New AMD 64 System

[me!!]

Hi

Im going to get a AMD 64 2800+ or 3000+ cpu and an asus K8V Deluxe
Mobo. Can you have a look at my current system and tell me if i need
to replace anything else. Im sure jus a new mobo and cpu should do it.

Asus A7N8x-E Deluxe
Athlon XP 3200+ 400 FSB
3x 256MB Kingston PC3200 RAM ( 768MB Total )
Maxtor 80GB 7200 RPM IDE HDD
IBM 60GB 7200 RPM IDE HDD
Radeon 9800 PRO 128MB AGP card
Audigy 2 ZS
Aver Freeview PCI Card
Floppy drive
Lite On 8x Dual Format DVD Writer
Plextor 52x32x52 CDRW
Creative 6.1 speakers
USB Media Reader.

Fairly certain everything else is ok to go in new system. I will use
the ide hard drives for now, but might get a single 160gb SATA drive
in the future and buy a couple of external housing for the ide hard
drives.

Then i will try to recoup some of what i spend by offering the a7n8x-e
and barton 3200+ cpu on ebay for a hundred and twenty quid or so.

Cheers for any advice.

paul

 

[Paul]

Hi

Im going to get a AMD 64 2800+ or 3000+ cpu and an asus K8V Deluxe
Mobo. Can you have a look at my current system and tell me if i need
to replace anything else. Im sure jus a new mobo and cpu should do it.

Asus A7N8x-E Deluxe
Athlon XP 3200+ 400 FSB
3x 256MB Kingston PC3200 RAM ( 768MB Total )
Maxtor 80GB 7200 RPM IDE HDD
IBM 60GB 7200 RPM IDE HDD
Radeon 9800 PRO 128MB AGP card
Audigy 2 ZS
Aver Freeview PCI Card
Floppy drive
Lite On 8x Dual Format DVD Writer
Plextor 52x32x52 CDRW
Creative 6.1 speakers
USB Media Reader.

Fairly certain everything else is ok to go in new system. I will use
the ide hard drives for now, but might get a single 160gb SATA drive
in the future and buy a couple of external housing for the ide hard
drives.

Then i will try to recoup some of what i spend by offering the a7n8x-e
and barton 3200+ cpu on ebay for a hundred and twenty quid or so.

Cheers for any advice.

paul

Page 38 of the manual, shows how the kind of DIMMs you use,
restrict the memory bus operating speed. Since the processor
now drives the memory directly, this is a function of the
way the processor is designed, and not the motherboard:

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/sock754/k8v/e1421b_k8v_deluxe.pdf

The datasheet for the Athlon64, shows it can run the memory bus
async to the FSB. Page 14 of this doc shows the speed options:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/24659.PDF

I don't expect problems. Try your current memory, and it may
just decide to go at DDR400 anyway (it will be a luck of the
draw thing). If it isn't memtest86 stable (memtest.org), then
buy a 512MB PC3200 stick to replace the two 256MB sticks, and
maybe that will be enough to make a difference. For best
performance on most processors, you want the FSB and memory
clocks to be synchronous, or having the same speed. The
reason for this, is synchronous operation allows the
removal of resynchronization latches and the attendant
increase in latency they cause.

The manual I quote above, is probably not the board you are
buying, as there are newer models of the K8V line that will
currently be available at retail. Go to the Asus download page
to locate the one you want.

The other thing to notice in this motherboard transition, is the
K8V has a ATX 12V 2x2 power plug, just like a P4 board. This
means the processor no longer draws its current from +5V, like
on the A7N8X, but now the load is moved to the +12V output of
your power supply. You may want to investigate whether your PS
is a good match for the new board, in terms of output on the
+12V rail. And also, whether your PS has the necessary 2x2
square plug.

HTH,
Paul

 

[D]

So why upgrade to a 64 bit o/s, unless you use linux, when there is only a
beta win o/s that can utilise the hardware, and there is v.little software
that can take advantage of 64 bit.
By the time any software is available, late 2005 if that can be believed,
I'm sure you will have needed to upgrade at least a dozen times!
I note that yr hd's are quite small so I take it yr not doing anything
significant.
Quite frankly yr waisting yr money, you would probably get more bang out of
yr existing setup by using twin sata stripped drives and matched memory, and
assuming yr gaming changing the video card. - but then I'm only bitter and
twisted.

 

[john]

So why upgrade to a 64 bit o/s, unless you use linux, when there is only a
beta win o/s that can utilise the hardware, and there is v.little software
that can take advantage of 64 bit.

People seem to miss the point that the amd64 cpu's run 32bit faster
than Athlon XP's and do it with less heat. The key factor is the
800Mhz FSB matching Intel's old advantage.

The ability to run 64bit is just a bonus.

Of course, Amd64's will still be running software long after 32 bit
cpu's get tossed.

 

[Natéag]

Will it run WindowsXP ? I guess yes, but am not sure.

 

[SPRITE1001]

Yep, runs XP without an issue. Currently running XP Pro service pack 1.

Your setup looks pretty decent tho like Paul said you dont want to run 3 DIMM's
for your RAM. you can only run a max of 2 DIMMs if you intend to run it at
400mhz.

I'd recomend picking up one 512 meg for now then pick up another later when you
can afford it.

Having this board I can tell you the thing is a bit picky about its ram so make
sure you test it out with memtest87+. Its a memory testing program that loads
from a floppy at boot.

Cheers
Arie

 

[Ken Maltby]

So why upgrade to a 64 bit o/s, unless you use linux, when there is only a
beta win o/s that can utilise the hardware, and there is v.little software
that can take advantage of 64 bit.
By the time any software is available, late 2005 if that can be believed,
I'm sure you will have needed to upgrade at least a dozen times!
I note that yr hd's are quite small so I take it yr not doing anything
significant.
Quite frankly yr waisting yr money, you would probably get more bang out of
yr existing setup by using twin sata stripped drives and matched memory, and
assuming yr gaming changing the video card. - but then I'm only bitter and
twisted.


http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/24659.PDF

You might want to consider that the 939 boards should be
out soon, possibly later this month.

If nothing else, the price of the current boards & CPU should
fall.

Luck;
Ken

 

[Roland Scheidegger]

You might want to consider that the 939 boards should be
out soon, possibly later this month.

If nothing else, the price of the current boards & CPU should
fall.

Doesn't look so unfortunately, the prices of the new socket 939 cpus amd
offers are sky-high (slowest one 500 USD!!!), higher than anything AMD
offers currently on socket 754, obviously AMD doesn't want/can't ship
high volumes right now.
OTOH, some intel prescotts 3.6/3.8/4.0 would surely have a healthy
effect on those AMD prices ;-). Not sure exactly when (if?) intel
manages to do that though, iirc the 3.6 should be out fairly soon when
socket-T/LGA775 is launched (and the 3.6 might not be enough to drive
amd prices down if it's itself priced above current P4 instead of
driving their prices down).

Roland

 

[Ken Maltby]

Doesn't look so unfortunately, the prices of the new socket 939 cpus amd
offers are sky-high (slowest one 500 USD!!!), higher than anything AMD
offers currently on socket 754, obviously AMD doesn't want/can't ship
high volumes right now.
OTOH, some intel prescotts 3.6/3.8/4.0 would surely have a healthy
effect on those AMD prices ;-). Not sure exactly when (if?) intel
manages to do that though, iirc the 3.6 should be out fairly soon when
socket-T/LGA775 is launched (and the 3.6 might not be enough to drive
amd prices down if it's itself priced above current P4 instead of
driving their prices down).

Roland

So far, accurately predicting future price or performance in this
area is about as likely as predicting the winning Lotto numbers.
It is also true that "there's always something better on the horizon".

I just think that this may be one of those times when a real
change is likely to show within a month or so. Those who bought
the first flavor of P4, might agree that it could be worth the wait.
{It might be : "Those who fail to profit from history are doomed
to repeat it." or it might not.}

Luck;
Ken

 

[Roland Scheidegger]

So far, accurately predicting future price or performance in this
area is about as likely as predicting the winning Lotto numbers.

Actually, that's not quite true. cpu pricing is in fact, quite
predictable (though more so for intel cpus than for amd). intel's
pricing scheme looks exactly the same since 2 years or so now. Whenever
they introduce a new cpu, the price is the same as the former
highest-grade cpu (so when introducing the 3.4, it cost the same as the
3.2 did before). All existing cpus shift down their price point one
notch at the same time (i.e. the 3.2 now costs as much as the 3.0 did).
The pattern changed slightly, because of the EE editions (so the top
spot is way more expensive than before, but the non-EE topspot is
cheaper than before).
AMD pretty much follows intels pricing pattern since some time now
(there official prices are _exactly_ the same as intels for all A64 cpus
with the equivalent rating).
But, what happened this time with the new athlon 64 cpus, is that amd
prices them way above all existing cpus, instead of making the other
cheaper. This indicates they are waiting for intel to introduce
higher-speed cpus (with the equivalent rating) and waiting for intel to
cut prices.
So, the only question remaining is, WHEN will the prices be cut (the new
prices themselves are already known). Most recent information I've seen
indicated june 21 as the launch date for a 3.6Ghz Prescott (lga-775).
So, if you're lucky, the prices will get some adjustment then, but the
roadmap indicate intel will follow amd's pattern and introduce that chip
above the others. Next intel pricecut is supposed to be on August 22,
expect AMD to cut prices at the same time (though AMD retail prices do
not follow official prices that strictly as intel prices, especially
when there is an official price cut soon, amd prices always begin to
drop some time (weeks/month) before that slowly, intel prices in
contrast really get cut the day the price cut is announced) which is
quite a long time to wait...
You can get that information for instance here:
http://freespace.virgin.net/m.warner/CPUPricesIntel.htm
(of course, it does not necessarily need to be true. You can find lots
of other websites all telling you the same, which does not increase
reliability since they are all using the same sources. Still, the
information you can find that way is typically fairly accurate.)

It is also true that "there's always something better on the horizon".

No objections...

I just think that this may be one of those times when a real
change is likely to show within a month or so.

I just wouldn't bet "within a month". IMHO more likely is "within 3 month".

Roland

 

[Ben Pope]

Roland Scheidegger wrote:

I just wouldn't bet "within a month". IMHO more likely is "within 3
month".

Roland

You've obviously been studying

I tend to agree with you... since 939 is new technology, that doesn't really
replace any existing technology (754 will be phased out over a year or so,
but 939 is not really replacing it) expect to pay a premium for it (and any
other Dual Channel 64bit processor). It doesn't necessarily mean price cuts
until faster models come out WITH competition. I haven't been following
prices at all really, so I'm just guessing.

Ben

 

[Ken Maltby]

Actually, that's not quite true. cpu pricing is in fact, quite
predictable (though more so for intel cpus than for amd). intel's
pricing scheme looks exactly the same since 2 years or so now. Whenever
they introduce a new cpu, the price is the same as the former
highest-grade cpu (so when introducing the 3.4, it cost the same as the
3.2 did before). All existing cpus shift down their price point one
notch at the same time (i.e. the 3.2 now costs as much as the 3.0 did).
The pattern changed slightly, because of the EE editions (so the top
spot is way more expensive than before, but the non-EE topspot is
cheaper than before).
AMD pretty much follows intels pricing pattern since some time now
(there official prices are _exactly_ the same as intels for all A64 cpus
with the equivalent rating).
But, what happened this time with the new athlon 64 cpus, is that amd
prices them way above all existing cpus, instead of making the other
cheaper. This indicates they are waiting for intel to introduce
higher-speed cpus (with the equivalent rating) and waiting for intel to
cut prices.
So, the only question remaining is, WHEN will the prices be cut (the new
prices themselves are already known). Most recent information I've seen
indicated june 21 as the launch date for a 3.6Ghz Prescott (lga-775).
So, if you're lucky, the prices will get some adjustment then, but the
roadmap indicate intel will follow amd's pattern and introduce that chip
above the others. Next intel pricecut is supposed to be on August 22,
expect AMD to cut prices at the same time (though AMD retail prices do
not follow official prices that strictly as intel prices, especially
when there is an official price cut soon, amd prices always begin to
drop some time (weeks/month) before that slowly, intel prices in
contrast really get cut the day the price cut is announced) which is
quite a long time to wait...
You can get that information for instance here:
http://freespace.virgin.net/m.warner/CPUPricesIntel.htm
(of course, it does not necessarily need to be true. You can find lots
of other websites all telling you the same, which does not increase
reliability since they are all using the same sources. Still, the
information you can find that way is typically fairly accurate.)

Roland

I bow to your obviously greater understanding of the factors
involved. Say, you don't pick stocks; do you?

Luck;
Ken

 

[Ed]

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:25:30 +0200, Roland Scheidegger


Talking about CPU prices, heres a blast from the past...
Cheers,
Ed(USA)

THE CHIP MERCHANT 09/20/1996
----------------------------
Pentium 166 $398.00
Pentium 200 $627.00

AMD K5-90 $59.00
AMD K5-100 $82.00

CYRIX 6X86-P150+ $155.00
CYRIX 6X86-P166+ $256.00


THE CHIP MERCHANT 06/30/1997
----------------------------------
Pentium 166 MMX (Box) $326.00
Pentium 200 MMX (Box) $525.00
Pentium 233 MMX (Box) $640.00
P-II 233 512k (Box) $675.00
P-II 266 512k (Box) $865.00
P-Pro 200 512k $1055.00

AMD K5 133 $76.00
AMD K5 166 $95.00
AMD K6 166 $220.00
AMD K6 200 $270.00
AMD K6 233 $495.00

Cyrix 6x86-PR166+ $74.00
Cyrix 6x86L-PR-200+ $92.00
Cyrix 6x86-PR-200+ $103.00

32MB SDRAM 4x64-10ns 168pin $156.00
64MB SDRAM 8x64-10ns 168pin $390.00


THE CHIP MERCHANT 03/08/1999
----------------------------
Intel Celeron 333/128K Box $84.00
Intel Celeron 400/128K OEM $152.00
Intel Pentium II® 333/512 OEM $150.00
Intel Pentium III® 450/512 Box $545.00
Intel Pentium III® 500/512 Box $745.00

AMD-K62™-350/100MHz OEM $95.00
AMD-K62™-350/100MHz Box $105.00
AMD-K62™-400/100MHz OEM $174.00

CYRIX® MII-300GP 66MHz Bus $46.00
CYRIX® MII-333GP 83MHz Bus $57.00

PC100 4X64 [32MB] $45.00
PC100 8X64 [64MB] $85.00
PC100 16X64 [128MB] $168.00
PC100 32X64 [256MB] $447.00


Today's average CPU prices.
-----------------------
P4 3.4GHz EE $1054
P4 3.4GHz Prescot $489
P4 3.2GHz Prescot $294
P4 3.2GHz EE $895
P4 3.06 533 $217

AMD64 FX 53 939 $839
AMD64 FX 53 $761
A64 3800+ $698
A64 3500+ $485
A64 3400+ $398
A64 3200+ $268
AXP 3200+ 400 $150

 

[Creeping Stone]

Talking about CPU prices, heres a blast from the past...
<snip old cpu prices>
Cheers,
Ed(USA)

Haha, Great posting! - mind boggling how the technology has been evolving.

 

[Ed]

Haha, Great posting! - mind boggling how the technology has been evolving.

MORE?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Top 10 or 12 lowest priced vendors on www.pricewatch.com
Prices include OEM and Retail boxed and may or may not include S&H.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
******** Fri. Feb 01 2002 02:06pm CT ********
CPU Name Avg Low Entries
Athlon XP 2000 $268 $261 10
Athlon XP 1500 $102 $99 10

Athlon 1.4GHz 266 FSB $97 $93 10
Athlon 1.1GHz 200 FSB $82 $76 10

Duron 1.3GHz $97 $89 9
Duron 1GHz $48 $45 10

Pentium 4 2.2GHz Sock 478 $547 $530 10
Pentium 4 2.0GHz Sock 478 $338 $332 10
Pentium 4 1.5GHz Sock 478 $135 $123 10

Pentium III 1.26GHz 512K $257 $238 10
Pentium III 1GHz $115 $111 10

Celeron 1.1GHz $76 $72 10
Celeron 1GHz $69 $66 10

Via-Cyrix 700 $40 $39 2



******** Sat Feb 01 2003 07:01pm CT ********
CPU Name Avg Low Entries
Athlon XP 3000 $632 $624 8
Athlon XP 2800 $406 $399 8
Athlon XP 2500 $197 $193 6
Athlon XP 2000 $72 $69 10
Athlon XP 1500 $51 $39 10

Duron 1.3GHz $37 $35 10
Duron 1.2GHz $34 $30 10
Duron 1.1GHz $28 $25 10

Pentium 4 3.06GHz $631 $625 10
Pentium 4 2.8GHz $371 $362 10
Pentium 4 2.6GHz $272 $261 10
Pentium 4 2.0GHz Sock 478 $152 $142 10
Pentium 4 1.5GHz Sock 478 $109 $104 10

Celeron 2.0GHz $88 $82 10
Celeron 1.8GHz $71 $65 10
Celeron 1.7GHz $55 $52 10



******** Fri Jan 02 2004 01:23 am CT ********
CPU Name Avg Low Entries
Athlon 64 FX $738 $722 12

Athlon 64 3200 $404 $403 12
Athlon 64 3000 $227 $213 12

Athlon XP 3200 400 $310 $289 12
Athlon XP 3000 400 $237 $199 7
Athlon XP 2800 333 $134 $128 12
Athlon XP 2600 333 $90 $84 12
Athlon XP 2400 $71 $68 12

Pentium 4 3.2GHz 800 2MB EE $966 $909 8

Pentium 4 3.2GHz 800 $392 $370 12
Pentium 4 3.0GHz 800 $270 $266 12
Pentium 4 2.8GHz 800 $208 $197 12
Pentium 4 2.6GHz 800 $173 $166 12
Pentium 4 2.4GHz 800 $160 $156 12



******** Mon May 31 2004 02:01 pm CT ********
CPU Name Avg Low Entries
Xeon 3.2GHz 533FSB 1MB $833 $791 5
Xeon 3.0GHz 533FSB 1MB $632 $550 5

Opteron 850 $1605 $1605 1
Opteron 848 $1274 $1248 4
Opteron 846 $914 $855 5

Athlon 64 FX 53 $750 $732 12
Athlon 64 FX 51 $750 $727 12

Athlon 64 3400 $398 $369 12
Athlon 64 3200 $268 $255 12

Athlon XP 3200 400 $148 $135 12


Pentium 4 3.4GHz 800MHz 2MB Extreme $1057 $1015 12
Pentium 4 3.2GHz 800MHz 2MB Extreme $892 $857 12

Pentium 4 3.4GHz Prescott $485 $473 7
Pentium 4 3.2GHz Prescott $293 $285 12

Pentium 4 3.4GHz 800MHz $406 $399 12
Pentium 4 3.2GHz 800MHz $269 $262 12

************************************************************

 

[Creeping Stone]

Haha, Great posting! - mind boggling how the technology has been evolving.

MORE?

Well it was these that made me chuckle first,

P-II 233 512k (Box) $675.00
P-II 266 512k (Box) $865.00
P-Pro 200 512k $1055.00

Thinking in a few years, the P4 Extreme might be seen as weedy as those
chips seem now. But while, on one hand, it all seems relative, on the other
hand processing power can be set against practical milestones, where chips
with enough power are capable of certain types of work, and others arent.

So PIIs and slow PIIIs really bagged the bloated office suite and OS
requirements but arent up to comfortably dealing with media processing,
while P4s and AthlonXPs can. What is hoped for upgrading beyond besides
smoother frames for gamers? The power to smoothly juggle virtual machines
maybe, and in a couple of years time - realtime Video
transcription/translation, watching security cameras...voice input ??
A few more years, intellegent virtual butlers ?

I remember reading with glee about a chip in a lab that was 32bit and
running 100 Mhz when cooled with liquid nitrogen. That was when I was a
kid, obsessed with a Vic20 -in awe of C64. Mastertronic tapes and 'input'
magazines in the newsagent. It was very exciting.

I can see how for those with a suitable disposable income, some
satisfaction can be got from driving the very latest chips like the P4EE
and Opteron now, but they dont seem to break any new performance barriers.
Im still 100% satisfied with my tweaked and now undervolted XP2000's
performance, but then I do have to stay away from computer games having
junked-out on them in the past.

-I thought the old price lists were quite poigniant to the scope of this
upgrading thread. But for those who crave the bestest, best wishes to them,
its no so expensive compared to other hobbies :]

cheers,