Microsoft needs to change attitude to get XP in whole households..!

[pwr cybernautics]

Taken from an article at c|net News.Com

The company also has a "family pack" which allows the same copy of OS X
to be installed on up to five machines in the same residence.
http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-5096847.html?tag=cd_lede


Under this roof I too have 5 computers so why have I only upgraded one
of them to XP..? Windows XP HomeEdition at CompUSA, $199 x 5pc's =
$1,000..!!! TAKE A HIKE BILLY..!!!
Hey Billy, why do you think alternatives like Linux (unlimited installs)
and Mac (with a 5 machine family pack) are making headway in the homefront?
Duhhhhhh.....

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

And how many Linux and Mac machines are you running? Why are you not running
it on all your machines if you think they are a viable alternative? No one
is forcing you to run Windows, you do so by choice.

Can you provide some facts to support your claim that Mac and Linux are
making headway in the home-user market? Last I checked, Mac was regressing
in their percentage of homes owning one, and Linux for the home user was
still pretty much limited to those of us who are still sort of geeky (I
confess that I am one of these and I do run Linux on one machine).

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers aka "Nutcase" MS-MVP - Win9x
Windows isn't rocket science! That's my other hobby!

Associate Expert - WinXP - Expert Zone

 

[Rob Schneider]

Taken from an article at c|net News.Com

The company also has a "family pack" which allows the same copy of OS X
to be installed on up to five machines in the same residence.
http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-5096847.html?tag=cd_lede


Under this roof I too have 5 computers so why have I only upgraded one
of them to XP..? Windows XP HomeEdition at CompUSA, $199 x 5pc's =
$1,000..!!! TAKE A HIKE BILLY..!!!
Hey Billy, why do you think alternatives like Linux (unlimited installs)
and Mac (with a 5 machine family pack) are making headway in the homefront?
Duhhhhhh.....

You are free to use Linux in your household. We do. No point or purpuse
in yelling at Microsoft or their Chairman.

How Microsoft choses to license is really their business, and the good
news is that we customers can chose.

The future will be interesting.

 

[Christopher L]

As i do think this would be a good idea, you post has a few problems.

1) Microsoft Windows is run on 97.46% of PC's in the WORLD.
2) Linux/Unix has 0.26%
3) Apple has 1.43%

Of that 97.46%, 34.73% use Windows XP. 24.93% use Windows 98. There are
still a whole lot of people who can't upgrade to Windows XP b/c of hardware
req. Microsoft needs to do little to get people to buy XP, the main thing
they can do is suggest to people it's time to upgrade your PC's.

 

[Christopher L]

I got the percents, check out my post.

Stats in my post from
http://cyberatlas.internet.com/big_picture/applications/article/0,,1301_2205811,00.html
(forgot the put that)

 

[purplehaz]

XP home upgrade version is only $99. And oem versions are even cheaper. So
that would be $99 x 5 = $500. Since all your machines must already have
windows the upgrade version would be fine.
It always kills me when someone who can afford 5 computers complains about
the price to run them. I have been in computers for 15 years and I haven't
owned 5 computers total in 15 years. If you can spend $5000 on hardware you
can spend $500 on software. Its like the guy who owns a corvette, a viper, a
bmw, and a porsche, and then complains that oil changes and gas for four
cars is too expensive. While I agree that xp is expensive and you should be
able to put it on multiple computers in the same household, etc... your
personal argument here holds no water, imho. If I could afford 5 computers
at one time, I'd gladly pony up the 500 to make them run.

 

[pwr]

And how many Linux and Mac machines are you running? Why are you not running
it on all your machines if you think they are a viable alternative? No one
is forcing you to run Windows, you do so by choice.

Can you provide some facts to support your claim that Mac and Linux are
making headway in the home-user market? Last I checked, Mac was regressing
in their percentage of homes owning one, and Linux for the home user was
still pretty much limited to those of us who are still sort of geeky (I
confess that I am one of these and I do run Linux on one machine).

Ok, had to reboot (to linux) to reply The one and only machine in my
house that has XP on it also has SuSE Linux 9 installed on it. Why?
Because I too am sort of geeky (like Bill was at one time) and do see a
future viable alternative to MS. Again you ask, Why? Like I said in my
original post there's no way am I going to shell out a thousand bucks to
upgrade my Win2k boxes. From the look of things I'll be spending many
years using boxes loaded with win2k.
By the way you're wrong about your statement that no one is forcing me
to run Windows, when I bought my first pc around 8 years ago that was
the ONLY thing available at all the computer shops. Why? well we've seen
the lawsuits and heard the stories how MS put pressure on pc suppliers
to carry MS only or lose the ability to sell any MS products. Bill and
MS have also been doing their damn dist to eliminate any alternatives
(Netscape, Sun Java or the SCO lawsuits ring a bell?). At this point in
time I'm forced to run windows because not all of my favorite programs
are ported to Linux but with the improvements with WINE I am able to run
many things ported only for Microsoft to also run within Linux. I'm also
finding many alternatives to MS ported products which work very well for me.
So as economics slowly take their toll on MS the only alternative for
Bill will be to make Windows affordable to whole families if he wants to
stay in the picture when it comes to the future of home computing. There
NEEDS to be a home user's edition of XP which allows everyone living
under one roof to install it without having to break the family's piggy
bank.

just my 2cents worth.
paul

 

[anonymous]

!WOW! 5 computers. Gee...with that many computers how
many people in the family? Let's see you...spouse...3
children. How many cars/trucks? Guess: 3. And what
happens when you HAVE to buy tires for these cars/trucks?
Ask Goodyear guy to put only one(1) set (4 tires) on all
cars. Even at $50.00 per tire plus new stems, balance,
alignment, tax we're talking some $money$. Does Goodyear
have a "family pack" deal?

By the way we want to know what business you are in.
We'll stop by for some of your real good "family pack"
deals. We'll even give you all our business for these
deals.

 

[Christopher L]

Everytime someone asks this it goes on and on forever. Bottom line:
Microsoft makes the software, Microsoft sells it, you can either buy it or
not.

 

[Crusty \(-: Old B@stard :-\)]

You have 5 computers under one roof. Pretty big roof. Then, you have
allocated living space for 5 computers, along with desks/tables and chairs.
You pay the electric to run these 5 computers along with the internet
connection (I'm betting it's broadband).

Yet, you say, you can't pony up the necessary funds for 5 operating systems.

Why is it that can't I feel sorry for you?

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Ok, I'll take your two cents worth at face value, we're all entitled to our
own opnions. But a few things...

1) Yep, Windows is expensive, no doubt about it - ever try to develop an OS
that will run on virtually any x86 hardware out there? I know MS profits are
high, but that's the upside of being good at what you do. I don't hold that
against them, if I was a shareholder, I'd be mighty happy, as I expect any
company I buy stock in to perform well.

2) You've never been able to legally install one copy of Windows on multiple
machines, it's just that now there is a method in place to make it harder
for you to do so. To take the opposing view, you are stating that I should
only have to purchase and register one license plate for all the vehicles in
my driveway. The one should be enough for all of them.

3) No one is forcing you to buy a machine with Windows. Virtually anyone can
order kits to build their own and download and install a free .iso of their
choice of Linux versions.

4) Linux will never be a true home system until software developers can be
convinced that users will pay for programs to run on their free systems -
somehow I don't see either of those things ever happening.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers aka "Nutcase" MS-MVP - Win9x
Windows isn't rocket science! That's my other hobby!

Associate Expert - WinXP - Expert Zone

 

[pwr]

Ok, I'll take your two cents worth at face value, we're all entitled to our
own opnions. But a few things...

1) Yep, Windows is expensive, no doubt about it - ever try to develop an OS
that will run on virtually any x86 hardware out there? I know MS profits are
high, but that's the upside of being good at what you do. I don't hold that
against them, if I was a shareholder, I'd be mighty happy, as I expect any
company I buy stock in to perform well.

2) You've never been able to legally install one copy of Windows on multiple
machines, it's just that now there is a method in place to make it harder
for you to do so. To take the opposing view, you are stating that I should
only have to purchase and register one license plate for all the vehicles in
my driveway. The one should be enough for all of them.

I live in Switzerland and guess what, if buy a second car you're allowed
to use the one set of plates for BOTH cars. This can also be done on
motorcycles. Only drawback is you can only legally operate one vehicle
at a time (only one set of plates) but the advantage is you can save a
ton on insurance as you're obviously operating only 1 vehicle at a
time...! (was my biggest gripe with my insurance company in the states
over owning more than one vehicle while living alone)

3) No one is forcing you to buy a machine with Windows. Virtually anyone can
order kits to build their own and download and install a free .iso of their
choice of Linux versions.

Exactly how most of my computers came to be, bought them in parts and
assembled them myself.

4) Linux will never be a true home system until software developers can be
convinced that users will pay for programs to run on their free systems -
somehow I don't see either of those things ever happening.

It's already starting to happen. I just bought a license for both
installs of Opera in Windows AND Linux. Opera, for those who don't know,
is a browser worth paying for. ;-)


paul

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

I live in Switzerland and guess what, if buy a second car you're allowed

to use the one set of plates for BOTH cars. This can also be done on
motorcycles. Only drawback is you can only legally operate one vehicle
at a time (only one set of plates) but the advantage is you can save a
ton on insurance as you're obviously operating only 1 vehicle at a
time...! (was my biggest gripe with my insurance company in the states
over owning more than one vehicle while living alone)

Ah yes, but you contradict yourself a bit. If you think it is ok to use only
one pc in your home at a time, then I would agree with you. But I'll bet
that more than just 1 of your 5 machines is running simultaneously. Or does
your significant other and/or kids wait until you are done using your
machine and shut down before starting theirs? According to your arguement,
it is only legal to use one of these vehicles at a time to comply with the
law. Well, if that's the arguement, I can counter that you are allowed to
install your retail WinXP license on one pc, and uninstall it and install it
on another pc as many times as you choose, as long as you are only using it
on one machine at a time, not unlike your Swiss license plate which I assume
you must remove from the first car and install on the second one before you
may legally drive it.

Exactly how most of my computers came to be, bought them in parts and
assembled them myself.

It's already starting to happen. I just bought a license for both
installs of Opera in Windows AND Linux. Opera, for those who don't know,
is a browser worth paying for. ;-)

Well then you are the exception, not the rule here. Not that Opera isn't a
great browser (it's actually quite nice), but most people will still not be
willing to pay for something that they can get elsewhere for free. There
simply is not enough for Opera to offer over and above the standard IE
features that will justify the cost. Most users rarely go beyond the
standard settings, and have little use for advanced features. Again, I guess
that's the geekiness showing in us.

Nice talkin' with you, but I need to concentrate on user problems here, as
my time is very limited. So I'm afraid I'll have to bow out of trading
further commentary.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers aka "Nutcase" MS-MVP - Win9x
Windows isn't rocket science! That's my other hobby!

Associate Expert - WinXP - Expert Zone



<snip>

 

[Ian Merrithew]

2) You've never been able to legally install one copy of Windows on
multiple machines, it's just that now there is a method in place to
make it harder for you to do so.

Your wording is inaccurate: "legally" should be replaced with
"contractually". Unless you can point to a relevant section in American
copyright law that forbids multiple installations of a legally-purchased
copy of software by citizens for private, noncommercial use.

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

I'm not a lawyer, and will not debate legalities, the various
interpretations of the eula, or the meaning of a copyright. I employed a
commonly used term in a vernacular which would be understood by most
readers, and that was to get the point across, and I believe it did. You
understood well enough what it meant, did you not?

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers aka "Nutcase" MS-MVP - Win9x
Windows isn't rocket science! That's my other hobby!

Associate Expert - WinXP - Expert Zone

 

[Ian Merrithew]

You understood well enough what it meant, did you not?

Yes, and I also understand that in general conversation, "illegal" is
equated with "criminal". Thus I believe you're perpetuating an oft-
stated falsehood on this NG in stating that by making a second
installation, you're breaking a law which could lead to criminal
penalties. I disagree with that approach and favour using a more
accurate description for the situation, at least until such time as the
legality of a second installation is more clearly defined either by
statute or precedent.

Now if the OP were Canadian, you could use "illegal", since the Canadian
copyright act regarding software is worded differently and does spell out
that only a single installation is permitted. (I have no idea how
Canadian authorities are expected to enforce it, mind you.)

 

[David]

Your wording is inaccurate: "legally" should be replaced with
"contractually". Unless you can point to a relevant section in American
copyright law that forbids multiple installations of a legally- purchased
copy of software by citizens for private, noncommercial use.

Copyrights allow Microsoft to determine how and if a user can use their
product. Microsoft says that you can have only One copy of XP as
identified by the Product Key on one computer at one time. The EULA is
the vehicle in which they confer this on to you. If you violate the EULA,
You are cilotating the contract, which in turn is a violation of
Microsoft's Copyright and thus, Illegal by Copyright Law. Enumeration of
rights do not limit the rights to only those enumerated. In other words,
Just because the Articles on Copyright do not specifically mention multi-
installations, does not mean that Microsoft can't restrict multple
installations.

--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/

 

[David]

It always kills me when someone who can afford 5 computers complains
about the price to run them.

The only flaw here is a "Change of Circumstance".

I have three computers that I have owned for a number of years. Now,
I'm on Disability with a limited income and can't afford copies of XP and
it would be nice if I were allowed to install one copy on each machine.

In my case. I got lucky. I got a coupe free keys for being a Beta-
Tester for XP, and I have a relative that works for MS so I get a
discount through him.



--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/

 

[Ian Merrithew]

Microsoft says that you can have only One copy of XP as
identified by the Product Key on one computer at one time. The EULA is
the vehicle in which they confer this on to you.

If purchased in a retail environment, the software is subject to the
first-sale doctrine, and thus you have the right to fairly use your
legally purchased copyrighted works without getting permission from the
copyright owner. (Setting aside the issue of the legality of a third
party imposing terms on a private transaction between two other parties
-- the whole "this product is licensed, not sold" FUD.) Whether or not a
second installation for private, noncommercial use would be regarded as
"fair use" (and thus, beyond Microsoft's ability to control) is the open
question.

 

[Jim Macklin]

You can argue about which end of the egg to open all you
want, software is not sold, it is licensed and leased.


| |
| > Microsoft says that you can have only One copy of XP as
| > identified by the Product Key on one computer at one
time. The EULA is
| > the vehicle in which they confer this on to you.
|
| If purchased in a retail environment, the software is
subject to the
| first-sale doctrine, and thus you have the right to fairly
use your
| legally purchased copyrighted works without getting
permission from the
| copyright owner. (Setting aside the issue of the legality
of a third
| party imposing terms on a private transaction between two
other parties
| -- the whole "this product is licensed, not sold" FUD.)
Whether or not a
| second installation for private, noncommercial use would
be regarded as
| "fair use" (and thus, beyond Microsoft's ability to
control) is the open
| question.
|
| --
| Ian Merrithew - ADM Systems Engineering
| ian.merrithew "at" ieee.org
| Dartmouth High Gym Ball Hockey League page at
http://24.138.1.228:2655/