Multilingual Sites

  • Thread starter Thread starter Andrew Smith
  • Start date Start date
A

Andrew Smith

Hi,

I'd like to build my new website bilingual. Does anybody have a hint to to
realize this with FrontPage?

I 'm using for each language a separate htm-file with the same dwt . How
ever this breaks the navigation structure, because I can only link a set of
pages for one language.

So is looks like that I have to create to fully separate website for the
second language. Is that right? Does anybody have a hint?

TIA
Andrew
 
Hi Andrew:

Another approach to consider, is to construct your primary langue
website (English) entirely of text, i.e.: no graphic text elements, or
as few as possible.

Then go to one of the website translation sites;

http://www.freetranslation.com/web.htm
http://www.altavista.com/help/free/free_searchbox_transl
http://www.worldlingo.com/products_services/website_translation.html
http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_E...ss/Translation_Services/Web_Site_Translation/

And follow their procedures for translation into a multitude of
languages. I've employed this technique on more than one occasion with
decent success.

Let me know how you make-out.

Happy New Year

Tom G, Sr.


HiOn Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:19:47 +0100, "Andrew Smith"
Hi,

I'd like to build my new website bilingual. Does anybody have a hint to to
realize this with FrontPage?

I 'm using for each language a separate htm-file with the same dwt . How
ever this breaks the navigation structure, because I can only link a set of
pages for one language.

So is looks like that I have to create to fully separate website for the
second language. Is that right? Does anybody have a hint?

TIA
Andrew

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Name: T. & D. Gregor, Sr.
E-Mail: (e-mail address removed)
Web-Site: http://www.scenery.org
"The Scenery Hall of Fame"
Subscribe to our Newsletter:
(e-mail address removed)

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
 
The recommended way is to create a subweb for any additional languages

You can use a common dwt across subwebs
--




| Hi,
|
| I'd like to build my new website bilingual. Does anybody have a hint to to
| realize this with FrontPage?
|
| I 'm using for each language a separate htm-file with the same dwt . How
| ever this breaks the navigation structure, because I can only link a set of
| pages for one language.
|
| So is looks like that I have to create to fully separate website for the
| second language. Is that right? Does anybody have a hint?
|
| TIA
| Andrew
| --
| Andrew Smith
|
|
 
Hi,

thanks for your advice. I will it do it that way. Still wondering why
FrontPage even in the latest version is not able to support that in an
effective manner. Thanks for your advice with the dwt.

Regards,
Andrew
 
The requirements for multi-lingual sites vary quite a bit, and usually
involve some programming. At the least, not all products, or documents, or
whatever may be available in all countries or languages. If you're doing
database queries, you have to retrieve a different description field for each
language. And quite often, yo may need to convert currencies on the fly.

BTW, here's a scrap of ASP code that will redirect visitors to a different
site depending on the language setting in their browser. You put this at the
very top of the page, just after the <html> tag.

<%
dim regEx
dim matches
dim languages
dim lang
dim pos
Set regEx = New RegExp
regEx.Pattern = "^[a-zA-Z]+"
languages = split("" & request.servervariables("HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE"), ",")
for pos = 0 to ubound(languages)
lang = languages(pos)
Set matches = regEx.Execute(lang)
if matches.Count > 0 then
select case lang
case "en" ' English
exit for ' Current site is the correct site.
case "fr" ' French
response.redirect "http://french.example.com" ' jump to the French
site.
response.end ' Bypass the rest of the current page.
case "de" ' German
response.redirect "http://german.example.com" ' jump to the German
site.
response.end ' Bypass the rest of the current page.
end select
end if
next
%>


For a list of language codes, browse
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/language_codes.asp

The preceding script is only sensitive to the leading portion of each
language code. For example, it treats all of these:
de German (Standard)
de-ch German (Switzerland)
de-at German (Austria)
de-lu German (Luxembourg)
de-li German (Liechtenstein)
as de.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services Inside Out
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------
 
Hello Andrew,

If you're really serious about "globalization"+"localization" you should use
those search terms to learn more.

First, the software translators are a joke and that is well known to those
whom know better. For the time being, due to the lack of processing power
and the fact that while computational linguistics have become quite advanced
and continue to be refifned over time our notion of computational
linguistics continues to significantly fail to reliably translate any of the
constructs that are used to actually communicate ideas to people, i.e.
software translation does a real piss-poor job with simile, metaphor,
analogy, allegory and other 'figures of speech.' Human translation is well
worth every cent if you are involved in e-commerce. The return on investment
will pay dividends in the most important concern; good will and respect
shown to your customers.

Secondly, if you are going to consider any software language or platform for
development you should know that ASP.NET supports globalization and
localizatiion to a greater extent than any other initiative at the present
time. Using ASP.NET can enable web development which supports user interface
requirements for hundreds of supported languages, even those that require
constructs such as right-left, top-down, symbols, date and time structures
or any other language characteristics.

It would be a waste of time and money and culturally insulting to use ASP to
simply redirect to a page of foolish gibberish generated by software that
still required a person to read bass ackwards. Hello?
 
I don't think there was any mention of computer-translation in this thread.

If Andrew Smith here is struggling with DWTs, I would guess that ASP.NET
won't be practical for him in the short term. I suspect he would create two
sites by hand and then want to redirect visitors to the correct site. Just a
guess.

The purpose of this newsgroup is to help people at all levels of knowledge.
Talking over someone's heads is out of line. Sincere advice and considerate
opinions are fine.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services Inside Out
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------

clintonG said:
Hello Andrew,

If you're really serious about "globalization"+"localization" you should use
those search terms to learn more.

First, the software translators are a joke and that is well known to those
whom know better. For the time being, due to the lack of processing power
and the fact that while computational linguistics have become quite advanced
and continue to be refifned over time our notion of computational
linguistics continues to significantly fail to reliably translate any of the
constructs that are used to actually communicate ideas to people, i.e.
software translation does a real piss-poor job with simile, metaphor,
analogy, allegory and other 'figures of speech.' Human translation is well
worth every cent if you are involved in e-commerce. The return on investment
will pay dividends in the most important concern; good will and respect
shown to your customers.

Secondly, if you are going to consider any software language or platform for
development you should know that ASP.NET supports globalization and
localizatiion to a greater extent than any other initiative at the present
time. Using ASP.NET can enable web development which supports user interface
requirements for hundreds of supported languages, even those that require
constructs such as right-left, top-down, symbols, date and time structures
or any other language characteristics.

It would be a waste of time and money and culturally insulting to use ASP to
simply redirect to a page of foolish gibberish generated by software that
still required a person to read bass ackwards. Hello?


--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
 
The very first reply from T. & D. Gregor Sr. suggested using 'software
translation sites' so your comments to me in that regard are based on your
own failure to read and understand the replies to this topic.

As for your 'guess' regarding ASP.NET in what you refer to as the 'short
term' I am compelled by the facts and my current knowledge of the .NET
Framework to tell you that your guesswork is short-sighted. Furthermore,
your assumption to know what is best for anybody in the short term or any
term for that matter is presumptuous.

Anybody interested in determing the facts for themselves can do so once
somebody helps them learn the keywords that are being used to define and
describe a given topic. Once having learned more of the actual facts
involved and the basis of how the facts came about the decision to adopt or
not adopt a given tactical methodology is not yours to make.

As for your final remarks regarding the use of this newsgroup -- pompous as
they were -- if it was my intention to talk over anybody's head I would not
have provided the search terms or bothered discussing the facts and complex
issues involved in this topic.

If you choose to insult the intelligence of people that come here seeking
discussion by assuming a person does not have the intellectual capacity or
the interest in discussing what can be complex issues that is your decision
but again, it is not for you to decide either way unless it applies to you
directly. As for me in this regard, it is me and it will remain me that
decides who to offer the benefit of my insight, when, and how. Not you. As
for others, it is their determination to take advantage of what I have to
offer or choose to ignore it. Not you.

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/





Jim Buyens said:
I don't think there was any mention of computer-translation in this thread.

If Andrew Smith here is struggling with DWTs, I would guess that ASP.NET
won't be practical for him in the short term. I suspect he would create two
sites by hand and then want to redirect visitors to the correct site. Just a
guess.

The purpose of this newsgroup is to help people at all levels of knowledge.
Talking over someone's heads is out of line. Sincere advice and considerate
opinions are fine.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services Inside Out
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------
 
Responses interspersed. However, this is the last time I'm going to respond
here, because this newsgroup isn't the proper forum for this. Contact me
privately via http://www.interlacken.com/common/contact.aspx if you wish.

clintonG said:
The very first reply from T. & D. Gregor Sr. suggested using 'software
translation sites' so your comments to me in that regard are based on your
own failure to read and understand the replies to this topic.

Guilty. I guess I filtered that out so quickly that I never even noticed it.
As for your 'guess' regarding ASP.NET in what you refer to as the 'short
term' I am compelled by the facts and my current knowledge of the .NET
Framework to tell you that your guesswork is short-sighted. Furthermore,
your assumption to know what is best for anybody in the short term or any
term for that matter is presumptuous.

And yet you feel no compunction stating what *you* believe is best for
anybody.
Anybody interested in determing the facts for themselves can do so once
somebody helps them learn the keywords that are being used to define and
describe a given topic. Once having learned more of the actual facts
involved and the basis of how the facts came about the decision to adopt or
not adopt a given tactical methodology is not yours to make.

I aggree that the final choice of approach lies with each person, which
means not with me, and not with you.

At the same time, it makes perfect sense to consider the apparent skill
level of the questioner before providing an answer. An answer that's too far
above or below the questioner's skill level is generally useless, and may be
insulting.

This, of course, is tricky, because the questioner's skill level is far from
obvious. All we have to go by is a few lines of text. In this case, I
presumed that because the questioner was somewhat uncertain how to use
Dynamic Web Templates in FrontPage, they probably weren't an experienced
ASP.NETdeveloper. That's not a sure thing, but it's the assumption I made.

Most people posting these sorts of newsgroup questions are looking for quick
fixes, and not for extensive self-education. That's why I, for one, try to
give the simplest, most direct answers I can.
As for your final remarks regarding the use of this newsgroup -- pompous as
they were -- if it was my intention to talk over anybody's head I would not
have provided the search terms or bothered discussing the facts and complex
issues involved in this topic.

A matter of opinion, for sure.
If you choose to insult the intelligence of people that come here seeking
discussion by assuming a person does not have the intellectual capacity or
the interest in discussing what can be complex issues that is your decision
but again, it is not for you to decide either way unless it applies to you
directly. As for me in this regard, it is me and it will remain me that
decides who to offer the benefit of my insight, when, and how. Not you. As
for others, it is their determination to take advantage of what I have to
offer or choose to ignore it. Not you.

Well, you can obviously post whatever you want; that's one of the beauties
of usenet. And for what it's worth, if I had to develop a multi-lingual Web
site, I, like you, would almost certainly do it in ASP.NET. In fact, I have
done so in the past.

But not everyone has the time or the aptitude to learn ASP.NET programming;
some people's talents lay more in marketing, or product selection, or graphic
design, or running tours, or a million other areas. Even so, some of them
want to develop simple Web sites, and just like posting to usenet, they
should have the freedom to do so. The Web is for everyone, not just the
technically astute.

I mean, it's fine to evangelize ASP.NET but if you scream too loud, you
dissuade more people than you convert.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services Inside Out
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------
 
Hi,

thanks for the various advices. I'm using FrontPage with Shared Borders
including Navigation. I created a subweb for German and tried to apply the
dwt from the web above. How ever I got an error message saying something
like "Server Error, your trying to access a document outside you web"

In consequence the the attached dwt created a mess in my subweb. Has anybody
used the dwt in this scenario with better result?

Thanks in advance
Andrew
 
Hi,

regarding ASP.NET. Do you know a good jump start for this. Is it possible to
use automatic navigation, shared bordes and other nices features of
FrontPage as well in ASP.NET?

Thanks in advance for any insight.
Andrew
 
You need to import the DWT into the web you are trying to use it in. Subwebs / Subsites are
completely independent sites under a FP root web.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
ASP.NET is primarily a programming environment. You might think of it as ASP
on mega-steroids. You can enter ASP.NET code by hand in FrontPage or in
editor like WebMatrix, but most people use Visual Studio .NET (which is
pricey) or either Visual Basic .NET Standard or C# .NET Standard (which cost
about $100).

You can work on the same Web site using both FrontPage and Visual Studio (or
VB.NET Std or C# .NET Std) and so theoretically yes, you could design your
site using FrontPage shared borders and navigation view. However, most
ASP.NET programmers avoid that approach. Instead, then make maximum use of
CSS style sheets, and they use an approach called ASP.NET User Controls that
work something like Include Page components on steroids. The next release of
ASP.NET, currently in beta, has a featured called Master Pages that works
more like DWTs.

There are many ways to create multi-lingual sites, but the one I used
required that every scrap of text on the page be a ASP.NET server control.
When a visitor browses the site, program code behind each page determines the
visitor's language presence, and then retrieves text fragments from a
so-called "resource" file. There's one resource file for each language, so to
add a language to the site, a translator needs only to create a new resource
file.

I, of course, recommend my book, "Web Database Development Step by Step .NET
Edition." However, the following should also get you started:

Microsoft ASP.NET Programming with Microsoft Visual Basic .NET Version 2003
Step By Step.

Microsoft ASP.NET Programming with Microsoft Visual C# .NET Version 2003
Step By Step.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services Inside Out
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------
 
I recently created a multilingal site. The HTM pages contained memory
variables that were driven by a database. As the user logged in, he
would choose a language. and that database would feed through the
respective text. Easy once you master it - thats the difficulty.

See www.thesnaps.com

Regards, John Prescott

Paymaster Systems Ltd,
Moorlands House, Oldfield Road, Bromley, Kent. BR1 2LE
TEL: 020 8467 6107 FAX: 020 8467 6121
e-mail: (e-mail address removed) website <http://www.oursite.co.uk>

******************************************************
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Back
Top