new to c# but not to programming

[tjones]

Hi, I am guessing this is *THE* nntp newsgroup for C#?

I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Id like to find
employment in the IT industry as a programmer again. My background is a mix
of programming and networking. I have fairly decent skills in C++, Java and
ADA. I have been working as a network engineer on all flavours of windows,
lots of unix, mssql, cisco and others. Currently finishing a master of
science (MSc) in computing/programming. Thesis component/project is based on
genetic algorithms. I have worked previously as a Java and C++ programmer
and have done a lot of work on portal systems i.e. php, mysql etc in the
past. What are my chances of landing a job based on the fact that my last
programming job was around 2 years ago. All up i have arounf 3 years
programming experience in the industry. I have a fairly analytic mind and
feel the network engineering isnt stimulating my interests to the degree i
had hoped. I also hold a degree in mathematics and another in electrical
engineering. I trade the stock/options markets so i have knowledge of
financial derivatives. This might help if im looking for a job in the
financial indistry as a programmer i guess... I am only now looking into C#.
Looks interesting. Much of it familiar to me based on the fact that it is
similar to C++ and Java. Where is the industry heading interms of
programming? Is C# now more popular than VB. I dont know much VB.

Any help appreciated!
cheers,
tjones

 

[Mark Broadbent]

Hi tjones, your background sounds a bit like me, although rather than Java
and C++ I used perhaps less "indemand" languages VB, Pascal etc.
I've been really looking for the ideal C# job for around six months now and
I must say that I have become quite frustrated with development employers.
They generally seem very blinkered in what they want - not employing for
potential but for an *exact* fit.
I have been offered a couple of positions early on (one in VB.net and one in
C#) but there was various reasons why they were not for me -so Im starting
to broaden my search now.

Having read through your skill set, I thing you would stand quite a good
chance of landing something as you have a lot of key things going for you
that the industry is looking for ...more namely C++, Java, an Msc
(hopefully). The two other things that seem to be currently missing on your
list is C# and Oracle -so these would possibly be your areas of study.

You ask whether C# is now more popular than VB. Well I guess that is open to
debate (but I think yes-certainly for new programmers). If the question is
"is C# a better language than VB" then my opinion is also yes (he gets ready
for the onslaught from VB programmers). I think it is a far cleaner language
and helps promote a good OOP thinking and design. And yes C# has much in
common with Java and C++ (closer to Java perhaps), the great thing was that
they had a clean slate to start from wheras VB.net designers didn't.

Having spoken (briefly) to a couple of insiders I get the impression that
focus is being shifted more to C#, but I think VB.net will still be around
for a good while yet -and you never know what is around the corner. It is
possible something will come out that will blow away OOP.

So in brief I would say learn C#, and go full steam ahead towards the job
you want -you've got a great chance of getting there.

Hope this helps.
--
Best Regards,

Mark

Mark Broadbent

mcad,mcdba,mcse+i
emailto: newsgroupsATmettayyaDOTgotadslDOTcoDOTuk
remove AT with '@' and DOT with '.' -please do not send spam or address will
be changed!

 

[Guest]

Don't know what it's like in America but in Britain, the jobs market seems to
have switched from completely VB6 based to about 80% C#, 10% VB.NET, 10% VB6.
Although most of the C# jobs are really ASP.NET jobs. It seems like ASP.NET
is quite lucrative in Britain at the moment, even though the market is just
coming out of a downturn.
People don't want windows forms apps so much that they'll employ somebody to
do it specially. Windows forms apps are something you "knock up" - not
something you plan for ages beforehand and recruit a whole development team
for.
There's very little demand for C++ skill, or so it seems to me. As far as I
can tell, C++ seems to be a language that you write something in during your
own time, and then maybe sell that application - not something you do in your
9-5 job.
Neural networks and genetic algorithms - glossed over them briefly in my
degree, but even then I could tell that the jobs market was far more
database-oriented than "sophisticated algorithm"-oriented.

 

[Mark Broadbent]

Hi bonj.
Im in UK too and you are bang on the money with what you say about ASP.NET.
I completely forgot about that. It does seem that the vast majority of
C#/.NET jobs are for ASP.NET development -I think this phenomenom is global
which I believe Microsoft are trying to address by introducing their
one-click deployment of WinForms though.
I would possibly say VB.net is slightly higher %, although in the summer it
seemed massively high -and this is possibly an indication of how fast C# is
being adopted.

--
Best Regards,

Mark

Mark Broadbent

mcad,mcdba,mcse+i
emailto: newsgroupsATmettayyaDOTgotadslDOTcoDOTuk
remove AT with '@' and DOT with '.' -please do not send spam or address will
be changed!

 

[clintonG]

It never ceases to amaze me to observe how seemingly intelligent
people fail to understand that working as an employee is only a
stop gap measure that in very rare exceptions has led to any
acquisition of wealth and without question has very little benefit
with regard to obtaining healthcare, savings, acquisiton of the finer
things in life and so on.

Any remaining opportunities are there for the taking and will
continue to be there for the taking for those who develop and sell
their own product(s) and service(s).

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher, "Twice the Results -- Half the Cost"
Architectural & e-Business Consulting -- Software Development
NET (e-mail address removed)
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

 

[Mark Broadbent]

Not exactly sure where you are going with this one Clinton, but if I
understand you correctly you are suggesting that people who are trying to
gain employment are stupid because very rarely will these jobs pay dividends
and on that basis the real money is to be made creating your own business?

Well if that is what you are saying then all I can say is that I wish it was
that easy. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I am a UK citizen. As
individuals we are taxed to the hilt. As owners of a small businesses we are
taxed to the extreme. I've ran my own Limited company in the past (as a
contractor) but the current government decided to introduce new tax laws to
take even more money from the masses. In the UK it is probably now more
beneficial -financially and otherwise to be an employee....and yes I agree
with you the returns for that are relatively small -if this make's me and
others "seemingly intelligent" .i.e stupid then that's your call. I just
call it being realistic.

I see you are in the States and things might be different there -although I
thought things were similar there now. If not then I congratulate you on
your success and long may it continue.

--
Best Regards,

Mark

Mark Broadbent

mcad,mcdba,mcse+i
emailto: newsgroupsATmettayyaDOTgotadslDOTcoDOTuk
remove AT with '@' and DOT with '.' -please do not send spam or address will
be changed!

 

[clintonG]

Well Mark, I wouldn't go as far as saying someone was stupid for seeking a
job as there are always extenuating circumstances to consider.

My best friend is driving a school bus for the last two years. He happens to
be one of the most intelligent persons I have ever known and is highly
skilled in software development.

Our freedoms and liberties in the U.S. have lost ground to facism which has
displaced me from the profession of architecture and is destroying the lives
of millions of Americans so your not alone in being taxed into becoming a
serf or being prevented by law from working because corporate pimps pay the
government to prevent competition.

Still, this world remains one of opportunity that does abound regardless and
its there for those of us who find a way to reach out and take it.

<%= Clinton Gallagher

 

[Mark Broadbent]

Haha nice one . I think we have very similar views - but don't get me
started on Corporate Globalisation/ Capitalism.

Conspiracy theory time
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/

....Still if I owned McBurger King and the like I wouldn't be complaining ;-)

--
Best Regards,

Mark

Mark Broadbent

mcad,mcdba,mcse+i
emailto: newsgroupsATmettayyaDOTgotadslDOTcoDOTuk
remove AT with '@' and DOT with '.' -please do not send spam or address will
be changed!

 

[tjones]

Hi Mark, thanks so much for your response. I really appreciate it. I was
away and just got home and found a heap of responses. Just here to say
thanks.

Hi tjones, your background sounds a bit like me, although rather than Java
and C++ I used perhaps less "indemand" languages VB, Pascal etc.
I've been really looking for the ideal C# job for around six months now
and I must say that I have become quite frustrated with development
employers. They generally seem very blinkered in what they want - not
employing for potential but for an *exact* fit.

I am finding this to be the same situation here in Australia. It does get
rather frustrating. They want you to come into the job with the perfect
skill set. They tend to shy away from people who are adaptable.

Having read through your skill set, I thing you would stand quite a good
chance of landing something as you have a lot of key things going for you
that the industry is looking for ...more namely C++, Java, an Msc
(hopefully). The two other things that seem to be currently missing on
your list is C# and Oracle -so these would possibly be your areas of
study.

Oracle.. tell me about it. The number of Oracle jobs around here is huge. I
have worked a lot on mssql, but industry is heading towards Oracle im
finding.

You ask whether C# is now more popular than VB. Well I guess that is open
to debate (but I think yes-certainly for new programmers). If the question
is "is C# a better language than VB" then my opinion is also yes (he gets
ready for the onslaught from VB programmers). I think it is a far cleaner
language and helps promote a good OOP thinking and design. And yes C# has
much in common with Java and C++ (closer to Java perhaps), the great thing
was that they had a clean slate to start from wheras VB.net designers
didn't.

I think I'll head towards C# due to its commonality with C++ and Java. There
are a lot of .NET jobs here in Australia, aswell as Java positions. Most of
the C++ are either academic positions, or more scientifically oriented
positions. I heard rumour that ADA will be integrated into VS. That will be
fantastic. I've written a fair bit of code on ADA. It has beautiful
threading capabilities as compared to Java. I'll persist and look for that
programming job. Thanks so much for your insight.

Would you recommend getting certified in mcad etc? I have a few network
related certs like msce+i, mcdba, ccnp, oca (like yourself) however I dont
want to waste my money on something if it wont be of any value. Within the
programming community, is a certification becoming a requirement? I don't
know much about programming based certs.

Thanks again!
Cheers,
tjones

 

[Mark Broadbent]

np m8.

Would I recommend getting certified?
Well it will not necessarily get you a job, but it will certainly help get
interviews. You may still find that once in the interviews you still get the
same "well we need someone who has done X for 2 years and Y for 3 years etc"
but there is no way around that apart from convincing them you are the man.

Forgetting that though, the main reason I have done the mcad (and mcsd
before years out possibly) is because :-
1. I have touched certain things that I would not have done so otherwise
(unless I was in a job that had that particular business requirement) -one
such example is Remoting
2. I wanted to have that bit of paper (for reasons detailed in first para)
3. It encouraged me to learn C# in a more detailed manner than I would
normally have done
4. I have learnt (pretty well) most OOP concepts.

I am also finding that there are an awful lot of languages now that
previously I would have struggled with but now I can pretty much take in
what I am reading -for instance Javascript was conceptually a bit of problem
before - but now I can see certain things and think "well that's not quite
OOP" or "thats a bit different -but could be quite useful (e.g. functions as
objects)" and the information sticks.

Exams and books will cost you money but do one at a time (and take them ONLY
when you are ready).
If you do that, I would personally encourage you to get to the MCAD without
doing the ASP.net route (go winforms) because asp.net is a bit off centre to
pure OOP client/ server programming.

I'm now doing my Web asp.net exam next (glad I've left it to now for the
above reason) and then after that only got the final Solution Architectures
exam.

The programming based certs are very similar in format to the other MCPs - I
bought a good book for each exam and got the Transcender MCSD PAK (yes more
money I know!). You could probably find sample questions on the net. Using
datasets and ADO.net feature quite heavily on most of the development exams.

Don't be intimidated by them -cos they are attainable if you want them.

--
Best Regards,

Mark

Mark Broadbent

mcad,mcdba,mcse+i
emailto: newsgroupsATmettayyaDOTgotadslDOTcoDOTuk
remove AT with '@' and DOT with '.' -please do not send spam or address will
be changed!