MS issued advisory, current exploit potential

D

David H. Lipman

From: "Gerry Hickman" <[email protected]>

| Hi Roger,
|
| I'd be interested to know if the "70 computers compromised" were running
| with Admin rights? I work in this sector too and we certainly don't
| allow it.
|

And what sector would that be ? :)
 
D

Dan W.

David said:
From: "Gerry Hickman" <[email protected]>

| Hi Roger,
|
| I'd be interested to know if the "70 computers compromised" were running
| with Admin rights? I work in this sector too and we certainly don't
| allow it.
|

And what sector would that be ? :)

Interesting no reply from poster. hmm -- I wonder why not! You guys
know that I already work in the security arena and I deal with getting
infected computers back to working state again where it ceases to amuse
me and I move on to the next compromised machine.
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

The trick there is to use a solid code base that then encapsulates and
sand-boxes the other non-native OSs. This is particulary beneficial
for DOS and Win9x, as these need their view of the system speed and
capacities to be less than it really is - so the performance impact of
the emulation overhead is not a problem.

In 2006, you should really see DOS, Win9x, and even Win9x as
non-native with respect to today's hardware. This will become even
more of a factor as 64-bit, EFI, no-execute etc. take hold; it's
already demanded by USB, >137G, large RAM, fast CPU clock speeds,
altered relative timings for different CPU instructions, and less
attention paid to legacy BIOS standards.
Sorry, I think it's a terrible idea. Microsoft's security problems are in
part due to the time, trouble and money it costs them to support so many
different software variations. The customers are much better off if
Microsoft picks one code base and runs with it.

This is potentially true. Alas, real-world mileage has been poor
because MS doesn't grasp how different are the needs outside of NT's
non-traditional market, or they undervalue the importance of these.

The problems consumers have with XP are not because it's a pure Win432
code base that doesn't properly support Win9x, DOS and Win3.yuk apps.

Instead, it's because the XP use is unchanged from the design
requirements of professionally-administered network computing.
Windows 98 is only more secure if you focus on just one very narrow
definition of security... and a new release of Win98 with RPC/DCOM
and other things added, who knows how secure that might be.

I'm with Karl on this one. Win9x is safer only because there is less
of it - and especially because it doesn't open itself up to be used as
a network chew-toy, as NT is designed to do.

Once you port those mistakes into Win9x, you'd have all the un-safety
of the original XP plus all the insecurity of Win9x. What a mess!

Instead, how about rolling back NT to the bare-bones kernel, and then
applying the Win9x stand-alone design to delevoping it back up to a
full OS? IOW, none of that RPC, LSASS etc. and no facilities
whatsoever for any sort of remote admin. If you aren't physically at
the keyboard, you don't even have the right to speak to the OS unless
invited to do so by some outward-going traffic to your IP address, and
even thn, you don't have any admin access at all.

That gives you the safety of Win9x on the stability of NT, and uses a
common core code base for ease of support. The code base is better
not only because it's NT-based, but also because it's up to managing
modern hardware, in the same way that Win9x definitely is NOT.
I don't believe Win98 will make shared lab computers in public schools
more secure. A significant problem for such environments is insider
attacks and privilege escalation attacks. While XP is far from perfect
in this area, at least it tries; Win98 has zero defenses here.

Agreed. Kiosk PCs (i.e. those for use by a careless public) are hard
to manage, and while the simplicity of Win9x helps, it's not enough.
The main advantage of Win98 was the lower cost

And that evaporated when XP Home was released...


---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Proverbs Unscrolled #37
"Build it and they will come and break it"
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

I am referring to a release that combined the elements of the three
source codes into one. If this could be accomplished and leveraged in
order to provide legacy support for Windows 3.1 programs and DOS
programs then this would be great. Chris Quirke, talks about the
problems with the NT technology code base.

If what you're after is an OS that runs apps written for multiple
platforms, then that's another story...
- DOS; via emulator
- Win3.x; via emulator
- Win9x; via emulator or "compatibility mode"
- open source ...?

"Open source" is a licensing model, not a platform - there's plenty of
open source written for Windows, some of it written my MS themselves,
so there's no special requirements there.

Are you referring to open source OSs, such as Linux? If so, then
that's trickier. The usual thought is that Linux needs less hardware
than Windows, and therefore one could emulate it as one would older
Win9x, Win3.yuk and DOS apps. The reality is that Linux apps may
require full performance, and that may mean peering the OS.

MS has entered these waters before, e.g. the POSIX component of NT.
I'm not sure if they should do so again, for various reasons.

Firstly, what are the ethics of an "OS monopolist" hosting a competing
platform's applications?

Is it in Linux's interests for all those applications not to need
Linux as a prerequisite for use?

Is it in MS's interests, or the interests of developers who write for
Windows, to enable all these competing applications?

Then there's the question of security and safety. A combination of
parallel *NIX and MS functionalities would double the number of things
to check and patch, and that's before you consider the surface between
them, e.g. attacks made by crossing between the two.

IMO, Windows is "rich" enough with integration points and exploitable
surfaces as it is; I don't want to have to run after the whole of
Linux as well. If I wanted exposure to all of Linux's possible
exploits and intrusions, I'd run Linux. I'm not running Linux, so
that implies I need these extra hassles like a hole in the head.

NT and *NIX grew up separately, and have completely different security
models - so I see cross-escalation opportunities as a huge risk.


------------ ----- --- -- - - - -
Drugs are usually safe. Inject? (Y/n)
 
G

Guest

Secure website lock icon not displaying when visiting a known secure site
after installing IE7. It worked fine in IE6. Any suggestions? Thanks, Dave
 
M

Malke

Dave said:
Secure website lock icon not displaying when visiting a known secure
site after installing IE7. It worked fine in IE6. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Dave

You should post your question in the IE7 newsgroup *after* you spend
some time reading through the posts there. The IE7 newsgroup is:

microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general

There are a huge number of posts so it would be smart to start by going
to Google Groups Advanced Search. Use a search term that describes your
problem, constrain the search to the IE7 newsgroup and the date to very
recently.

And no, I'm sorry but I don't have your answer or I would tell you
now. ;-) In the meantime, here are some links that may help you
troubleshoot:

http://www.ie-vista.com/ - MVP Sandi Hardmeier
http://support.microsoft.com/ph/8722 - IE7 Solutions Center
http://aumha.net/viewforum.php?f=55 - forum

Malke
 

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