.NET vs Java opinion!

[Ronchese]

Hello, guys.

I need some help to convince the bosses to adopt the .Net in my work. I
really believe that .Net is the BEST option to use, therefore the opinions
must be with no passions.

I already exposed it:

- we are MS-based professionals (large experience in VB, ASP, and some good
experience in .Net on our own), therefore the migration/code quality/bugs
will reach the best results;
- .Net is more faster than Java;
- .Net is more productive
- .The .Net have the best control components. Examples: in Java, poor
layout, some bugs, less recurses (like intrisec right-clicks in textboxes,
amoung other things), and etc., etc.


The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because MONO is really
young, for now;
- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and requires
softwares that run in Linux.


There are some imparcial researches and comparisions so I can convince that
..Net is the best way?

Thx in advance!

[]s
Cesar

 

[Ken Dopierala Jr.]

Hi,

Here is a link to a good blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/dweller/archive/2004/09/21/232490.aspx

The blog has a link to an independent study of Websphere/Linux vs.
..NET/Windows Server 2003.

Here is the punch line:
"On the same hardware, the software licensing costs on the IBM/Linux side
were $253,996. On the Microsoft side: $19,294." Your bank customer will
probably be interested in those numbers.

Good luck! Ken.

 

[Guest]

..NET is a great platform and I would certainly recommend it over Java.
However, from the bussiness perspective, if your customer wants Java, do
adopt Java without a hesitation.
Aleksey Nudelman
http://csharpcomputing.com

Hi,

Here is a link to a good blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/dweller/archive/2004/09/21/232490.aspx

The blog has a link to an independent study of Websphere/Linux vs.
..NET/Windows Server 2003.

Here is the punch line:
"On the same hardware, the software licensing costs on the IBM/Linux side
were $253,996. On the Microsoft side: $19,294." Your bank customer will
probably be interested in those numbers.

Good luck! Ken.

Hello, guys.

I need some help to convince the bosses to adopt the .Net in my work. I
really believe that .Net is the BEST option to use, therefore the opinions
must be with no passions.

I already exposed it:

- we are MS-based professionals (large experience in VB, ASP, and some good
experience in .Net on our own), therefore the migration/code quality/bugs
will reach the best results;
- .Net is more faster than Java;
- .Net is more productive
- .The .Net have the best control components. Examples: in Java, poor
layout, some bugs, less recurses (like intrisec right-clicks in textboxes,
amoung other things), and etc., etc.


The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because MONO is really
young, for now;
- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and requires
softwares that run in Linux.


There are some imparcial researches and comparisions so I can convince that
.Net is the best way?

Thx in advance!

[]s
Cesar

 

[Ronchese]

But it is a opinion from just one customer.
And, to the future, this customer perhaps will change your mind.

.NET is a great platform and I would certainly recommend it over Java.
However, from the bussiness perspective, if your customer wants Java, do
adopt Java without a hesitation.
Aleksey Nudelman
http://csharpcomputing.com

Hi,

Here is a link to a good blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/dweller/archive/2004/09/21/232490.aspx

The blog has a link to an independent study of Websphere/Linux vs.
..NET/Windows Server 2003.

Here is the punch line:
"On the same hardware, the software licensing costs on the IBM/Linux side
were $253,996. On the Microsoft side: $19,294." Your bank customer will
probably be interested in those numbers.

Good luck! Ken.

Hello, guys.

I need some help to convince the bosses to adopt the .Net in my work. I
really believe that .Net is the BEST option to use, therefore the opinions
must be with no passions.

I already exposed it:

- we are MS-based professionals (large experience in VB, ASP, and some good
experience in .Net on our own), therefore the migration/code quality/bugs
will reach the best results;
- .Net is more faster than Java;
- .Net is more productive
- .The .Net have the best control components. Examples: in Java, poor
layout, some bugs, less recurses (like intrisec right-clicks in textboxes,
amoung other things), and etc., etc.


The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because MONO is really
young, for now;
- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and requires
softwares that run in Linux.


There are some imparcial researches and comparisions so I can convince that
.Net is the best way?

Thx in advance!

[]s
Cesar

 

[Ronchese]

Thx, Ken.

That article is interesting. And the punch line, you get that from where?

Hi,

Here is a link to a good blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/dweller/archive/2004/09/21/232490.aspx

The blog has a link to an independent study of Websphere/Linux vs.
.NET/Windows Server 2003.

Here is the punch line:
"On the same hardware, the software licensing costs on the IBM/Linux side
were $253,996. On the Microsoft side: $19,294." Your bank customer will
probably be interested in those numbers.

Good luck! Ken.

Hello, guys.

I need some help to convince the bosses to adopt the .Net in my work. I
really believe that .Net is the BEST option to use, therefore the opinions
must be with no passions.

I already exposed it:

- we are MS-based professionals (large experience in VB, ASP, and some good
experience in .Net on our own), therefore the migration/code quality/bugs
will reach the best results;
- .Net is more faster than Java;
- .Net is more productive
- .The .Net have the best control components. Examples: in Java, poor
layout, some bugs, less recurses (like intrisec right-clicks in textboxes,
amoung other things), and etc., etc.


The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because MONO is really
young, for now;
- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and requires
softwares that run in Linux.


There are some imparcial researches and comparisions so I can convince that
.Net is the best way?

Thx in advance!

[]s
Cesar

 

[Colin Young]

Most of the financial industry uses Java. I don't expect that to change much
in the near future. Even if every financial institution in the world decided
to adopt .Net on Monday, it would still be several years before the switch
was complete.

Colin

But it is a opinion from just one customer.
And, to the future, this customer perhaps will change your mind.

.NET is a great platform and I would certainly recommend it over Java.
However, from the bussiness perspective, if your customer wants Java, do
adopt Java without a hesitation.
Aleksey Nudelman
http://csharpcomputing.com

work.

I

really believe that .Net is the BEST option to use, therefore the opinions
must be with no passions.

I already exposed it:

- we are MS-based professionals (large experience in VB, ASP, and some
good
experience in .Net on our own), therefore the migration/code quality/bugs
will reach the best results;
- .Net is more faster than Java;
- .Net is more productive
- .The .Net have the best control components. Examples: in Java, poor
layout, some bugs, less recurses (like intrisec right-clicks in textboxes,
amoung other things), and etc., etc.


The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because MONO is
really
young, for now;
- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and requires
softwares that run in Linux.


There are some imparcial researches and comparisions so I can convince
that
.Net is the best way?

Thx in advance!

[]s
Cesar

 

[Ken Dopierala Jr.]

Hi,

The punch line was a quote from a line in the blog. Ken.

Thx, Ken.

That article is interesting. And the punch line, you get that from where?

Hi,

Here is a link to a good blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/dweller/archive/2004/09/21/232490.aspx

The blog has a link to an independent study of Websphere/Linux vs.
.NET/Windows Server 2003.

Here is the punch line:
"On the same hardware, the software licensing costs on the IBM/Linux side
were $253,996. On the Microsoft side: $19,294." Your bank customer will
probably be interested in those numbers.

Good luck! Ken.

Hello, guys.

I need some help to convince the bosses to adopt the .Net in my work. I
really believe that .Net is the BEST option to use, therefore the opinions
must be with no passions.

I already exposed it:

- we are MS-based professionals (large experience in VB, ASP, and some good
experience in .Net on our own), therefore the migration/code quality/bugs
will reach the best results;
- .Net is more faster than Java;
- .Net is more productive
- .The .Net have the best control components. Examples: in Java, poor
layout, some bugs, less recurses (like intrisec right-clicks in textboxes,
amoung other things), and etc., etc.


The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because MONO is really
young, for now;
- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and requires
softwares that run in Linux.


There are some imparcial researches and comparisions so I can convince that
.Net is the best way?

Thx in advance!

[]s
Cesar

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Here is a link to a good blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/dweller/archive/2004/09/21/232490.aspx

The blog has a link to an independent study of Websphere/Linux vs.
.NET/Windows Server 2003.

Not sure how independent it really is - the study was commissioned by
MS according to http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1645550,00.asp

The Middleware Company has a bad record with this kind of thing - their
reimplementation of PetStore for benchmarking purposes was very widely
criticised, for example.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

I need some help to convince the bosses to adopt the .Net in my work. I
really believe that .Net is the BEST option to use, therefore the opinions
must be with no passions.

I already exposed it:

- we are MS-based professionals (large experience in VB, ASP, and some good
experience in .Net on our own), therefore the migration/code quality/bugs
will reach the best results;

That's certainly important.

- .Net is more faster than Java;

At doing what, precisely? .NET is, I believe, somewhat faster for
desktop apps, although Java has been making good inroads in the last
couple of releases. You may also want to consider SWT, which is nice
and snappy - look at Eclipse for a good example of how Java can perform
well on the desktop. On the server side, I doubt there's much
difference between the two.

- .Net is more productive

If you're used to .NET, that's certainly true. Developers used to Java
(and certainly those experienced with the myriad technologies
available) would probably be more productive in Java. Trying to compare
the two in an objective way is *very* difficult, IMO.

- .The .Net have the best control components. Examples: in Java, poor
layout, some bugs, less recurses (like intrisec right-clicks in
textboxes, amoung other things), and etc., etc.

Actually, I vastly prefer the layout control you get in Java - and
there are plenty of bugs in Windows Forms too! Don't let your love of
..NET give you rose-tinted spectacles...

The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because MONO is really
young, for now;

That's certainly true.

- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and requires
softwares that run in Linux.

These seem pretty much the clincher to me. If they're important
customers, and there's no *overwhelming* reason not to do what they
want, you do what they want.

There are some imparcial researches and comparisions so I can
convince that .Net is the best way?

Why not ask for impartial research so you can find out what is the best
way, rather than assuming you definitely know the right answer to start
with?

 

[Tim Anderson]

Why not ask for impartial research so you can find out what is the best
way, rather than assuming you definitely know the right answer to start
with?

Jon,

While I agree with your points, impartial research is hard to find. There
are few truly detailed and well-informed comparisons. Even where reports are
not tainted by sponsorship, they may be biassed by the researchers differing
levels of knowledge of the platforms being compared, or simply by the
personal leanings of the editors of the research. I actually like the recent
Middleware study; it doesn't strike me as particularly one-sided, although
it doesn't "prove" anything being just a single project with specific spec,
tools and developers.

I'd add that developer skills are the single most important factor in the
success of a project. So here we have a contradiction - the customer wants
Java, but the developer has .NET skills. That suggests an open discussion is
needed. Should the developers retrain? Or is the project sufficiently
isolated within the organisation that a .NET solution will work fine? Or is
this the wrong developer team?

Tim
..NET pros and cons discussed:
http://www.itwriting.com/phorum/list.php?f=6

 

[Guest]

Here is a comprehensive re-evaluation of .NET versus J2EE that was recently
done Sept 19, 2004

http://www.theserverside.net/news/thread.tss?thread_id=28850

 

[Bruno Jouhier [MVP]]

You may be right in your technical / productivity assessment (I'd agree that
most of the points that you list are probably in .NET favor, but the
difference is usually marginal, not enough to really win a case), but your
boss is right in his business assessment. If his main customers (big bank,
government) want Java, he has to go in their direction, not against them.
This is just basic business reasoning.

So, if you want to do .NET, you have to choose a software shop that targets
the MS platform, not one that sells to customers who have adopted Java.

Bruno.

 

[Ravichandran J.V.]

There is the JLCA, if you want and then there is J# but I am not quite
sure whether you are talking about converting a Java project into .Net
or a group of .Net developers given the task of developing a project
that the client wants developed only in Java.

with regards,


J.V.Ravichandran
- http://www.geocities.com/
jvravichandran
- http://www.411asp.net/func/search?
qry=Ravichandran+J.V.&cob=aspnetpro
- http://www.southasianoutlook.com
- http://www.MSDNAA.Net
- http://www.csharphelp.com
- http://www.poetry.com/Publications/
display.asp?ID=P3966388&BN=999&PN=2
- Or, just search on "J.V.Ravichandran"
at http://www.Google.com

 

[Tim Anderson]

There is the JLCA, if you want and then there is J# but I am not quite
sure whether you are talking about converting a Java project into .Net
or a group of .Net developers given the task of developing a project
that the client wants developed only in Java.

The latter was the point under discussion; fortunately I'm not in that
position myself.

Tim
..NET pros and cons discussed:
http://www.itwriting.com/phorum/list.php?f=6

 

[Andrew Faust]

Hello, guys.

The bosses exposed it:

- Java is more multi-OS consolidated than .NET, because there
are more
sucess cases in Linux and Windows (Java is older) and because
MONO is really
young, for now;
- We have a customer (big bank) that wannot permit other
technology
different from Java. (to me, it is essencially
passion/religion);
- The government from here is adopting lots of Linux OS and
requires
softwares that run in Linux.

While I would certainly prefer to use C# of Java any day of the
week, I'd have to say that your bosses arguments are probably
good enough to override any argument you may make for .NET. If
your software truly does need to be cross platform then Java is a
better choice to .NET. I know about Mono, but Mono isn't to the
point where I would trust my business's future on it.

Furthermore, if your customer (the big bank) is a really
important customer (and I suspect it is), then your bosses can't
risk alienating them over an issue as minor as programming
language used. Before you jump on me saying that the language
used isn't minor, let me remind you that money coming in to the
company to pay the developers is far more important than what
language those developers use.

Mostly, I think your companies' cross platform requirement makes
any .NET language a bad choice for you. It doesn't necessarily
need to be Java, there are other options such as C++ and Borland
Kylix.

Andrew Faust

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Here is a comprehensive re-evaluation of .NET versus J2EE that was recently
done Sept 19, 2004

http://www.theserverside.net/news/thread.tss?thread_id=28850

But is it entirely unbiased? If not, how much use is it?

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Ronchese,

I have seen the statements of your Boss much more, however than it was not
Java but Cobol.

And they where right, Cobol is still used and as far as I know especially in
those environments where the other posters are pointing on. (And than even
much more than Java).

I hope I make my thoughts clear with this?

Cor