Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-040 - 828750

  • Thread starter Jerry Bryant [MSFT]
  • Start date
S

Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]

I apologize.
Now there you have a point.

Okay Phil you scored one point but you would have gotten a lot farther
in my book if you had done a better job and attacked the manner of the
posting and not attacked the messenger.

I honestly don't know when Jerry sleeps. Attacking Jerry's posting and
employment status immediately put everyone who knows and respects Jerry
on the defensive.

Susan

Bill said:
Show me the digital signature in Jerry's post?

I think that is what Phil was complaining about, and I think it is a valid
criticism. Here we've been hyping:

http://www.microsoft.com/security/antivirus/authenticate_mail.asp

and although two of the three bulleted points are covered, there's no
digital sig.

I'm of two minds about this--I don't relish talking newbies through
acquiring PGP and learning how to validate the signatures--I've never done
this myself! However, it's a very reasonable thing to do, and Larry
Samuel's post does it right (well, with postscripts!)

--
"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of being,
not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still does
not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on your patches.
Demand better security from vendors and hold them responsible.
Use what you have, and make sure you know how to use it properly
and effectively."
~Rain Forest Puppy
http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
 
F

Fade Away

Think of it as behavior modification at a distance. The post was written in
sorrow, not in anger.
 
R

Richard G. Harper [MVP Win9x]

Actually, I think Jim pointed that out. <G>

--
Richard G. Harper (MVP Win9x) (e-mail address removed)
* PLEASE post all messages and replies to the newsgroup so all may
* benefit from the discussion. Private mail is usually not replied to.
Help US help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


PA Bear said:
As another (MVP Richard Harper?) pointed out in this overly-long thread
[Yeah, I'm adding to it!], when any software manufacturer publicly
acknowledges any vulnerability, doing so also draws it to the attention of
bad guys who are tempted to create, often successfully, malware/Trojans to
exploit the vulnerability before a patch can be written, thoroughly tested,
and released to end-users. I think you can easily see it's a tough call to
make.

And how would it serve Microsoft's interests if it were negligient enough to
assist in creating more vulnerability for Windows users?

The fact that a Cumulative Patch for IE was released late on a Friday or
anytime on a Saturday (depending on where one lives on this planet) and with
great fanfare gives you a clue as to both the critical nature of this patch
and the extra resources (read: MS coders and testers) who were pushed to
accomplish the task.

At least that's my take on it.

Your tire analogy is a poor one to me. The vulnerability addressed in
MS03-040/Q828750 *may* cause inconvenience to some Windows users (and if
your virus definitions were up-to-date, all current MS patches were
installed, and you practiced Safe Hex, you weren't very vulnerable in the
first place). The Ford Motor/Firestone fiasco (http://snurl.com/2kk0) in
comparison *killed* hundreds, if not thousands, of people (an inordinate
number of them from Latin America and Third World countries). And Firestone
did warn Ford about the dangers associated with underinflating the tires but
Ford chose to ignore it in the interests of sales and corporate greed
(IMHO). (BTW Firestone was forced out of business, but not Ford.)
 
P

PCR

Let me mediate this dispute... well... I don't see where he did say it
in the first place. He claims to have said it, implicitely. But it
couldn't be you, Harper-- you are not in this this thread at all that I
can see.

......Quote...........
I repeat: I very much would NOT want them to make known any
vulnerabilities
prior to having a fix for them. All that does is exacerbate bad
conditions.
--
Jim Eshelman, MS-MVP Windows
http://aumha.org/
http://WinSupportCenter.com/
......End quote.....

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
(e-mail address removed)
| Actually, I think Jim pointed that out. <G>
|
| --
| Richard G. Harper (MVP Win9x) (e-mail address removed)
| * PLEASE post all messages and replies to the newsgroup so all may
| * benefit from the discussion. Private mail is usually not replied
to.
| Help US help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
|
|
| | > As another (MVP Richard Harper?) pointed out in this overly-long
thread
| > [Yeah, I'm adding to it!], when any software manufacturer publicly
| > acknowledges any vulnerability, doing so also draws it to the
attention of
| > bad guys who are tempted to create, often successfully,
malware/Trojans to
| > exploit the vulnerability before a patch can be written, thoroughly
| tested,
| > and released to end-users. I think you can easily see it's a tough
call
| to
| > make.
| >
| > And how would it serve Microsoft's interests if it were negligient
enough
| to
| > assist in creating more vulnerability for Windows users?
| >
| > The fact that a Cumulative Patch for IE was released late on a
Friday or
| > anytime on a Saturday (depending on where one lives on this planet)
and
| with
| > great fanfare gives you a clue as to both the critical nature of
this
| patch
| > and the extra resources (read: MS coders and testers) who were
pushed to
| > accomplish the task.
| >
| > At least that's my take on it.
| >
| > Your tire analogy is a poor one to me. The vulnerability addressed
in
| > MS03-040/Q828750 *may* cause inconvenience to some Windows users
(and if
| > your virus definitions were up-to-date, all current MS patches were
| > installed, and you practiced Safe Hex, you weren't very vulnerable
in the
| > first place). The Ford Motor/Firestone fiasco
(http://snurl.com/2kk0) in
| > comparison *killed* hundreds, if not thousands, of people (an
inordinate
| > number of them from Latin America and Third World countries). And
| Firestone
| > did warn Ford about the dangers associated with underinflating the
tires
| but
| > Ford chose to ignore it in the interests of sales and corporate
greed
| > (IMHO). (BTW Firestone was forced out of business, but not Ford.)
| > --
| > ~PA Bear
| >
| > Me2 wrote:
| > >> PA Bear,
| > >>
| > >> So I read from your link that known Trojans/virus/whatever were
| > >> hijacking IE at least as far back as 09/27/03
| > >> (http://news.com.com/2100-7349-5083234.html).
| > >>
| > >> Doesn't this just make it more outrageous that Microsoft does not
| counsel
| > >> it's customers to restrict IE use or pull the plug on IE until a
fix is
| > >> available - when a known vulnerabilities is starting to be
exploited?
| > >> What was (and is) Microsoft waiting for - a full blown active
attack
| > >> effecting millions of systems? This makes me feel even better
about
| > >> security support from M$.
| > >>
| > >> I believe that Microsoft is working very hard on producing the
patches
| > >> and stuff. But it would be *nice* when a new vulnerabilities is
| > >> ACTIVELY being exploited that Microsoft warn their customers.
When a
| > >> manufacture knows that a certain type of tire can blowup on your
car,
| > >> these tires ARE blowing up on cars, wouldn't you like to know
before
| you
| > >> go to drive?
| >
|
|
 
M

Me2

Rich, PA Bear,

Yaw know, this simple statement that "if Microsoft publicly acknowledges ANY
vulnerability then bad guys will come looking to exploited it" is simply
marking crap! The bad guys are always looking to exploit Microsoft
vulnerabilities - whether Microsoft says anything or not!

You MUST differentiate between a vulnerability that is unknown in the "wild"
and is NOT ACTIVELY being exploited, and a vulnerability that IS in the wild
and IS being ACTIVELY exploited.

No argument from me on the "not in the wild/not active" - it is
irresponsible and possibly negligent to notify the script kiddies about
these. Mums the word...

On the other had - when a vulnerability is KNOW (posted on, talked about,
etc) in the "wild" and is ACTIVELY being exploited/tested/ramping-up etc
there is a tough call to be made when to notify customers that a turning off
a IE feature or pulling the plug on IE is advisable to protect information
security. At some point it is irresponsible and possibly negligent to NOT
notify customers that there is a vulnerability!!!

"Yaw know boys, sales will suffer if we ask customers to turn off the
ActiveX feature or restrict the use of IE. We ad better just say nothing
till that patch comes out. If a few thousand users and organizations get
compromised - the layers can handle any problems (they all checked the
license agreement anyway, ha ha ha). -- but if the problem gets out of
hand, wellll we may need to switch sides...)


Might we rephrase it:

BRAKING NEWS - We join the news conference already started...
"... Microsoft chose to ignore it in the interests of sales and corporate
greed." When asked why they waited to notify customers about the active
vulnerability Microsoft said "Well we are not liable for the damages, all
customers checked the license agreement exempting us from liability - so we
thought it was ok to wait." "The hospital computer that was compromised and
handed out the wrong drugs was the direct result of a wacko - not us... he
killed all those people..." But sir, if Microsoft had notified customers
that the vulnerability was actively being exploited, the hospital could have
disabled their IE before the compromise occurred...

Get it?

Me out


Richard G. Harper said:
Actually, I think Jim pointed that out. <G>

--
Richard G. Harper (MVP Win9x) (e-mail address removed)
* PLEASE post all messages and replies to the newsgroup so all may
* benefit from the discussion. Private mail is usually not replied to.
Help US help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


PA Bear said:
As another (MVP Richard Harper?) pointed out in this overly-long thread
[Yeah, I'm adding to it!], when any software manufacturer publicly
acknowledges any vulnerability, doing so also draws it to the attention of
bad guys who are tempted to create, often successfully, malware/Trojans to
exploit the vulnerability before a patch can be written, thoroughly tested,
and released to end-users. I think you can easily see it's a tough call to
make.

And how would it serve Microsoft's interests if it were negligient
enough
 
G

George \(Bindar Dundat\)

Actually I think I did as a side comment to something Jim had stated.

--
George (Bindar Dundat ©) MS-MVP
This information is provided "AS IS"
It may even be wrong!
For Windows Troubleshooting Tips see
9x/ME
http://aumha.org/win4/a/tshoot.htm
2000/XP
http://aumha.org/win5/a/tshoot.htm
| Actually, I think Jim pointed that out. <G>
|
| --
| Richard G. Harper (MVP Win9x) (e-mail address removed)
| * PLEASE post all messages and replies to the newsgroup so all may
| * benefit from the discussion. Private mail is usually not replied to.
| Help US help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
|
|
| | > As another (MVP Richard Harper?) pointed out in this overly-long thread
| > [Yeah, I'm adding to it!], when any software manufacturer publicly
| > acknowledges any vulnerability, doing so also draws it to the attention of
| > bad guys who are tempted to create, often successfully, malware/Trojans to
| > exploit the vulnerability before a patch can be written, thoroughly
| tested,
| > and released to end-users. I think you can easily see it's a tough call
| to
| > make.
| >
| > And how would it serve Microsoft's interests if it were negligient enough
| to
| > assist in creating more vulnerability for Windows users?
| >
| > The fact that a Cumulative Patch for IE was released late on a Friday or
| > anytime on a Saturday (depending on where one lives on this planet) and
| with
| > great fanfare gives you a clue as to both the critical nature of this
| patch
| > and the extra resources (read: MS coders and testers) who were pushed to
| > accomplish the task.
| >
| > At least that's my take on it.
| >
| > Your tire analogy is a poor one to me. The vulnerability addressed in
| > MS03-040/Q828750 *may* cause inconvenience to some Windows users (and if
| > your virus definitions were up-to-date, all current MS patches were
| > installed, and you practiced Safe Hex, you weren't very vulnerable in the
| > first place). The Ford Motor/Firestone fiasco (http://snurl.com/2kk0) in
| > comparison *killed* hundreds, if not thousands, of people (an inordinate
| > number of them from Latin America and Third World countries). And
| Firestone
| > did warn Ford about the dangers associated with underinflating the tires
| but
| > Ford chose to ignore it in the interests of sales and corporate greed
| > (IMHO). (BTW Firestone was forced out of business, but not Ford.)
| > --
| > ~PA Bear
| >
| > Me2 wrote:
| > >> PA Bear,
| > >>
| > >> So I read from your link that known Trojans/virus/whatever were
| > >> hijacking IE at least as far back as 09/27/03
| > >> (http://news.com.com/2100-7349-5083234.html).
| > >>
| > >> Doesn't this just make it more outrageous that Microsoft does not
| counsel
| > >> it's customers to restrict IE use or pull the plug on IE until a fix is
| > >> available - when a known vulnerabilities is starting to be exploited?
| > >> What was (and is) Microsoft waiting for - a full blown active attack
| > >> effecting millions of systems? This makes me feel even better about
| > >> security support from M$.
| > >>
| > >> I believe that Microsoft is working very hard on producing the patches
| > >> and stuff. But it would be *nice* when a new vulnerabilities is
| > >> ACTIVELY being exploited that Microsoft warn their customers. When a
| > >> manufacture knows that a certain type of tire can blowup on your car,
| > >> these tires ARE blowing up on cars, wouldn't you like to know before
| you
| > >> go to drive?
| >
|
|
 
R

Richard G. Harper [MVP Win9x]

Actually, you may be right. :)

Sorry, the last time I read this much prose in one sitting it had a Russian
author's name attached to it. <VBG>

--
Richard G. Harper (MVP Win9x) (e-mail address removed)
* PLEASE post all messages and replies to the newsgroup so all may
* benefit from the discussion. Private mail is usually not replied to.
Help US help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


George (Bindar Dundat) said:
Actually I think I did as a side comment to something Jim had stated.

--
George (Bindar Dundat ©) MS-MVP
This information is provided "AS IS"
It may even be wrong!
For Windows Troubleshooting Tips see
9x/ME
http://aumha.org/win4/a/tshoot.htm
2000/XP
http://aumha.org/win5/a/tshoot.htm
| Actually, I think Jim pointed that out. <G>
|
| --
| Richard G. Harper (MVP Win9x) (e-mail address removed)
| * PLEASE post all messages and replies to the newsgroup so all may
| * benefit from the discussion. Private mail is usually not replied to.
| Help US help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
|
|
| | > As another (MVP Richard Harper?) pointed out in this overly-long thread
| > [Yeah, I'm adding to it!], when any software manufacturer publicly
| > acknowledges any vulnerability, doing so also draws it to the attention of
| > bad guys who are tempted to create, often successfully, malware/Trojans to
| > exploit the vulnerability before a patch can be written, thoroughly
| tested,
| > and released to end-users. I think you can easily see it's a tough call
| to
| > make.
| >
| > And how would it serve Microsoft's interests if it were negligient enough
| to
| > assist in creating more vulnerability for Windows users?
| >
| > The fact that a Cumulative Patch for IE was released late on a Friday or
| > anytime on a Saturday (depending on where one lives on this planet) and
| with
| > great fanfare gives you a clue as to both the critical nature of this
| patch
| > and the extra resources (read: MS coders and testers) who were pushed to
| > accomplish the task.
| >
| > At least that's my take on it.
| >
| > Your tire analogy is a poor one to me. The vulnerability addressed in
| > MS03-040/Q828750 *may* cause inconvenience to some Windows users (and if
| > your virus definitions were up-to-date, all current MS patches were
| > installed, and you practiced Safe Hex, you weren't very vulnerable in the
| > first place). The Ford Motor/Firestone fiasco (http://snurl.com/2kk0) in
| > comparison *killed* hundreds, if not thousands, of people (an inordinate
| > number of them from Latin America and Third World countries). And
| Firestone
| > did warn Ford about the dangers associated with underinflating the tires
| but
| > Ford chose to ignore it in the interests of sales and corporate greed
| > (IMHO). (BTW Firestone was forced out of business, but not Ford.)
| > --
| > ~PA Bear
| >
| > Me2 wrote:
| > >> PA Bear,
| > >>
| > >> So I read from your link that known Trojans/virus/whatever were
| > >> hijacking IE at least as far back as 09/27/03
| > >> (http://news.com.com/2100-7349-5083234.html).
| > >>
| > >> Doesn't this just make it more outrageous that Microsoft does not
| counsel
| > >> it's customers to restrict IE use or pull the plug on IE until a fix is
| > >> available - when a known vulnerabilities is starting to be exploited?
| > >> What was (and is) Microsoft waiting for - a full blown active attack
| > >> effecting millions of systems? This makes me feel even better about
| > >> security support from M$.
| > >>
| > >> I believe that Microsoft is working very hard on producing the patches
| > >> and stuff. But it would be *nice* when a new vulnerabilities is
| > >> ACTIVELY being exploited that Microsoft warn their customers. When a
| > >> manufacture knows that a certain type of tire can blowup on your car,
| > >> these tires ARE blowing up on cars, wouldn't you like to know before
| you
| > >> go to drive?
| >
|
|
 
C

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

About whether MS should publicize software security defects:
- when discovered
- when fix is available
- when exploited

Several aspects to this, but I'm going to zoom in on only one of them
here (and one that applies to backup as well) - negative time lines.


"Backup!" is an easy blame-the-victim mantra, but in practice it's
quite a challenge, given these scope and time conundrums:

1) Backup must be up so up to date that you lose nothing
2) ...but not so up to date as to include the disaster!
3) Backup must be up so complete that you lose nothing
4) ...but not complete as to include the disaster!

In practice, one accepts some data loss, i.e. that data that was done
since the most recent backup that wasn't affected by the disaster.

But what happens when the disaster is present in latent form for a
long time, so that it's present within all the data you want to get
back? That's what I mean by a negative timeline, and you can't
address this problem unless you can:
- filter off the problem (i.e. repair)
- exclude the problem on a scope basis

Both of those workarounds involve approaches that modern Windows is
arguably becoming poorer on - often the advice has been "forget data
recovery or troubleshooting, given that NTFS won't let you get under
the skin; just restore from backup and/or just re-install", and the
blurring between data and program has made it difficult to apply risk
hygiene to the data set that is to be backed up.


FTR my call is for a maintenance OS that facilitates repair and
troubleshooting within two common formality requirements:
- must run independently of HD in case HD is insane (dara rec)
- must run without running any code off HD at all (malware)

Such a mOS must also enjoy untrammeled access to everything! As one
person's maintenance tool is another's hacking tool, this approach
would probably be limited to XP Home only.

In fact, I'd use this as a leverage to upsell business to XP Pro.
Unlike artificially limiting incoming network connections, this
difference adds value to both Pro and Home.


Negative timelines apply to riak patches as well - because so far, the
general assumption is that things will proceed as follows:

1) White-hats discover sware defect with security implications
2) White-hats inform MS
3) MS develops a fix
4) MS makes the fix available
5) MS publically announces flaw, fix, motivates patching
6) Black-hats discover the flaw
7) Black-hats exploit the flaw
8) Unpatched PCs spread the malware
9) So we must concentrate on getting patches applied

On what basis does one assume the black hats will always be slow on
the draw? What if (6) and (7) happen before anything else?

As it is, hats often become grey when there's a long delay between (2)
and (5). There's a dangerous perception that MS won't move on a risk
until a proof-of-concept exploit is at least privately demonstrated,
and from there, frustrations combined with poor lab hygiene ("Who let
out the rabid rats from cage 17?" ' Not me ' ' uh-huh ' ' Nope ' )
can lead to (8) pretty quickly - within minutes, in fact.

My approach has been to discuss as-yet-unexploited malware
opportunities quite liberally within closed forums, but not in the
broader public, and part of what I hope will come of my new MVP-hood
is a better channel to MS for such info.

My logic is rather like a self-imposed NDA; once it's already public
knowledge, my need to stay silent is gone. But for those who need the
ego-boost of being recognised as "first to discover...", the
temptatrion will be to speak first, or even strike first.

-- Risk Management is the clue that asks:
"Why do I keep open buckets of petrol next to all the
ashtrays in the lounge, when I don't even have a car?"
 
C

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

Me2 wrote:
But that's not a valid comparison to antivirus manufacturers.
... every single computer user needs to have a good, updated
antivirus program running that dynamically monitors for virus
Anyone who is running a good, updated antivirus program that meets these
needs, there is no problem.

SYJ?

I don't *ever* confuse antivirus (exploit detection) with risk
management. The one is NOT a substitute for the other, and it's a
gross disservice to even the newest user to suggest that all they have
to do is keep thier av up to date, then they can do what they like.

I explain these concepts to newbies as "small walls and large fences".

Risk management is like the small wall. You can walk around it (i.e.
use some other point of entry that is unmanaged) but you cannot go
through it - no matter how fresh from the tank you are, or how
polymorphic, or even if you are one-off FBI prototypeware.

Virus scanning is like the large fence; there may not be any way
around it, but you may well be able to cut through it (kill the av, or
enjoy the fact that an earlier malware has already done this), climb
over it (use methods that aren't heuristically detected or monitored),
or simply pass through the holes (be too new or rare to be detected).

In fact, traditional av is more like a doorman who has an eidatic
memory for the mugshots of every known perp. "Sorry, I didn't
recognise him in that coat" (re-packaged malware, mutations,
unexpected and thus unmonitored file types) or "I never saw him
before!" (the Day Zero effect).


Traditional av is based on "virus infects computer", where it's
effective to micro-manage each PC to prevent malware's persistance
from one boot up to the next. Adding risk management has value,
because currently unknown malware that relies on points of entry (or
escalation) that are blocked, will fail or be better contained.

But we are moving to "worm infects infospehere", where the malware
finds it far more useful to simply re-infect unmanaged PCs as soon as
they appear ion the Internet than to bother about persisting across
bootups. Servers that boast year-long uptimes can act as fat pipes to
hose the rest of consumerland... in these cases, risk management is
your primary defence; you cannot ever "clean" the infosphere!


"Virus? Impossible! I update my av every week without fail!"

Slammer went global in 10 minutes, doubles the number of infected PCs
every 8 seconds for a while (and no, I don't think that was from 1 PC
to 2 PCs infected <g>). Does anyone *seriously* think that...
- your av vendor will get a sample...
- ...anylize it...
- ...code appropriate sig data...
- ...and let's be generous and assume no engine mods needed...
- ...test the thing...
- ...as you'd want better quality than the spelling in this post?
- ...deploy the fix on their site...
- ...push it to users (malware-spoof risk there!)...
- ...or wait for users to grab it and apply it
....is going to happen within 10 minutes?

I love risk management, and I extend this way beyond MS's patching of
particular holes in a collinder (when I'd rather use a bucket instead)

But even buckets can have holes, i.e. something designed to not run
scripts in HTML email "messages" etc. can still facilitate this if the
code is itself flawed. Even good data/program distinctions evaporate.

Historically my risk management approach has tended to assume that if
functionalities are removed or suppressed, one need not bother to
patch them. False, because code holes operate at a level under code
design, rendering the latter as meaningless as NTFS file system
protection in defective hardware or raw sector access scenarios.


Finally, there's the difference between pre-emptively killing inactive
malware, and killing actrive malware that may shoot back.

In Win9x, or in most cases an NT on FATxx, you can formally scan and
clean malware that would be active if the PC was allowed to boot.
You'd still have inactive malware hidden in mailboxes and SR data, and
there'd still be malware outside (LAN, Internet, removable media) and
your safety against that hinges on the clue and the ability to say No.

Bad design (e.g. auto-running scripts without prompting) or code
defects (allowing direct penetration through unchecked buffers) rob
the user of the opportunity to say No. You can no longer "blame the
victim" for acting in a foolhardy manner, unless you accuse home users
of dereliction of duty as sysadmins (a job description of which they
were not aware) or of poor judgement in using software (I say,
"software" not "MSware" as other OSs have holes too).

When it comes to risk management - and patches are often the only
defence against the Slammers and Lovesans of the world - you face a
similar problem. Before the infosphere got actively infected, you
could stroll down to the update site and pull down patches at your
liesure. Once the war's on, you have to race the malware to pull down
the patch and apply it before you are attacked - and when it's a large
patch from one server vs. tiny attackers actively sent by thousands of
systems, it's a race you will lose.

It's not like the old days, where only servers had fat pipes that
could out-gun the modems of infected consumer PCs. These days, Joe
Sixpack is packing server-grade broadband :)


My approach, as an OS designer, would be to recognise that no code
should ever be assumed perfect, and thus all risk-relevant code should
be modularised to facilitate "bulkhead" damage control.

If there's no good reason to expose a functionality to the outside
world (why is it that XP Home needs to be remotely administered, when
corporates needing remote admin are supposed to use Pro?) then don't
do it, or at least make it possible to shut down that subsystem.


The av is your "goalie of last resort", and every unexpected "Virus
detected and blocked" alert is not a reason to feel warm and fuzzy
that your av's working - it's a reason to feel the chill of fear,
because something had an unexpected shot at goal.


------------ ----- --- -- - - - -
Drugs are usually safe. Inject? (Y/n)
 
K

Keith W. McCammon

Why is everyone responding to this and getting up in arms? These things are
posted here all of the time. What a waste of disk space...
 
S

Sandi - Microsoft MVP

There is an old saying - "Keep it simple". So my advice will continue to
be - obtain your updates from one place, and one place only - the Update
button.

And when a critical update takes days to appear on Windows Update, yet can
be access via the Technet article that is invariably linked to the Q article
that points to Windows Update in the first place? Then what?

Your attitude is wrong.

--
Install the latest IE cumulative patch for protection against QHost:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-040.asp
More information about QHosts can be found here:
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer/darnit_3.htm#qhost
________________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer
 
S

Sandi - Microsoft MVP

I think because the poster had a go at Jerry, who is well known, much
respect and loved. Jerry has sweated blood (figuratively speaking) to get
things improved for the general user - pushing for the security newsgroups,
and doing his darndest to get important information out there as quick as
possible.

--
Install the latest IE cumulative patch for protection against QHost:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-040.asp
More information about QHosts can be found here:
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer/darnit_3.htm#qhost
________________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer
 
S

Sandi - Microsoft MVP

Me2 said:
Jim,

I think that it is irresponsible for Microsoft not to alert customers that
machines are being infected through a vulnerability that they know about and
are working on a fix for. (No alert needed for vulnerabilities that have no
know active virus. In this case Qhosts WAS active).

Instructions for avoiding the infection need to be disseminated
immediately - I don't know why anyone thinks this is wrong.

Do some self education on the history of Blaster - where it came from, how
it came to be etc and then come back and we'll discuss things. Here's a
hint for you - Xfocus.

--
Install the latest IE cumulative patch for protection against QHost:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-040.asp
More information about QHosts can be found here:
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer/darnit_3.htm#qhost
________________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer
 
P

Papa

Of course there are ways - however remote - but my argument still holds,
keep it simple and use the Update button. The general user, on average, will
benefit more by that rule (and get caught less) than with any other method.

Hang in there, I admire your persistence.
 
K

Keith W. McCammon

Yeah, that's what I figured. But by the same token, folks who know Jerry,
know Jerry. No sense trying to justify that to someone who obviously can't
grasp lesser concepts.
 
S

Sandi - Microsoft MVP

The lock on your front door has a defect, but you don't know it! And a
thief is going around breaking into houses using a special key that takes
advantage of the defect. The lock manufacturer know about the defect, the
thieves know about the defect, but the lock owners do not.

The thieves invariably WON'T know about the defect until the defect is
published.

--
Install the latest IE cumulative patch for protection against QHost:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-040.asp
More information about QHosts can be found here:
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer/darnit_3.htm#qhost
________________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer
 
S

Sandi - Microsoft MVP

Me2 said:
Rich, PA Bear,

Yaw know, this simple statement that "if Microsoft publicly acknowledges ANY
vulnerability then bad guys will come looking to exploited it" is simply
marking crap! The bad guys are always looking to exploit Microsoft
vulnerabilities - whether Microsoft says anything or not!

Xfocus.

--
Install the latest IE cumulative patch for protection against QHost:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-040.asp
More information about QHosts can be found here:
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer/darnit_3.htm#qhost
________________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer
 
S

Sandi - Microsoft MVP

Keith W. McCammon said:
Yeah, that's what I figured. But by the same token, folks who know Jerry,
know Jerry. No sense trying to justify that to someone who obviously can't
grasp lesser concepts.

But...but...we're eternal optimists :blush:)

--
Install the latest IE cumulative patch for protection against QHost:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-040.asp
More information about QHosts can be found here:
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer/darnit_3.htm#qhost
________________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer
 
P

Papa

Days?? Hardly. I was aware of it simply by clicking on the Update button and
installing the two critical updates that were listed. When did I do it?
Friday, October 3rd.

Every user should frequently check for updates, whether they have the update
notification enabled or not.
 

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