Novell Desktop Linux 10: getting closer to a toss up between Linux & Windows?

[Robert Redelmeier]

I think you've lived with the "luxury" of being M$-free
at home for too long Robert.

Well, what can I say

As for responsibilities, yes... but we've all been caught
at one time or another - zero-day is what it is.;-)

Not sure what you're saying. I've never "caught" anything.
Not even on my poxy work MS-Win2k box. It's locked down pretty
tight, autoadmin'd, and useless for anything except MS-Office.
Like I said, basically useless. I do real work on a Sun.

Alot like 20 years ago when I had a 3278 for PROFS, and
a PC for real work. Ah, PROFS. Now _that_ was a _real_
mail system. Push, not store-and-fwd.

-- Robert

 

[George Macdonald]

Well, what can I say


Not sure what you're saying. I've never "caught" anything.
Not even on my poxy work MS-Win2k box. It's locked down pretty
tight, autoadmin'd, and useless for anything except MS-Office.
Like I said, basically useless. I do real work on a Sun.

Well I'll err confess to getting caught a couple of times:
laziness/ignorance on virus defns update, trusting others too much,
ignorance of ports for blocking as well as zero-day. I still remember my
first virus umm, vividly - Indonesia Emas and I was its first report to
Symantec... got it off a floppy which had just come off a client's
laptop.:-(

Alot like 20 years ago when I had a 3278 for PROFS, and
a PC for real work. Ah, PROFS. Now _that_ was a _real_
mail system. Push, not store-and-fwd.

I hated that stuff - we were in minis at the time.

 

[George Macdonald]

Well look at it the bright way, by not having MS and not 400 Billion in grants
you save 500 Billion on MS software.
Where do you think the gov gets the 400B from anyways ;-)

(MS sells for 4G $, taxes .4G$ and YOU pay for the 4G$ by buying all those
E M P E R O R no clothes apps).

I'm afraid the above is much too cryptic for me - might help if you
proof-read your posts instead of shooting from the hip. I've no more love
of M$ than you but this is the world we live in - ignoring M$, their
interface to apps and file formats is like farting against thunder.

And, as the subject is the new Novell desktop, at least SOME will agree with
me that THIS:
http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/
does not add a lot to 'functionality'.
Indeed it is just a waterhead on the same box with the same apps.

It's what users like. Tell the bankruptcy court: "people don't need GUIs".

As for the ftp server (your other reply), yes I understand a bit the stress
you poor MS victims must be under, now that every website, every movie, every
email, and every link can take over your box and destroy years of work.
My condolences....
Now with 4 years and servers online and a LOT of usage not ONE external 'event'
did anything to my Linux box.
I read emails, download files, open attachments, and have a good firewall
(iptables).

You really think Unix/Linux is safer than Windows? It's only a smaller
target. When... *if* it grows up... look out!

As to the ftp server, I notice the old kernel and system worked (!!!) and this
one does not.
Only from inet.d it does not work, so now it (proftpd) runs standalone.
Tested from the US.
So, yes, MS soft makes one paranoia, it helps to sell anti-virus soft.
Just like Bush makes the world paranoia for Iran, that helps to put oil
prices higher and sell weapons.
Paranoia sells, if not only for tinfoil hats.

Save the political crap... oh and do tell why Dutch emigration applications
are skyrocketing?

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

You really think Unix/Linux is safer than Windows? It's only
a smaller target. When... *if* it grows up... look out!

I can't speak for Jan, but I truly believe Unix/Linux in intrinsicly safer:

1) Open source code ensures continual review. "With enough
eyeballs, all bugs are shallow" [Linus]. Some [OpenBSD]
have been through rigorous line-by-line. Obscurity (closed
source) is not security.

2) Designed and built as multi-user, multi-process assuming hostility.
Users have been beating on root since dirt was new.

3) Very few vendor drivers.

4) Wider variety of apps. More targets. None with as negligent defaults as MS.

5) Running as unpriv user is normal.


There probably are more. But it boils down into two camps:
A) fewer bugs; B) working privilege isolation.

Save the political crap... oh and do tell why Dutch
emigration applications are skyrocketing?

And this after 200+ years of the risk-tolerant
leaving and stratifying the genertic base.


-- Robert

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

Well I'll err confess to getting caught a couple of times:
laziness/ignorance on virus defns update, trusting others too
much, ignorance of ports for blocking as well as zero-day.
I still remember my first virus umm, vividly - Indonesia
Emas and I was its first report to Symantec... got it off
a floppy which had just come off a client's laptop.:-(

I'm not entirely sure why, but safe computing comes naturally
to me. Like driving with seatbelts unfastened really bugs me.
I feel naked. Foreign apps are assumed hostile. Data might be,
so apps have to be armored. MS apps have to be reconfigured before
they could possibly be safe. Their defaults are in the realm of
criminal negligence. NIST has help.

Direct connect anything to the Internet (even a buttetproof OpenBSD
box) is risky. What is the reward? Better first go through a
hardware firewall. Keep the worms out. Good apps and privilege
isolation (even on MS-WinNT+) will keep the trojans out.

The MS-JPEG vulnerability was a new low: How could a viewer be
so buggy as to allow pure data to take over? Why the h3ll use
the stack for var.args that might overflow? Data is known to be
hostile, or at least often corrupt. Crashing is not acceptable.

-- Robert

 

[George Macdonald]

I'm not entirely sure why, but safe computing comes naturally
to me. Like driving with seatbelts unfastened really bugs me.
I feel naked. Foreign apps are assumed hostile. Data might be,
so apps have to be armored. MS apps have to be reconfigured before
they could possibly be safe. Their defaults are in the realm of
criminal negligence. NIST has help.

I agree completely *but* as I say, I've been "caught" and I'm pretty
careful. From what I've seen of other other peoples' systems, if it's
inconvenient -- e.g. having to logoff/logon/logoff/logon to install
software -- people will not follow the "rules". Things that are accepted
globally as part of everyday life, like .doc files, are absolutely nuts but
nobody's making an effort to fix "it".

Direct connect anything to the Internet (even a buttetproof OpenBSD
box) is risky. What is the reward? Better first go through a
hardware firewall. Keep the worms out. Good apps and privilege
isolation (even on MS-WinNT+) will keep the trojans out.

I haven't seen a recent firewall but the one on our Netopia router had only
two very rudimentary factory port blocking profiles. If you have to learn
the ports to block, it's usually after the fact. As for "good apps" and
privilege isolation on M$'s OSes, IME people are very selective about which
rules they'll follow - if they don't like the rules, they bend them (see
above); if they really like the app, e.g. Skype, they don't even want to
hear about "vulnerable"... yes I know Skype is not so bad now -- still some
discussion/controversy there all the same -- but there were lots of red
flags when it first came out.

 

[Alexander Grigoriev]

Go to www.securityfocus.com, check bugtraq IDs: 12881, 5059, 10244,
8061,12703,6439, 10857,11523,11556,11481,16202, etc. Nothing is perfect.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Save the political crap... oh and do tell why Dutch emigration applications
are skyrocketing?

Its full, overflowing, people keep reproducing.

US is empty space mostly, and STILL they build a fence between Mexico and US.

Ever tried to park you car in Amsyterdan center?
Its FULL.

hehe

 

[Keith]

Its full, overflowing, people keep reproducing.

With a fertility rate of 1.64, reproduction isn't why it's "full".

US is empty space mostly, and STILL they build a fence between Mexico and US.

Can you say "illegal"? I thought you could.

Ever tried to park you car in Amsyterdan center?

No, never tried.

Its FULL.

I can tell from here.

hehe

Indeed.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

Its full, overflowing, people keep reproducing.

Welnee! Flevoland.

US is empty space mostly, and STILL they build a fence
between Mexico and US.

I wasn't aware it had been approved. Do you have a better
solution to get people to obey the law?

Ever tried to park you car in Amsyterdan center?

Yes. About like New Amsterdam. Not really all that difficult,
unless you're unwilling to pay at peak times. Mostly difficult
because the Dutch Planning AUthorities (Bestemmingsraad)
are totally unwilling to allow large retail development.
And they limit automobile use by limiting parking.

-- Robert

 

[Del Cecchi]

With a fertility rate of 1.64, reproduction isn't why it's "full".


Can you say "illegal"? I thought you could.


No, never tried.


I can tell from here.


Indeed.

Perhaps it has to do with the sort of folks that pin notes to your chest
with a knife because what you said offended them. Ya think?

del

 

[Jan Panteltje]

With a fertility rate of 1.64, reproduction isn't why it's "full".

You forget import from our oversees domains, plus immigration.

Can you say "illegal"? I thought you could.

You mean illegal as to 'it was legal to commit genocide on the original
inhabitants 'injuns' steal their land, and then make your own book of
law and swear on it'? ;-)
As far as I am concerned ol' Sitting Bull is still president.
And he was a better shot too.
LOL

No, never tried.

First time for everything.

 

[Keith]

You forget import from our oversees domains, plus immigration.

No, apparently you "forgot" this little fact (as GM pointed out). IOW,
you're a liar.

whitespace, ya know>

You mean illegal as to 'it was legal to commit genocide on the original
inhabitants 'injuns' steal their land, and then make your own book of
law and swear on it'? ;-)

Ah, and the Dutch were just *so* "white". You're not only a liar, but
ignorant of history.

No, I don't much care what my great grandparents (they weren't here,
incidentally) did to anyone else's great grandparents. We're all here now.

As far as I am concerned ol' Sitting Bull is still president. And he
was a better shot too.

It figures that your hero would be sitting in bull.

LOL

You are an idiot.

First time for everything.

Not when its slithering in that mud-hole you call "Amsyterdan". Say hi to
the folks with the notes.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

No, apparently you "forgot" this little fact (as GM pointed out). IOW,
you're a liar.




Ah, and the Dutch were just *so* "white". You're not only a liar, but
ignorant of history.

No, I don't much care what my great grandparents (they weren't here,
incidentally) did to anyone else's great grandparents. We're all here now.


It figures that your hero would be sitting in bull.


You are an idiot.



Not when its slithering in that mud-hole you call "Amsyterdan". Say hi to
the folks with the notes.

Keep you stupid insults and stay in your US Saudi owned hell.

 

[Keith]

Keep you stupid insults and stay in your US Saudi owned hell.

Don't go away mad... ****in' hypocrite.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Keep you stupid insults and stay in your US Saudi owned hell.

Followups set to pot.kettle.black.black.black...