Not Happy With Vista

[Mr. Happy]

It's not as simple as that. It depends on how big the network is. Is
active directory involved? Are there any 'nix or Novell servers on the
network? Are there any incompatible LOB applications? Are their computers
and other hardware Vista compatible? Do they have remote users? There is
no black and white, yes or no, answer when it comes to upgrading anything
in a business situation. I like to think I'm reasonably competent. I've
been using Vista every day for well over a year and over eight months
exclusively on my Windows computers. I'm pretty sure I know Vista better
than most people. I administer several networks on contract ranging in
size from a couple of PC's to over a hundred. I haven't recommended any of
my business clients upgrade to Vista yet. Even when buying new computers
I'm still recommending XP for them. Once some key personnel are interested
I'll recommend they try Vista at home first for a month or so then at
work. Once they're comfortable and can help other users on their network I
"may" recommend Vista but it will be all or nothing at that point. It
costs a business too much to support two OS' in most cases. It's also much
cheaper to train employees if they have the same OS at home as at work.
It's not that I don't think Vista isn't ready for business use. It's the
other way around. Most businesses are not ready for Vista.

Polling was done in the business community when Vista was first released.
80% of the businesses surveyed didn't have the hardware requirements
necessary to run Vista. Businesses (especially at the enterprise level)
don't update their hardware every couple years, like many individuals do.
Essentially, the vast majority of Vista installs are preloads on recent
hardware purchases. An IT consultant, with thousands of desktops to
administer in a large enterprise is certainly going to have to wait and
probably a long time, before recommending Vista. With the advances we're
seeing in the last couple of years in FOSS, many of these IT professionals
are looking at the stiff hardware requirements and recommending that rather
than waiting to move up to a modern operating system, their existing
hardware infrastructure can easily run Linux without the cost associated
with having to upgrade all that hardware. So the jury is still out and will
be for some time, just how successful Vista will be where it really counts.

Shake Hands With,
Mr. Happy

 

[Terry R.]

Hi Frank,

You missed it on this one. The incompetent consultants ARE recommending
Vista, just so they can increase their bottom line. The competent ones
want to keep their clients working smoothly.

If you have facts to support your statements, I'd love to see them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Terry,
No, you missed it on this one. The competent consultants ARE
recommending Vista because they know what they're doing and are
confident in their abilities.
Whereas the incompetent ones want to keep their clients (the few that
they actually have) and are afraid to recommend Vista because they
haven't yet acuminated themselves to the nuances of Vista.
In other words they're lost and don't know what they're doing.

If you have facts to support your statements, I'd love to see them.
Frank
[/QUOTE]

Hi Frank,

I don't believe a "competent" consultants abilities have anything to do
with recommending an OS upgrade. Nor do I believe those who aren't
recommending Vista are "afraid". But that's your opinion.

Well, our son who works for Raytheon (about 80,000 employees) has said
their IT has no plans for Vista for 4 to 5 years. My wife works for CH2M
(about 18,000 employees) and their IT has no plans for Vista for 4 to 5
years. One daughter works for Previews Int'l (with about 15,000
employees), with no plans for Vista for 4 to 5 years. Another daughter
works for Lee & Associates (about 20,000 employees), with no plans for
Vista for 4 to 5 years. Granted, that's not a majority of business in
the US, but that is the info that I have access to. So by those facts I
come to my conclusion.

We don't consult on that scale (actually small potatoes in comparison),
but even our clients with 5 to 50 seats don't have any immediate plans
for Vista.

The move to XP from Win9x was quite a bit different. Most feel the move
from XP to Vista is more like Win98 to Win98 SE, so they don't want to
expend the costs on a minimal upgrade.


--
Terry R.

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[Terry R.]

On 7/6/2007 11:20 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the
keyboard

"The incompetent consultants ARE...", if that is their actual reason
Very true.
Any consultant giving blanket advice without taking into consideration
the individual organizations needs and circumstances is incompetent.
For some there is legitimate reason to wait, for others, they should
make the move now.
This is very similar to what happened when Windows XP was released
almost 6 years ago and will probably be repeated at the release of the
next OS.
This is not any type of problem, it is simply different organizations
tailoring their purchasing to their needs.

I agree. As I said to Frank, I think most feel XP to Vista is more like
Win98 to Win98 SE. I remember we anticipated the move from Win9x to XP
(most of our clients skipped W2K), because it was a major advancement in
comparison.

--
Terry R.

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[Bruce Chambers]

Can anyone assure me that Vista gets better? For the last two days I have
not been able to install AIM, Itunes Real Player, or just about anything
else. Itunes & Realplayer download, then either disapper and won't install,
or I just get error messages. AIM takes half an hour to install then wont
open. Im truly on the verge of taking the computer back to the store and
getting the old one out and using XP again!

What do problems with any of those applications have to do with Vista?
Contact their respective makers for assistance.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Kerry Brown]

On 7/6/2007 11:20 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the
keyboard


I agree. As I said to Frank, I think most feel XP to Vista is more like
Win98 to Win98 SE. I remember we anticipated the move from Win9x to XP
(most of our clients skipped W2K), because it was a major advancement in
comparison.

I think changing from XP to Vista is like XP to Linux or OS X. It's a
totally different way of thinking about how security works. It may require a
total hardware change. If you must compare Windows to Windows upgrades XP to
Vista would be like going from Windows 3.11 to XP. I'm not thinking in terms
of OS features but in terms of the obstacles to overcome in an existing
business network. No one would dispute that the business would be better off
with XP than 3.11 but the obstacles would cause many admins to think long
and hard and delay the upgrade as long as possible. It is human nature to
not make extra work for oneself even if that extra work will greatly benefit
you down the road. Because of this many business networks are still using
Windows 2000. Vista has a wealth of features that can be managed with Active
Directory. The networking stack is much better suited to high speed
networking, remote networking, etc.. The security is light years better than
XP. There are many reasons why Vista is better for a business network. There
are also many reasons why sticking to XP is more cost effective and easier.
It's like a scale that currently is heavily weighted towards XP. It will
slowly change until it's weighted toward Vista. A big factor is the cost of
training. If a business waits until most of the employees are already using
Vista at home their training costs are significantly reduced.

 

[Cyn]

Let me assure you, though I am just a lowly home user (lots of years of experience with PCs, though) that it does. But it's mostly you getting more used to the issues and finding the right sites to go to to fix them than the actual OS improving as you work out the kinks. It has taken me several months to do that, and to learn the little "quirks" that have surfaced on my PC after the upgrade. And it seems everyone has different ones. And those who say it's always the same with every new "OS" are full of it--I upgraded to XP with virtually no issues at all back when. I waited longer--in fact, my first mistake was buying the hype that made me rush out and buy Vista almost immediately after it went on sale. I've never done that before, but they made it sound so bloody amazing I took a chance!

Patiently Google things and you'll get most of the answers you need. With ITunes, I wound up having to use Winamp and Media Player for my shuffle, but the newest ITunes with my video Pod. Then I found a site called driveragent.com which, for a small fee, scans my computer for missing drivers and sends me to the right sites (or one of their own) to download them. That last one was absolutely a lifesaver, and got all of my "peripherals" working faster than I ever could've done on my own.

So...it's more about Vista training you to deal with its little surprises than Vista improving. After awhile, it's almost fun, Googling to see if you can fix the latest little snafu you've run into. I have become "one" with my PC in this quest. Of course, I've almost thrown it out of the window a few times, too, but...I'm good.

And BTW--I bought a killer little HP laptop with Vista already installed, and it's not bad at all. You still get the annoying, "Are you really smart enough to run this program" popups every time you download or try to install something, but...otherwise...not bad. Nothing as spectacular as I was led to believe by all the pre-sale hype, but none of the craziness upgrades can cause.

Cyn

Can anyone assure me that Vista gets better? For the last two days I have
not been able to install AIM, Itunes Real Player, or just about anything
else. Itunes & Realplayer download, then either disapper and won't install,
or I just get error messages. AIM takes half an hour to install then wont
open. Im truly on the verge of taking the computer back to the store and
getting the old one out and using XP again!

 

[Guest]

I couldn't agree with you more. But your problems are mild compared to mine.
My windows explorer crashes constantly. Rundll errors are legion. Winword
frequently refuses to load. Moving files from one location to another takes
massive amounts of time (on a 3.2 Gig system!), assuming it doesn't freeze
and result in another explorer crash. My display settings revert to lowest
quality with virtually every application change, etc, etc. etc. I have had
assistance from Microsoft, obtained driver updates for problem applications,
used all available (I think) diagnostic programs (including those from
Microsoft), and still problems persist. My newest occured after re-installing
the OS to see if I could thereby eliminate or alleviate any problems. First I
was told my validation (grace-) period had expired and I needed to validate.
OK, no problem, Validation successful. But now, in spite of successsful
validation, I have a message in the lower right-hand corner of the desktop
tellling me my (commercially-purchased,
previously-fully-as-genuine-accredited) copy of windows is not genuine. I
don't know, yet, if this will constitute more than an irritation factor. So
far, identifying real and potential problem causes and potential problem
causes has not resulted in a smoothly-running system.