MONITOR SCREEN SAGS: Could this be a DRIVER issue? (Dell CRT 21" D1626HT)

[SCREEN SAG]

I'm on Windows 2000 Professional, fully service packed and up-to-date.
I'm using an ATI Radeon graphics card, also driver-updated as of 2005.

When my 21" Samsung monitor died a few days ago a neighbor graciously
gave me a (1999) 21" Dell monitor which they were not using.

This is a Dell-branded TRINITRON monitor:
Dell UltraScan™ 1600HS Series, Model D1626HT (21")
http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/monitors/55347

HERE IS THE PROBLEM:
For lack of a better way of describing it, the top of the screen has a
distinctive SAG -- think "sway-backed horse" and you'll get the idea --
but it is __only__ on the top of the screen! I've never seen
anything quite like it.

Lest anyone doubt that I have exhausted every other avenue before
posting here, I have spent now THREE DAYS trying to tweak the controls
of this monitor to "pull the top left and right corners down" slightly
to eliminage the conspicuous sag, but despite my best efforts I CANNOT
get rid of it. Trapezoid, Pincushion, Rotate . . . you name it, I have
tried every single control button on this Sony Control panel and all it
does is warp the left and right sides.

More miraculous is the fact that the BOTTOM of the screen is as
straight as an arrow (?)!!

When I examined the driver in use for this monitor the following
properties are being used:
____________________Microsoft
____________________1999-10-01
So I went over to Dell's site and searched for a driver for this
monitor. Either I didn't do this correctly (or there just isn't one)
but I couldn't find it.

And there's one other problem:
This monitor is supposed to have a maximum refresh rate of 160mhz.
The highest I can get it to refresh at is 120mhz.

This sounds like a DRIVER issue, does it not?

I'll close by saying that I'm grateful to have received a free monitor
(which my neighbor swears worked just fine when he drydocked it) . . .
but the irony is that it is making me SEASICK to look at it for any
extended period of time lol. The image is beautiful btw.

Should I perhaps try using a Sony driver?? Which one should I look
for? Dell doesn't have a PDF User Manual available for this unit (and
my neighbor tossed his). That link I gave above is the sum total of
what I can find on this monitor tsk. Any thoughts or suggestions would
be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help.

Saggin' & Seasick

 

[Barry Watzman]

No it does not sound even remotely like a driver issue or any other
issue in the computer. It sounds like a monitor deflection problem.

Also, the monitor bandwidth (160MHz) has nothing to do with the refresh
rate and scan frequencies (where I think you are referring to 120Hz ...
not MHz (millions of Hz)).

From your descriptions, the monitor has a problem (the sagging top
center .... normally this would be fixed with the "pincushion" controls,
but normally it would be seen in the other edges also). It has nothing
to do with the computer or anything in the computer (drivers, etc.).

 

[Ron Krebs]

I'm on Windows 2000 Professional, fully service packed and up-to-date.
I'm using an ATI Radeon graphics card, also driver-updated as of 2005.

When my 21" Samsung monitor died a few days ago a neighbor graciously
gave me a (1999) 21" Dell monitor which they were not using.

This is a Dell-branded TRINITRON monitor:
Dell UltraScanT 1600HS Series, Model D1626HT (21")
http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/monitors/55347

HERE IS THE PROBLEM:
For lack of a better way of describing it, the top of the screen has a
distinctive SAG -- think "sway-backed horse" and you'll get the idea --
but it is __only__ on the top of the screen! I've never seen
anything quite like it.

Have you tried Degaussing the monitor if it has a Degauss switch?

Ron

 

[Barry Watzman]

One more comment:

Run, do not walk, to take advantage of this deal:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=70016071&adid=17662

This is a fantastic 19" LCD monitor, worth the entire pre-rebate price
($229), but with the $100 rebate (which I think you probably will
actually get if you submit it properly), it's an outright steal.

 

[Ron Krebs]

The Sceptre X20 WC Gamer 21 inch widescreen LCD with DVI; 5ms refresh; .25
pixel pitch; 800:1 contrast ratio; and a wide 176 deg angle of viewing for
$245 after rebate is better though.

Ron

 

[V Green]

Look for source of magnetism near monitor.

Personal fan, other appliances, etc.

Move monitor to different spot (as far away from
original spot as cable will allow) and try again.


I'm on Windows 2000 Professional, fully service packed and up-to-date.
I'm using an ATI Radeon graphics card, also driver-updated as of 2005.

When my 21" Samsung monitor died a few days ago a neighbor graciously
gave me a (1999) 21" Dell monitor which they were not using.

This is a Dell-branded TRINITRON monitor:
Dell UltraScanT 1600HS Series, Model D1626HT (21")
http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/monitors/55347

HERE IS THE PROBLEM:
For lack of a better way of describing it, the top of the screen has a
distinctive SAG -- think "sway-backed horse" and you'll get the idea --
but it is __only__ on the top of the screen! I've never seen
anything quite like it.

Lest anyone doubt that I have exhausted every other avenue before
posting here, I have spent now THREE DAYS trying to tweak the controls
of this monitor to "pull the top left and right corners down" slightly
to eliminage the conspicuous sag, but despite my best efforts I CANNOT
get rid of it. Trapezoid, Pincushion, Rotate . . . you name it, I have
tried every single control button on this Sony Control panel and all it
does is warp the left and right sides.

More miraculous is the fact that the BOTTOM of the screen is as
straight as an arrow (?)!!

When I examined the driver in use for this monitor the following
properties are being used:
____________________Microsoft
____________________1999-10-01
So I went over to Dell's site and searched for a driver for this
monitor. Either I didn't do this correctly (or there just isn't one)
but I couldn't find it.

And there's one other problem:
This monitor is supposed to have a maximum refresh rate of 160mhz.
The highest I can get it to refresh at is 120mhz.

This sounds like a DRIVER issue, does it not?

I'll close by saying that I'm grateful to have received a free monitor
(which my neighbor swears worked just fine when he drydocked it) . . .
but the irony is that it is making me SEASICK to look at it for any
extended period of time lol. The image is beautiful btw.

Should I perhaps try using a Sony driver?? Which one should I look
for? Dell doesn't have a PDF User Manual available for this unit (and
my neighbor tossed his). That link I gave above is the sum total of
what I can find on this monitor tsk. Any thoughts or suggestions would
be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help.

Saggin' & Seasick

 

[SCREEN SAG]

Have you tried Degaussing the monitor if it has a Degauss switch?

Ron

Hi guys. First, sorry for the delay but I want to thank you and Barry
for helping me with this.

I've been playing around with these controls some more and I think I've
got (part of) the "sag" issue taken care of. Two things have helped:
1) a slight ROTATION was needed (though I'm almost embarrassed to admit
it lol) and 2) the result was more pronouncedly improved upon LOWERING
THE REFRESH RATE of the monitor, which to my surprise changes the
__entire__ appearance of the monitor (?).

You can tell I'm obviously not great at this kind of thing. As for hz
and mhz, I'm just clueless. The back of the monitor states "50-60Hz" .
.. . but the maximum that Windows reports it can display is "120 Herz".

The status of it right now is that I seem to be able to achieve
straight angles on 3 sides of the screen ONLY -- I have to "pick my
poison" in other words: I can live with a SAG on the top, or a BOW to
the right, or a BOW to the left. I have it BOWED to the left right
now, as the least-worst option.

I know you'll think I'm crazy not to be able to achieve something as
rudimentary as straight lines on a screen, but part of the problem is
the control panel on this monitor. If there can be such a thing as
"overdesign" this has to be it! My old Samsung was just so much easier
to seat, because it had so fewer options to adjust the screen. End of
rant lol.

DEGAUSS . . .
Ron, the Dell site provides the following advice on this:

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
OPTION OSD (MANUALLY DEGAUSSING THE CRT)
1. Press the Menu button to display the Menu OSD.
2. Highlight the OPTION OSD using the Brightness and Contrast buttons,
and press the Menu button again.
3. Press the Brightness buttons to select the desired adjustment item.
--> 4. Press the Contrast buttons to activate the MANUAL DEGAUSS, move
the OSD position, lock the user controls, or change the power saving
delay time.
5. Press the Menu button once to return to the Menu OSD, or press it
twice to return to normal viewing.

If a second degauss cycle is needed, allow a minimum interval of 20
minutes for the best result.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

I've never performed this function because I've never fully understood
what it does. I gave it a shot however, and it might be my imagination
but it does appear that TEXT is a bit sharper. The button appears to
do just one thing -- it "blinks" the monitor.

My question is, since it appears to be a one-way street on this
function, how do you reverse it? I ask because I'd like to try this
more extensively . . . but (as you can see) I have to be able to
backpeddle since I don't really know what I'm doing.

Thanks guys!

SAGGIN'

 

[SCREEN SAG]

Look for source of magnetism near monitor.

Personal fan, other appliances, etc.

Move monitor to different spot (as far away from
original spot as cable will allow) and try again.

Yes, that's (long since) been rectified. I was overhearing peoples'
cell phone conversations through my speakers heh heh.

SAGGIN

 

[SCREEN SAG]

Oh, I forgot to ask a __really__ dumb question. Okay, the "herz" of
the monitor: Is a HIGHER number better, or a LOWER?

If lower, I need to __completely__ revisit this issue since I've been
trying to get it as high as possible.

SAGGIN

 

[Barry Watzman]

You are confusing all sorts of unrelated things.

The 50Hz-60Hz on the back of the monitor is it's POWER requirements (the
plug that goes into the AC wall power socket) and has NOTHING to do with
any aspect of it's video signal or display.

You are also confusing the video frequency response (measured in
Megahertz) with the vertical refresh rate (measured in Hertz), the two
are almost totally unrelated, not withstanding that they don't even have
the same units of measurement.

It is to be expected that changing the refresh rates will change pretty
much everything.

It's possible that you don't know how to adjust this, it's also possible
that the monitor has a slight problem in it's deflection circuitry. And
a 3rd possibility is that you are trying to run the monitor outside of
it's design specs. Set it for 60Hz vertical refresh and 1024x768 and
see if that fixes things.

Again, I can't recommend this item strongly enough:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=70016071&adid=17662

This is a very good 19-inch LCD flat panel monitor that is worth all of
it’s full price ($219); It has both analog VGA and digital inputs, and
built-in audio amplifier and speakers.

But there is a $100 rebate. At $119, it’s a steal.

 

[Steve Roberts]

Oh, I forgot to ask a __really__ dumb question. Okay, the "herz" of
the monitor: Is a HIGHER number better, or a LOWER?

If lower, I need to __completely__ revisit this issue since I've been
trying to get it as high as possible.

The 50/60Hz thing on the back is a red herring - it refers to the
frequency of the mains power input - ie 50Hz would be UK, 60Hz would
be USA.

As you increase the refresh rate, the image on the monitor will appear
more "solid" (ie less flicker) but may start to get softer due to
bandwidth limitations in the video circuits of the graphics card and
monitor. Most people would find 85Hz an acceptable refresh rate, but
if you are more tolerant of flicker then you may want to try 75Hz.

To be honest, if you are being bugged by this sort of thing, you
really ought to consider an LCD!

Steve

The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
http://www.restoration-team.co.uk

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Hi guys. First, sorry for the delay but I want to thank you and Barry
for helping me with this.

I've been playing around with these controls some more and I think I've
got (part of) the "sag" issue taken care of. Two things have helped:
1) a slight ROTATION was needed (though I'm almost embarrassed to admit
it lol) and 2) the result was more pronouncedly improved upon LOWERING
THE REFRESH RATE of the monitor, which to my surprise changes the
__entire__ appearance of the monitor (?).

You can tell I'm obviously not great at this kind of thing. As for hz
and mhz, I'm just clueless. The back of the monitor states "50-60Hz" .
. . but the maximum that Windows reports it can display is "120 Herz".

The status of it right now is that I seem to be able to achieve
straight angles on 3 sides of the screen ONLY -- I have to "pick my
poison" in other words: I can live with a SAG on the top, or a BOW to
the right, or a BOW to the left. I have it BOWED to the left right
now, as the least-worst option.

I know you'll think I'm crazy not to be able to achieve something as
rudimentary as straight lines on a screen, but part of the problem is
the control panel on this monitor. If there can be such a thing as
"overdesign" this has to be it! My old Samsung was just so much easier
to seat, because it had so fewer options to adjust the screen. End of
rant lol.

DEGAUSS . . .
Ron, the Dell site provides the following advice on this:

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
OPTION OSD (MANUALLY DEGAUSSING THE CRT)
1. Press the Menu button to display the Menu OSD.
2. Highlight the OPTION OSD using the Brightness and Contrast buttons,
and press the Menu button again.
3. Press the Brightness buttons to select the desired adjustment item.
--> 4. Press the Contrast buttons to activate the MANUAL DEGAUSS, move
the OSD position, lock the user controls, or change the power saving
delay time.
5. Press the Menu button once to return to the Menu OSD, or press it
twice to return to normal viewing.

If a second degauss cycle is needed, allow a minimum interval of 20
minutes for the best result.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

I've never performed this function because I've never fully understood
what it does. I gave it a shot however, and it might be my imagination
but it does appear that TEXT is a bit sharper. The button appears to
do just one thing -- it "blinks" the monitor.

My question is, since it appears to be a one-way street on this
function, how do you reverse it? I ask because I'd like to try this
more extensively . . . but (as you can see) I have to be able to
backpeddle since I don't really know what I'm doing.

Thanks guys!

SAGGIN'

Degaussing just means demagnetizing the monitor.

Some parts of the monitor are supposed to be magnetic, but others
aren't. Things like chassis parts, brackets, and so on accumulate
magnetism over time, and that is enough to affect the picture.

So CRT monitors have a degaussing capability (TV sets too - they
usually degauss automatically when powered on, as do some monitors). It
generates an appropriate magnetic pulse designed to demagnetize the
parts of the set that aren't supposed to be magnetized, without
affecting the parts that are. This pulse is pretty wild, and that's why
the monitor is weird during the event.

You can't - and wouldn't want to - backpedal (not backpeddle). It would
be sort of like spraying dirt on your windshield after cleaning it
Or even better: it would be like REfibrillating yourself after a heart
attack.

The questions about Hertz have been well covered by the other posters.

 

[Barry Watzman]

Re: "This pulse is pretty wild, and that's why the monitor is weird
during the event"

No, wrong.

There is no "pulse". In fact, it's just line voltage (60Hz 110 volts
ac) applied to a coil around the front end of the CRT through a
varistor. As the current through the coil and varistor causes the
varistor to get HOT, it's increased resistance decreases the current
through the coil gradually (until the circuit cuts it off when it's down
to almost nothing anyway) to prevent remagnetization by cutoff of the
degaussing coil.

The thing that you are really trying to demagnetize is the CRT shadow
mask (a sheet of thin steel whith tiny holes in it), which is inside the
CRT tube itself about 1"-2" in back of the inside of the screen (some
types of color CRTs don't have shadow masks). Magnetization of other
parts of the monitor or TV chassis is less of an issue, although it is
relevant.

The primary effect of magnetization of the shadow mask or part of the
monitor is lack of purity in the display (e.g. if you send the monitor a
screen of nothing but solid red (or blue or green), you see colors other
than red (or blue or green) on the screen.

It has nothing to do with geometric distortion, which is why it's way
off base in the discussion presented by the original poster.

Also, the built-in degaussing coils are "puny" and don't do much. If
there is a serious problem, you need a stand-alone external degaussing
coil, much higher power, which service shops have.

 

[SAGGIN']

As you increase the refresh rate, the image on the monitor will appear
more "solid" (ie less flicker) but may start to get softer due to
bandwidth limitations in the video circuits of the graphics card and
monitor. Most people would find 85Hz an acceptable refresh rate, but
if you are more tolerant of flicker then you may want to try 75Hz.

Well there's __one__ thing I seem to have remembered lol. Thanks
Steve.

 

[SAGGIN']

Degaussing just means demagnetizing the monitor.

Some parts of the monitor are supposed to be magnetic, but others
aren't. Things like chassis parts, brackets, and so on accumulate
magnetism over time, and that is enough to affect the picture.

So CRT monitors have a degaussing capability (TV sets too - they
usually degauss automatically when powered on, as do some monitors). It
generates an appropriate magnetic pulse designed to demagnetize the
parts of the set that aren't supposed to be magnetized, without
affecting the parts that are. This pulse is pretty wild, and that's why
the monitor is weird during the event.

You can't - and wouldn't want to - backpedal (not backpeddle). It would
be sort of like spraying dirt on your windshield after cleaning it
Or even better: it would be like REfibrillating yourself after a heart
attack.

Ah! Thanks Gene. Learning more by the minute here lol . . .

SAGGIN

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Re: "This pulse is pretty wild, and that's why the monitor is weird during
the event"

No, wrong.

No, oversimplified for efficiency in typing.

[...]

 

[Shawk]

Yes, that's (long since) been rectified. I was overhearing peoples'
cell phone conversations through my speakers heh heh.

SAGGIN

Speakers that aren't properly shielded (cheaper ones) can cause
something similar to what you have. Do you have a speaker sitting on
top of the monitor?

Your comment on trying to get the highest refresh rate - I have a 21"
and mine is set at 85Hz which is more than adequate. If the rate is too
low you'd see flickering. Anything over around 60/70Hz makes the
flickering invisible (it's a personal thing - there's no actual number).
120Hz is too high and not needed at all. Knock it down to around 80Hz.