UBS disk device it would
be very helpful to know the details.

If anyone has done an ARS recovery from a new share ... details please.
thank you.

If I am wrong on anything I said here, don't throw a fit just post the
correct info because many need to know this process.

SJ

 

[Harry Ohrn]

The version of NTBackup that comes with XP Home will not perform an ASR
however the one that ships with XP Pro will do an ASR.

 

[SlowJet]

Thanks, Harry, a point that adds to the confussion.

The NTBACKUP program on BOTH XP PRO and XP HOME are Identical.

The HOMe addition is not installed by default.
If it is installed from the XP CD it will have the same BACKUP otions as the
PRO version,

BUT ARS is not part of HOME so the restore can not use and will not ask for
the ARS floppy disk created.

SJ

Now, back to restore - Please replay if you have done ASR from USB, net
share, or ...

The version of NTBackup that comes with XP Home will not perform an ASR
however the one that ships with XP Pro will do an ASR.

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

Windows OS can not be recovered while running.
The only option for recovery using the suppiled NTBACKUP program is to so
a complete "backup everything on this computer" backup (this includes all
partitions on all drives and the SS.

This is disaster recovery only and the recovery is run from the XP CD ARS
program in memory, the ARS floppy disk created to id the BKF file.

The documentation does not explain the limit very well if the recovery
device can be on a network share partition or tape drive. (i.e. Is the XP
CD recovery AR program and the ARS recovery floppy smart enough to enable
the network connection to the share.

Until someone states yes or no positively (or you run a test) then the
only devices that can be used for the backup are,

A Local tape drive (atapi)
The documentation is not clear even for a removable USB disk. (wouild it
try to backup itself, is USB enabled with driver during recovery?)

Therefore the NTBACKUP program should only be used for file and data
recovery.

Complete program recovery would only be available under certain
circumstances to the extent that the registry had not changed such that
the program could not run or does not run correctly. The registry entries
for the program would be difficult to keep in sync.

The ARS recovery is a wipe and format of what ever was backed up, so all
disks and partitions are deleted, recreated, formated, and recovered.
(The disks must match the backup state.

Data backup - use NTBACKUP to selectively backup a set of folders with a
set of file types.

Program Files - Backup the Program Files folder.

OS files and drivers - backup the SYS / Boot partiton C: and SS - use
only to reover missing or corrupt files that are not dependent on you
system running. (A user would probablely not know much about what was
what in this area but it could save the bacon someday.)

Site disaster - copy backup files to CD or DVD with Software that will
spand media. Store this off site, and store a second or older set of
tapes offsite.

Notes: XP CD used for ARS recovery may need to be a slipstremed i. g.
SP2.

If anyone has actually done an ARS recovery from a UBS disk device it
would be very helpful to know the details.

If anyone has done an ARS recovery from a new share ... details please.
thank you.

If I am wrong on anything I said here, don't throw a fit just post the
correct info because many need to know this process.

SJ

 

[SlowJet]

ASR - The fine details remain a mystery.



After reading many web site articles on the ASR process I fine the details
missing.



Basically, the ASR process is a mini install from the XP CD, a recovery
floppy contains two files that identify files related to the recovery.





The Mini install is 3 parts.



1.. Identifying and restore the disk serial numbers, partition,
formatting.
I have not found any detail on how this actually works or the order of the
process.

Some say the C: partition is erased. There is no such function to do this in
XP.

Some say the C: partition is formatted, some say formatted first.

Some say all partitions are deleted, recreated (with serial number, volume
info, formatted.

None say as to what order the other partitions are created or how.

None say when the other disks are processed, but the ASR does handle
multiple disks including dynamic disks and other special formats for mass
storage.



2.. After the C: partition is ready; the install files are copied to the
C: partition and the mini install are run. The system reboots.
3.. After reboot the ASR floppy file information is used to vary the
location, name of the BCF file. The NTBACKUP restore wizard is started
automatically and asks the user to verify the file. It waits for 90 seconds
and then starts the recovery.




SJ

 

[SlowJet]

Logical conclusion of disk-partitions.

The ASR process would need to delete any existing partitions because they
may not match the ASR bkf partition state.

The ASR process would need to create partitions (matching the ASR bkf
partition state) because NEW unformatted disks could be used.

The ASR process would need to format all the partitions.
These processes would need to be done by the XP CD startup program (contains
the required programs and commands) using the ASR floppy info and possibly
part of the ASR bkf. (if the bkf is used to get disk and partition info then
the net link may not work. Still an unknown)

SJ

 

[Guest]

I have successfully recovered an entire XP image using a USB external hard
drive. However, it required the "replace all" option; "replace older files"
did not work.

My original question had to do with daily incremental backups. Would it be
necessary to backup the SS as part of an incremental backup, assuming that a
prior periodic (weekly) full backup is performed?

 

[SlowJet]

To back up data files you would select a few folders and run NTBACKUP to
create a bkf. No SS is needed. You can't do anything with the SS.

The next time you backup the selected folders you would say incremental and
probally append to orignal bkf.

I would not bother with incremental unless I made a lot of changes to the
files before the next backup or the volume (size) of the full backup was
more than a few minutes of run time. I would make 3 full bkf files and
rotate them.

For purely data files like DOC, TXT, Excel, DBF, JPG in a folder that
changes a lot and only contains a few MB I would run a zip of those and put
into a non SYS / Boot partiton, When the backup ran, weekly, it would back
up all the folders that has zip files.

That way you could run a zip and move the file after a lot of work in a
folder.

I have no idea what an image is other than 3rd party or a picture.

There are many things to consider about backup. The first is your data and
personal info, and software (like drivers and downloarded packages) to get
the computer running again.

Recovering the whole disk(partitons) form a 3rd party image or using ARS is
another story.
Although such a recovy may take as long as reinstalling everything, it's a
lot less mental and many less steps.

SJ
..

SJ

 

[Colin Jones]

If anyone has done an ARS recovery from a new share ... details please.
thank you.

I have successully restored a full XP system using ASR with the backup
stored across a network - a wireless one at that! I assume a similar
process could be used for a wired network too... Certainly worth a
shot (I would test first before relying on it alone) - this is the
link to how I did it:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&[email protected]

Colin.