More Vista things that will drive you crazy!

A

Adam Albright

What's that old saying, hope springs enternal?

I guess the boys of Redmond never heard of that one. You see I've been
a long time Windows user. I go way back to the early versions and as
foolish as it is considering Windows has now been around in one form
or another for about 20 years, you would think Microsoft finally got
its act together. Keep dreaming.

I do a lot of video work. I'm constantly opening, changing and moving
files around, typically using Windows build-in Explorer. This piece of
junk has been broke from the beginning and has loads of bugs. It still
does. It seems Vista rather then fixing the old ones, added new ones.

This will drive you crazy!

Consider this absurd "file handling" stupidity, courtesy of Vista,
Business version.

1. I open a video file in Sony's Vegas. No problem.

2. I do some editing. No problem. I open a second application, do
some more tweaking of this file, close the file in this
application.

3. I decide to rename the file and save it from Vegas. BIG problem!
Vista says I don't have permission. Now stop laughing! Vista
already let me open, edit this file. That involves read, write and
execute permissions don't it?

Of course it does! So if I had permission or not, Vista let me.

Now I want to simply change the name of the file and Vista says I
can't. So now I got to stop working and try to do the Vista dance;
right click on the file, check permissions under the security tab,
fiddle around and sooner or later get permission to change the name
of the file.

4. You would think I'm ok now. Well no, not even close. I now wish to
rename the folder this file was in. That's on another drive.
What's funny is Vista let me operate on this file on this other
hard drive and never gave a peep until I wanted to change the
name. Now trying to change the folder name again I get another
warning from Vista saying I don't have permission to change the
name.

I scroll up to look at the security setting for the entire drive
which is labeled E. Under the security tab there is one User named
Eveybody. I didn't put it there, Vista did. It has everything
checked, so I should as a user with full administrative rights be
able to do anything to any file on this drive or so you would
think. I won't let me rename the folder.

5. I look at the folder in question it too has only the everybody
user and grayed out permissions. Again I try to change the name. I
get a you need to confirm this operation warning. I click on the
continue button. The entire screen now goes gray. I get the same
stupid you need permission error and it asks want to try again? I
click yes, and now we're in a endless loop with no clue what's
wrong.

This brings us full circle and illustrates how clueless Windows still
is as regards to what file may be "open" or not.

What's causing this mess is the old bug a boo that gnerally at any
time only one application can have a file open. This on the surface of
course makes sense. The last thing you want generally is to have two
application messing with the same file at the same time.

I had used a second application to work on the file I also worked on
in Vegas. Now here's where things get messy. I did what I needed, then
CLOSED the file in the second application, but DID NOT close the
application itself which remainded open.

This always has been a problem to brain dead Windows. It thinks
appliation B is still using the file and that is the reason I can't
change the folder name. So somewhere there is a memory page file in
that Windows was too dumb to flush which caused this. This problem has
been around for at least 10 years and Microsoft still hasn't fixed it.
The solution was to close the other application now I can rename the
folder.

Of course this is hardly a workable solution. Video editing is
complex. You constantly shift back and forth between various
application to do things to the same file. This is obviously true for
other tasks as well. Now it seems everytime I want to use the second
application I have to first shut it down before doing anything at the
system level like change folder name. That is not the sign of a smart
operating system.
 
S

Seven

Adam Albright said:
Of course this is hardly a workable solution. Video editing is
complex. You constantly shift back and forth between various
application to do things to the same file. This is obviously true for
other tasks as well. Now it seems everytime I want to use the second
application I have to first shut it down before doing anything at the
system level like change folder name. That is not the sign of a smart
operating system.

Get a Mac running OSX, permissions are handled more properly, and stay
out of your way. Plus video work on Macs is much more polished, easier
to deal with large files / multiple volumes. I appears you are kicking
yourself in the head by continuing to use Vista.
 
A

Adam Albright

Get a Mac running OSX, permissions are handled more properly, and stay
out of your way. Plus video work on Macs is much more polished, easier
to deal with large files / multiple volumes. I appears you are kicking
yourself in the head by continuing to use Vista.

You appear to be another Mac freak.
 
B

BigJim

good beta tester
Adam Albright said:
What's that old saying, hope springs enternal?

I guess the boys of Redmond never heard of that one. You see I've been
a long time Windows user. I go way back to the early versions and as
foolish as it is considering Windows has now been around in one form
or another for about 20 years, you would think Microsoft finally got
its act together. Keep dreaming.

I do a lot of video work. I'm constantly opening, changing and moving
files around, typically using Windows build-in Explorer. This piece of
junk has been broke from the beginning and has loads of bugs. It still
does. It seems Vista rather then fixing the old ones, added new ones.

This will drive you crazy!

Consider this absurd "file handling" stupidity, courtesy of Vista,
Business version.

1. I open a video file in Sony's Vegas. No problem.

2. I do some editing. No problem. I open a second application, do
some more tweaking of this file, close the file in this
application.

3. I decide to rename the file and save it from Vegas. BIG problem!
Vista says I don't have permission. Now stop laughing! Vista
already let me open, edit this file. That involves read, write and
execute permissions don't it?

Of course it does! So if I had permission or not, Vista let me.

Now I want to simply change the name of the file and Vista says I
can't. So now I got to stop working and try to do the Vista dance;
right click on the file, check permissions under the security tab,
fiddle around and sooner or later get permission to change the name
of the file.

4. You would think I'm ok now. Well no, not even close. I now wish to
rename the folder this file was in. That's on another drive.
What's funny is Vista let me operate on this file on this other
hard drive and never gave a peep until I wanted to change the
name. Now trying to change the folder name again I get another
warning from Vista saying I don't have permission to change the
name.

I scroll up to look at the security setting for the entire drive
which is labeled E. Under the security tab there is one User named
Eveybody. I didn't put it there, Vista did. It has everything
checked, so I should as a user with full administrative rights be
able to do anything to any file on this drive or so you would
think. I won't let me rename the folder.

5. I look at the folder in question it too has only the everybody
user and grayed out permissions. Again I try to change the name. I
get a you need to confirm this operation warning. I click on the
continue button. The entire screen now goes gray. I get the same
stupid you need permission error and it asks want to try again? I
click yes, and now we're in a endless loop with no clue what's
wrong.

This brings us full circle and illustrates how clueless Windows still
is as regards to what file may be "open" or not.

What's causing this mess is the old bug a boo that gnerally at any
time only one application can have a file open. This on the surface of
course makes sense. The last thing you want generally is to have two
application messing with the same file at the same time.

I had used a second application to work on the file I also worked on
in Vegas. Now here's where things get messy. I did what I needed, then
CLOSED the file in the second application, but DID NOT close the
application itself which remainded open.

This always has been a problem to brain dead Windows. It thinks
appliation B is still using the file and that is the reason I can't
change the folder name. So somewhere there is a memory page file in
that Windows was too dumb to flush which caused this. This problem has
been around for at least 10 years and Microsoft still hasn't fixed it.
The solution was to close the other application now I can rename the
folder.

Of course this is hardly a workable solution. Video editing is
complex. You constantly shift back and forth between various
application to do things to the same file. This is obviously true for
other tasks as well. Now it seems everytime I want to use the second
application I have to first shut it down before doing anything at the
system level like change folder name. That is not the sign of a smart
operating system.
 
S

Seven

Get a Mac running OSX, permissions are handled more properly, and stay
out of your way. Plus video work on Macs is much more polished, easier
to deal with large files / multiple volumes. It appears you are kicking
yourself in the head by continuing to use Vista.

You appear to be another Mac freak.[/QUOTE]

you're the one still trying to do things the old fashioned way. not us.
 
A

AJR

Lots of "comments" about Windows versus Mac. First - we usually prefer what
ever it is with what we started. Second - it's ridiculous to state that one
OS is better than another in all aspects of operation - Linux, Unix, OS2,
Windows and Mac all have one or two "superior" points over the others.

Want performance - get a Corvette. Want comfort - Cadillac. Want prestige -
Mercedes.
Which brand available provides the best combination?

My experience with the Mac goes back a-ways when I played with my Grandsons
Mac (student Graphic Arts). Apply Computer Inc (now known as Apple Inc.)
saved itself from extinction by offering free/inexpensive units to any
school system interested.
Initially Apple computers were not compatible regarding application (Windows
has always been so -but being weaned away via XP and now Vista).
PCs were and still are, available at any store or outlet willing to sell. -
Apple shut down sales from many such outlets -in fact check the
advertisements for CompUSA and there will be a little note that states
"Authorized Apple Reseller".

IBM at the introduction of the PC (personal Computer) permitted "clones"
(compatible PCs) - Apple with after and shut down clone maskers such as
Franklin

Apple prices did not include the keyboard or monitor - they were "extra"
cost items. My bad experience with the Grandson's Mac - moving any item to
the trash can deleted the item from the computer.

Finally (at last), things have probably changed - such as the monitor is
included oar trash can behavior changed. You take a bite out of your
Apple - and I'll play with my Vista PC.
 
S

Seven

AJR said:
Lots of "comments" about Windows versus Mac. First - we usually prefer what
ever it is with what we started. Second - it's ridiculous to state that one
OS is better than another in all aspects of operation - Linux, Unix, OS2,
Windows and Mac all have one or two "superior" points over the others.

Want performance - get a Corvette. Want comfort - Cadillac. Want prestige -
Mercedes.
Which brand available provides the best combination?

Lexus is the automobile combination of all three, just like Macs is the
computer combination of fast speed, comfort and prestige.
My experience with the Mac goes back a-ways when I played with my Grandsons
Mac (student Graphic Arts). Apply Computer Inc (now known as Apple Inc.)
saved itself from extinction by offering free/inexpensive units to any
school system interested.

no, Apple never did that, you mean in California the had a program
called "kids can't wait" that offered "1" computer to each school in
california, but it never went national.

and no, Apple was never close to extinction, yes, there was a time where
Apple was in danger of becoming a much smaller company, but it's even
during the darkest time, Apple had $1 billion in cash and no long term
debt.
Initially Apple computers were not compatible regarding application (Windows
has always been so -but being weaned away via XP and now Vista).
PCs were and still are, available at any store or outlet willing to sell. -
Apple shut down sales from many such outlets -in fact check the
advertisements for CompUSA and there will be a little note that states
"Authorized Apple Reseller".

Kinda like Lexus is only sold by Authorized Resellers, hum... uncanny
how that works.
IBM at the introduction of the PC (personal Computer) permitted "clones"
(compatible PCs) - Apple with after and shut down clone maskers such as
Franklin

no, IBM did not "permit" clones... Compaq reversed engineered IBM's
bios, the rest is history, but never at any point did IBM want them to
be around. They even went as far as to try and create a different
standard with "PS/2"... so your knowledge of history is a bit lacking.
Apple prices did not include the keyboard or monitor - they were "extra"
cost items.

As did most vendors at the time. IBM did it, Tandy did it, Commadore did
it, etc. It was just how you purchased machines at that time.
My bad experience with the Grandson's Mac - moving any item to
the trash can deleted the item from the computer.

no. that's totally incorrect. the Mac trash can never deleted an item,
unless you took a 2nd step and said "empty trash". The trash works
exactly the same today, as it did 23 years ago. And never once did it
"auto empty" your file. (at least not through Apple's software)
Finally (at last), things have probably changed - such as the monitor is
included oar trash can behavior changed. You take a bite out of your
Apple - and I'll play with my Vista PC.

Yes, today PC's are typically sold with a Monitor, but Apple's high end
still lets you decide size, 20, 23, 30 inch (or whatever size you want
via 3rd parties) and again, the Trash works the same as it always has.
Just like it does in Windows (which MS copied directly from Apple)

So I'd drive a Lexus, you'll drive the old klunker you bought from Bob's
Auto Sales. Someday you'll move up to a Mac.

http://www.apple.com/hardware/
 
A

Adam Albright

Yes, today PC's are typically sold with a Monitor, but Apple's high end
still lets you decide size, 20, 23, 30 inch (or whatever size you want
via 3rd parties) and again, the Trash works the same as it always has.
Just like it does in Windows (which MS copied directly from Apple)

So I'd drive a Lexus, you'll drive the old klunker you bought from Bob's
Auto Sales. Someday you'll move up to a Mac.

You moronic Mac nuts crack me up. What you know about computers could
fit on one web page at 640x480 resolution, no scrolling, double
spaced, a 40 point font.
 
S

Seven

Adam Albright said:
You moronic Mac nuts crack me up. What you know about computers could
fit on one web page at 640x480 resolution, no scrolling, double
spaced, a 40 point font.

except that Mac users as a whole are much more computer savvy than
Windows users. They are more techy, use more complex software, more
educated and make more income per capita. It's kinda the "smart guys"
computer, whereas Windows is "generally" used by the blue collar set.

Oh well, each to his own.
 
A

Adam Albright

except that Mac users as a whole are much more computer savvy than
Windows users. They are more techy, use more complex software, more
educated and make more income per capita. It's kinda the "smart guys"
computer, whereas Windows is "generally" used by the blue collar set.

Oh well, each to his own.

Sure, keep lying to yourself if it helps with your inferiority
complex. Its a Windows world dummy.

The typical Mac user is a kid or some 30-40 something dope then never
grew up, probably still lives at home, has a cat for a pet, probaby
still looks like and talks like a hippy, often addressing people he
meets as dude. If he works at all its probably in some dead end job in
a tiny cubical. The typical Mac user never will have a corner office,
be the boss or make decisions about anything. His idea of living it up
is getting a large order of fries with his Quarter pounder. You spend
most of your computer time playing games when not on the web
downloading porn. You couldn't make a spreadsheet or use any serious
business application if your life depended on it.

By the way, complex software and Mac are a oxymoron. You confuse smart
guy with "wise guy" as in some smart ass that blows smoke out his butt
which is all I've seen you do in this newsgroup.
 
R

Richard Urban

Right. That's why they have a "chooser"

Hell, Apple was talking to a six year old child when they named that.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
W

Wegie

Richard Urban said:
Right. That's why they have a "chooser"

Hell, Apple was talking to a six year old child when they named that.

the "chooser" made lots of sense and worked well for quite awhile, self
discovery of devices on a network, something windows users still don't
have working right. but the word "chooser" hasn't been in use for over 9
years.

Gosh you are behind the times!

Get a mac and catch up with the rest of us.
 
S

Seven

Adam Albright said:
Sure, keep lying to yourself if it helps with your inferiority
complex. Its a Windows world dummy.

gosh Adam, you sure are clueless, no wonder you are still attempting to
use Windows. face the facts Adam, the smart people of the world have
left windows for good. Here's the chief architect of Intel... the design
guy that created the world's first DRAM, EPROM and microprocessor... he
now uses a Mac.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/383414278/
The typical Mac user is a kid or some 30-40 something dope then never
grew up, probably still lives at home, has a cat for a pet, probaby
still looks like and talks like a hippy, often addressing people he
meets as dude. If he works at all its probably in some dead end job in
a tiny cubical.

Tell that to Jim Allchin, number 3 at Microsoft. He want's a Mac as
well... EVERYONE wants one... but some aren't yet smart enough to make
the jump.

Allchin "said he would buy a Mac if he wasn't working for Microsoft."

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/4163
The typical Mac user never will have a corner office,
be the boss or make decisions about anything. His idea of living it up
is getting a large order of fries with his Quarter pounder. You spend
most of your computer time playing games when not on the web
downloading porn. You couldn't make a spreadsheet or use any serious
business application if your life depended on it.

By the way, complex software and Mac are a oxymoron. You confuse smart
guy with "wise guy" as in some smart ass that blows smoke out his butt
which is all I've seen you do in this newsgroup.

He he, Windows can't handled complex software, that's the domain for
Unix based machines, OSX based machines, not little Windows boxes that
have a crummy OS. Since you are into Video, this is something Windows
can't do that's for sure.

http://www.apple.com/shake/

Have fun on your little play toy. The big boys doing Video all use Macs.
 
R

Richard Urban

I used a Mac about 8 years ago. I thought that they were very condescending
to name something so simplistic as a "chooser"

I have never had the urge to even try a Mac since.

Hell, s**t can would have been better.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
A

Adam Albright

Tell that to Jim Allchin, number 3 at Microsoft. He want's a Mac as
well... EVERYONE wants one... but some aren't yet smart enough to make
the jump.

If EVERYONE wanted a Mac, then Apple would have more than a 6% market
share. It seems 94% of personal computer users disagree with your
claim.
Have fun on your little play toy. The big boys doing Video all use Macs.

Hey kid, you don't know any "big boys" in video. I do. <giggle> Ever
hear of Hollywood?
 
A

Adam Albright

the "chooser" made lots of sense and worked well for quite awhile, self
discovery of devices on a network, something windows users still don't
have working right. but the word "chooser" hasn't been in use for over 9
years.

Gosh you are behind the times!

Get a mac and catch up with the rest of us.

Oh I see... 94 out of every 100 PC users are wrong for picking Windows
and you and a few other nuts are right for buying into Mac hype. Got
it. Thanks for sharing. Now remember to put all your crayons back in
the box when you're done playing.
 
S

Seven

Adam Albright said:
If EVERYONE wanted a Mac, then Apple would have more than a 6% market
share. It seems 94% of personal computer users disagree with your
claim.

No. this is how it happened.... People still use Windows since it was
compatible with "DOS", way back in 1981. People bought "into" that
because they thought it was connected to IBM. It wasn't of course, it
was Microsoft that owned DOS, then later the Windows OS, thus the public
got fooled into a poorly made operating system. Jump ahead 3 years and
the Mac changed the world for everyone, today, everyone uses the MacOS
in one form or another. MS has tried and tried ever since to copy the
Mac OS but it's still in shambles, it's only the uneducated that still
attempt to use it.
Hey kid, you don't know any "big boys" in video. I do. <giggle> Ever
hear of Hollywood?

Hollywood uses far more Macs in the production of movies than PCs. PCs
just don't have the foundation to handle Video... You'll understand what
I'm talking about when you decide to advance in your career. Until then,
we all are laughing at you.
 
W

Wegie

Adam Albright said:
Oh I see... 94 out of every 100 PC users are wrong for picking Windows
and you and a few other nuts are right for buying into Mac hype. Got
it. Thanks for sharing. Now remember to put all your crayons back in
the box when you're done playing.

Incorrect, MOST PCs are not used as Personal Computers, so that number
is really around 60% use Windows, the rest are just dumb terminals.
Please learn a little about how the industry works next time.

Macs are the gold standard in the Personal Computer and Server Markets,
if you don't get a Mac you running a low end machine, and that's always
been the case if you want to be productive in society.

You are on the verge of getting a Mac, I can sense it. A few more years
of maturity and you'll run what the Big Boys use.
 

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