MSDN Vista DVD (Disc 4455.01) - too large to make local copies?

[Steve F]

Let me give some quick background. (If you don't care about this skip to
paragraph 3.) I am the program administrator for the MSDN Academic Alliance
software system here at my college. We have our MSDNAA system set up via
E-Academy, so that students can log on there, sign up for a MS product,
obtain a product key online, and then visit me to get the installation media.

We have a custom DVD Copy distribution method at our site: instead of making
students download ISOs of the software they want (which can take upwards of
18 hours on our slow campus connection), we allow them to copies of the MSDN
discs distributed as part of the MSDNAA program. Functionally, this is
equivalent to letting the students check out the discs and return them, but
it lets them have access to their installation discs for the long term (which
a checkout program does not). This was working great, until recently.

Starting with the discs received summer 2008, entitled "Windows Vista with
Service Pack (x64 and X86)(English)" and numbered "Disc 4455.01", the DVD
discs report as 5.7 GB and thus are too large to copy disc-to-disc. Usually,
I just have our students burn a copy to take back and install, but now Nero
won't let them, saying that the disc doesn't fit on standard 4.7 GB DVD
media. This leads to several questions.

First, why is the Vista DVD distributed via MSDN larger than 4.7 GB? Is it a
dual-layer disc or some other new technology, and if so does that mean it
will cause problems in certain student's DVD drives? If it is a standard DVD,
then why does it report at 5.7 GB when the standard maxes out at 4.7 GB? Is
there a way to copy it, or are we stuck with a check-out only program?

I guess an alternative would be to download and burn copies from the MSDN
website, but the MSDNAA rep told me that these would be identical to what we
received in the mail. Does that mean they too will be 5.7 GB, ie, too large
to burn? (Upon looking in the MSDN downloads, I don't see a disc image that
corresponds to the one in front of me, but rather separate downloads for x64
and X86. Maybe that's the answer.)

In any case, this is really two questions. The first is, why is the Vista
DVD reporting at 5.7 GB and will this cause any problems? The second is, can
I somehow get a version of the Vista DVD that the students can actually use
to copy so we can continue our copy distribution program?

As an aside, E-Academy tech support sent me to MSDNAA support, which sent me
to MS software Support, which told me that MSDNAA didn't have a support
contract for media support and they could either charge me $250 or send me
here. So... I'm here.

 

[Mike Brannigan]

Let me give some quick background. (If you don't care about this skip to
paragraph 3.) I am the program administrator for the MSDN Academic
Alliance
software system here at my college. We have our MSDNAA system set up via
E-Academy, so that students can log on there, sign up for a MS product,
obtain a product key online, and then visit me to get the installation
media.

We have a custom DVD Copy distribution method at our site: instead of
making
students download ISOs of the software they want (which can take upwards
of
18 hours on our slow campus connection), we allow them to copies of the
MSDN
discs distributed as part of the MSDNAA program. Functionally, this is
equivalent to letting the students check out the discs and return them,
but
it lets them have access to their installation discs for the long term
(which
a checkout program does not). This was working great, until recently.

Starting with the discs received summer 2008, entitled "Windows Vista with
Service Pack (x64 and X86)(English)" and numbered "Disc 4455.01", the DVD
discs report as 5.7 GB and thus are too large to copy disc-to-disc.
Usually,
I just have our students burn a copy to take back and install, but now
Nero
won't let them, saying that the disc doesn't fit on standard 4.7 GB DVD
media. This leads to several questions.

This is because as with movie DVDs these are now dual layer (DL) 8.2GB media
disks,. These are fully supported by Nero and you CAN copy them as long as
you use Dual Layer disk and a dual layer writer.

First, why is the Vista DVD distributed via MSDN larger than 4.7 GB? Is it
a
dual-layer disc or some other new technology, and if so does that mean it
will cause problems in certain student's DVD drives?

Yes it is a Dual Layer disk (not exactly new technology).
The large capacity is required to fit the WIM image format now used for
distribution of the OS.

If it is a standard DVD,
then why does it report at 5.7 GB when the standard maxes out at 4.7 GB?
Is
there a way to copy it, or are we stuck with a check-out only program?

See above it is a dual layer disk

I guess an alternative would be to download and burn copies from the MSDN
website, but the MSDNAA rep told me that these would be identical to what
we
received in the mail. Does that mean they too will be 5.7 GB, ie, too
large
to burn?

Not too large to burn - you just need DL disks and a DL burner.

(Upon looking in the MSDN downloads, I don't see a disc image that
corresponds to the one in front of me, but rather separate downloads for
x64
and X86. Maybe that's the answer.)

Yes that would work as the single x86 and x64 MSDN ISO images are single
layer compatible as they are under 4GB

In any case, this is really two questions. The first is, why is the Vista
DVD reporting at 5.7 GB and will this cause any problems?

no problem see above

The second is, can
I somehow get a version of the Vista DVD that the students can actually
use
to copy so we can continue our copy distribution program?

none combined x86 and x86 media is available under certain programs - it may
not be available to you as the media supplied to you is perfectly usable for
the installation of the software etc.

As an aside, E-Academy tech support sent me to MSDNAA support, which sent
me
to MS software Support, which told me that MSDNAA didn't have a support
contract for media support and they could either charge me $250 or send me
here. So... I'm here.

Are you sure you are allowed to make "copes" of media for distribution, You
have the ability to buy spare media adn this is what you are supposed to
supply to students if you are allowed to distribute copies of the you MSDNAA
software to them.
If I am not mistaken the front of the disk still has the text - do not make
copies of this disk .,.. " does it not ?

 

[Steve F]

This is because as with movie DVDs these are now dual layer (DL) 8.2GB media
disks,. These are fully supported by Nero and you CAN copy them as long as
you use Dual Layer disk and a dual layer writer.


Yes it is a Dual Layer disk (not exactly new technology).
The large capacity is required to fit the WIM image format now used for
distribution of the OS.


See above it is a dual layer disk


Not too large to burn - you just need DL disks and a DL burner.


Yes that would work as the single x86 and x64 MSDN ISO images are single
layer compatible as they are under 4GB


no problem see above


none combined x86 and x86 media is available under certain programs - it may
not be available to you as the media supplied to you is perfectly usable for
the installation of the software etc.



Are you sure you are allowed to make "copes" of media for distribution, You
have the ability to buy spare media adn this is what you are supposed to
supply to students if you are allowed to distribute copies of the you MSDNAA
software to them.
If I am not mistaken the front of the disk still has the text - do not make
copies of this disk .,.. " does it not ?

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your response. That's what I was looking for. Dual layer isn't
new, certainly, but it isn't that common in our machines' burners here at
work yet. The disc itself doesn't specify, and neither did Nero, hence why I
wondered. I can add a note to our distribution method about needing a DL disc
and copier.

As for copy permissions, yes, there is a "do not make illegal copies of this
disc" notice, as with most MS software. However, when I spoke to MSDNAA when
setting up the program they told me that the license agreement allows for a
single copy to each student or for the student to burn a single copy from an
ISO. (Functionally, those are equivalent anyway.) Hence, the copies are legal
within the guidelines of the Academic Alliance EULA. Since the software
product key is not on the disc, students have to request a key separately
online at the E-Academy website, and can only make a copy after they have
been issued a product key.

The alternative for students is to either burn from ISO, borrow the disc
instead of copying it, or pay $10 to have official media mailed to them. Most
just choose to bring their own media and make a disc-to-disc copy.