Microsoft: Please fix Vista's flawed search or give rights to downgrade to XP Pro until it is fixed

[Celegans]

How is it being unreasonable to expect Windows Explorer in Vista Ultimate to
search as well as Windows Explorer in Windows 95?



An example: I was looking for some old Delphi code examples for how to work
with the clipboard programmatically.



I searched my old directory of Delphi code fragments (*.pas files) for the
string "clipboard". Windows Explorer in Vista Ultimate search returns ZERO
hits.



Searching the same directory and files over a virtual network using Windows
Explorer for Windows 2000 returns 26 hits. These 26 hits are likely a good
starting place in figuring out the code I now need to write. With Vista I'm
still scratching my head.



When will Microsoft listen and fix the flaw in Vista's search? I have been
looking for a Windows Vista search solution since July 2007. Microsoft
refused to fix the flawed Vista search Vista SP1.



A request for help via an MSDN "Technical Support Incident" goes nowhere
since Microsoft has no current solution.



Microsoft refuses to permit downgrades from Vista Ultimate to Windows XP Pro
to get a search that still works. A Microsoft operator at 425-882-8080 gave
me the E-mail address of Rich Kaplan for dispute resolution when I was
denied permission to downgrade from Vista Ultimate to XP Pro. Even an
appeal to the Microsoft's VP Rich Kaplan ([email protected]), North
America Customer Service Escalation Team, fell on deaf ears. Microsoft
simply doesn't care about search problems in Vista.



Microsoft's "Advanced search techniques" blog gives a number of examples of
the failures of Vista's search, but no solution from Microsoft:

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/05/09/advanced-search-techniques.aspx.
Apparently, new postings showing additional failures of Vista's search on
this blog are no longer welcome.



Microsoft Vista search: "not good enough for programmers, scientists, or
engineers."



From National Instruments:

http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5604#toc4

"A critical aspect of any scientific and engineering application is saving
data to disk. The most well-conceived applications are ineffective if you
cannot quickly locate and interpret acquired data later for meaningful
information. . . . The new Windows Vista operating system provides vastly
improved search tools to help you locate and organize such files; however,
engineers and scientists often have additional needs with regard to
accessing stored data that Windows Vista search may not be able to satisfy."

Why would any person, corporation or government group buy Vista if old
files - or even new files -- cannot be found via Vista's search now? While
Vista's new search is fast, it doesn't search all the files. Microsoft
decides which of your files you don't get to find. My guess is I cannot
find 15-20% of my old files, or even new ones I create, using Vista's
search.



What does it take to get Microsoft to listen and fix this problem?



C.E.

 

[Gordon]

An example: I was looking for some old Delphi code examples for how to
work with the clipboard programmatically.
I searched my old directory of Delphi code fragments (*.pas files) for
the string "clipboard". Windows Explorer in Vista Ultimate search returns
ZERO hits.

have you told Windows search to index that folder? (Not knowing anything
about Vista, but using Windows desktop search in XP, if the files are in a
non-default location, then unless you tell WS to index that location it
WON'T find any files....)

 

[John Barnes]

Leave the * out of your argument Used advanced and include non indexed
items

 

[Celegans]

Leave the * out of your argument Used advanced and include non indexed
items

Sorry, but the "*" is irrelevant to my argument. And, checking or
unchecking "Include non-indexed, hidden, and system files (might be slow)"
doesn't change anything.

When searching, Vista only reads certain file extensions -- whether or not
indexing is being used.

Once you figure out that Vista is not searching a particular file extension
of interest, the user must figure out how to add a "filter" so Vista
understands that extension. I'm not sure where the instructions are for
adding a new filter, but I would need to add dozens and dozens of new
filters so Vista would understand my files. That is not practical.

Figuring out that Vista is ignoring particular extensions can take quite a
bit of detective time -- I spent weeks when I was new to Vista trying to use
search before I concluded Vista's search was flawed. Most people just won't
know that Vista isn't returning all the hits.

I have told Microsoft developers about scientific data that uses the same
extensions two different ways, and there are two versions of those two
different ways. Writing a "filter" so Vista can search that file extension
with four variants would be futile. Why not provide a way to search all
files when needed, regardless of whether they are indexed, and regardless of
their file extensions? Windows 95 could do that, why can't Vista?

Run a controlled experiment yourself of Vista's flawed search:

Create a new directory, say "TestSearch".
Create a file, say "test.txt" that has the word "Vista" in the file.
Copy test.txt and rename it to be "test.R".
Copy test.txt and rename it to be "test.pas".
The files "test.txt", "test.R" and "test.pas" are now identical.

From Windows Explorer, right click on the TestSearch directory and select
"Search...".
Enter "Vista" in the search box.
Vista finds only the "test.txt" file.

Select Advanced Search.
Check the "Include non-indexed, hidden, and system files (might be slow)".
Press the search button.
Vista still finds ONLY the test.txt file. The files test.R and test.pas are
invisible to Vista's search.

I would welcome any configuration ideas on how to get Vista to search and
find the files, test.R or test.pas, in the above controlled experiment. I
have turned indexing on, indexing off. I have re-indexed my whole machine.
Nothing seems to work, and I've only been looking for a solution since July
2007.

If you program in R (.R files) (http://www.r-project.org/), Vista is
worthless for finding old code snippets. If you code in Delphi (.pas
files), Vista is worthless in finding old code snippets. There are many
files that Vista simply ignores. My guess is that Vista refuses to search
about 15-20% of files important to me.

All I'm asking for is the capability that was in Windows Explorer since
Windows 95. Why is this too much to expect from Vista or Microsoft?

And if there is no way to do the file search that was available in Windows
95, why doesn't Microsoft give me permission to downgrade from Vista
Ultimate to Windows XP so I can get a search that works?

C.E.

 

[Celegans]

have you told Windows search to index that folder? (Not knowing anything
about Vista, but using Windows desktop search in XP, if the files are in a
non-default location, then unless you tell WS to index that location it
WON'T find any files....)

I have indexed, and re-indexed my whole C: drive. I have tried several
configuration changes suggested to me.

I've only been looking for a solution since July 2007, including a
"technical support incident" call directly to MSDN, and private E-mails with
two different Microsoft product managers. One of the Microsoft product
managers suggested I request a "hot fix". But little people like me are
ignored by Microsoft. After hours on the phone, my conclusion is that only
someone inside Microsoft can request a hot fix -- not me. Why the two
different product managers don't do anything about the problem is a mystery
to me.

Statistically, Vista's search does work much of the time, and often returns
most of the results. Because of that many people are fooled into thinking
that Vista's search is complete and correct. Sometimes it is, but what good
is a search tool if it cannot be trusted to ALWAYS be complete and correct?
So if one only needs partial search Vista is "good enough", which is the
current Microsoft stand.

Apparently, Microsoft will only care when there are more complaints that
Vista's search is flawed, or until some big corporation or government group
insists that search be fixed in Vista.

C.E.

 

[PaulB]

I just tried your experiment on my Vista Home Premium and it found all three
files.

 

[John Barnes]

The * is relevant since the old 'wildcard' is not used

 

[Chupacabra]

I just tried your experiment on my Vista Home Premium and it found all
three
files.

I tried it on Vista Business SP1 x64, and it did not find the files, only
the .TXT file. Are you sure you really changed the extensions?

 

[retroman]

When searching, Vista only reads certain file extensions -- whether or not
indexing is being used.

Vista searches only the extensions that you specify in the Advanced dialog for
Indexing Options. This makes the indexing task much more efficient by ignoring
extensions that you don't care about. However, you have complete control over this
list. If necessary, it's a snap to add new extensions.

... I would need to add dozens and dozens of new
filters so Vista would understand my files. That is not practical.

No filters are needed. Add an extension by simply typing it in the file types tab of
the Advanced Options dialog and clicking the "Add extension" button. It will then
appear in the list of extensions, where you can choose how it will be indexed and
whether the contents will be searched. I added several uncommon extensions this way
and Vista does index them and find them.

If you program in R (.R files) (http://www.r-project.org/), Vista is
worthless for finding old code snippets. If you code in Delphi (.pas
files), Vista is worthless in finding old code snippets. There are many
files that Vista simply ignores. My guess is that Vista refuses to search
about 15-20% of files important to me.

Add your extensions as I described and re-index. If the folders that contain them
are marked for indexing, I predict that they will be found, just like the .lss
LotusScript files that I added.

Doug M. in NJ

 

[Celegans]

I tried it on Vista Business SP1 x64, and it did not find the files, only
the .TXT file. Are you sure you really changed the extensions?

Chupacabra: Thanks for that feedback.

PaulB: Extensions are a bit tricky in Windows since by default Microsoft
likes to hide them. I suggest this to make sure you really are seeing the
file extensions (I change this on every PC I touch since I work with such
diverse files, many from the Linux world):
- Control Panel (Classic View)
- Folder Options
- View Tabsheet
- Uncheck: "Hide extensions for known file types"

C.E.

 

[PaulB]

Yes I am sure.
--
Paul

I tried it on Vista Business SP1 x64, and it did not find the files, only
the .TXT file. Are you sure you really changed the extensions?

 

[PaulB]

Yes I always have that unchecked. I am not totally new at this. I only
offered my experience so that you could see that at least one system works as
it should. I don't know why you are having this problem.

 

[Chupacabra]

Chupacabra: Thanks for that feedback.

Just for giggles I renamed the .pas file to .vbs, and it found that one. I
also renamed the .r to .doc, and it failed to find that one! I was thinking
maybe it just searched registered file types, but not finding a .doc file
ruled that out. Unless it knew that it wasn't truly a Word document.

I have to agree with you, this is definitely a huge step backward from the
search in XP. I used the "find in files" feature a lot in XP, and it always
did what it said it would do.

 

[Chupacabra]

No filters are needed. Add an extension by simply typing it in the file
types tab of
the Advanced Options dialog and clicking the "Add extension" button. It
will then
appear in the list of extensions, where you can choose how it will be
indexed and
whether the contents will be searched. I added several uncommon
extensions this way
and Vista does index them and find them.

Thanks, this does seem to work, although if I tell the search to look in all
locations, indexed or not, I'd like for it to search ALL files regardless of
extension.

Strangely, a .TXT file I copied to .DOC would not show up in the search, but
once I opened it in Word and saved it as a true Word document (same .DOC
extension), the search found it.

 

[PaulB]

I took some screen shots.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3369/searchtho3.jpg

 

[Celegans]

Vista searches only the extensions that you specify in the Advanced dialog
for
Indexing Options. This makes the indexing task much more efficient by
ignoring
extensions that you don't care about. However, you have complete control
over this
list. If necessary, it's a snap to add new extensions.


No filters are needed. Add an extension by simply typing it in the file
types tab of
the Advanced Options dialog and clicking the "Add extension" button. It
will then
appear in the list of extensions, where you can choose how it will be
indexed and
whether the contents will be searched. I added several uncommon
extensions this way
and Vista does index them and find them.

This is an unworkable solution when working in a multiplatform environment.
The Sun Grid Engine, used to run hundreds of jobs on a Linux cluster, by
default names files to have extensions .1, .2, .3, .... I can have
thousands of new extensions to add.

I still have some files from PC Docs, an old PC Word document management
system, that named revisions of Word documents, .001, ..002, .003, .... So,
now I cannot search these Word documents until I manually add .001, .002,
..003, .... extensions. This is unworkable.

The fix has got to be by default to search all files, and not require anyone
to spend a lot of time figuring out that some extension is not being
searched.

The current Microsoft solution is unworkable for scientists and engineers.
Don't take away the search ability that was in Windows 95.

C.E.

 

[PaulB]

I took some screen shots.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3369/searchtho3.jpg

 

[Celegans]

Yes I always have that unchecked. I am not totally new at this. I only
offered my experience so that you could see that at least one system works
as
it should. I don't know why you are having this problem.

PaulB,

Thank your for your observations. I don't know why Vista search has never
worked for me. I wish I understood why it works for you.

I have used VMware virtual machines for Windows 95, 98, 2000 and XP, and
shown that Windows Explorer search works just find in all those versions of
Windows (XP, of course, needs a registry patch so its search always works).

I am tired of wasting time trying to get search to work in Vista. Finding
files one-by-one manually, or using other tools to find the files, then
having to use Windows Explorer to re-find the same file to work with the
file, is just nuts.

I have well over 500,000 files on my Vista machine, and many old files I've
saved for a reason I can no longer find with Vista. I want permission from
Microsoft to go back to Windows XP but they won't give that permission.

C.E.

 

[Celegans]

I took some screen shots.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3369/searchtho3.jpg

I believe you that search in Vista's is working for you.

But it's still not clear how I get search to work. We don't seem to have a
defined, repeatable procedure to get search to work in Vista?

As I copy new files to my machine, which are are not on the list of
searchable files because of their extension, I am supposed to figure out
that the extension is not on the "approved" list and then manually add it?
This is an insane solution that Microsoft is pushing on us: Figuring out
that a file is not being searched can be quite difficult. There should be
some sort of user interface option in Windows Explorer to show which files
are indexed/searchable and which are not so one could quickly learn that a
file cannot be found via search.

In many cases I do not believe indexing is the correct way to go. In recent
weeks, I submit multiple Sun Grid Engine cluster jobs to a linux cluster
that each return 10,000 files, which I occasionally need to search for
certain error messages. Transferring these files from Linux to Windows is
enough of a pain, but I then must index them before searching? This is a
terrible waste of resources to index these files that most of the time will
never need to be seached. But there still should be a way to do an ad hoc
search without indexing -- just like the search that has worked in Windows
since Windows 95.

C.E.

 

[retroman]

This is an unworkable solution when working in a multiplatform environment.
The Sun Grid Engine, used to run hundreds of jobs on a Linux cluster, by
default names files to have extensions .1, .2, .3, .... I can have
thousands of new extensions to add.

I still have some files from PC Docs, an old PC Word document management
system, that named revisions of Word documents, .001, ..002, .003, .... So,
now I cannot search these Word documents until I manually add .001, .002,
.003, .... extensions. This is unworkable.

Your requirements go far beyond the needs of a typical user of Windows search. I
suggest that you look on the Web for specialized search software that can do what you
propose.

The fix has got to be by default to search all files....

Well, I don't think that it is reasonable to expect Microsoft to slow down searching
and indexing for millions of users to accomodate the very few who have thousands of
unregistered file extensions. Surely yours is a very unusual situation.

Doug M. in NJ