Microsoft Legal Issues

[Guest]

I install and re-install people's computers with Windows XP very frequently
and I have always wondered bout my legal liability when it comes to illegal
software. Obviously I am not allowed to intall my own burned copy of Windows
or any other software for that matter. What is the case if someone comes to
me with a burned CD, claiming it is a backup copy of their legal CD, and a
story such as "my original computer case was damaged in a fire so I had to
replace it and the authentication sticker got burned." This story may or may
not be true but am I legally bound to find out or can I just not install it
at all or is it not my concern. For that matter am I legally bound to refuse
to even work on a computer I believe has an illegal copy of Windows on it?

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I install and re-install people's computers with Windows XP very frequently
and I have always wondered bout my legal liability when it comes to illegal
software. Obviously I am not allowed to intall my own burned copy of Windows
or any other software for that matter. What is the case if someone comes to
me with a burned CD, claiming it is a backup copy of their legal CD, and a
story such as "my original computer case was damaged in a fire so I had to
replace it and the authentication sticker got burned." This story may or may
not be true but am I legally bound to find out or can I just not install it
at all or is it not my concern. For that matter am I legally bound to refuse
to even work on a computer I believe has an illegal copy of Windows on it?

You'd really have to ask this question of an attorney well-versed in
the laws of your locale.

I should think, however, that if you've any doubts about the legitimacy
of a particular license, you could ask your customer to sign some sort
of waiver stating that the license is legitimate. That should protect
you, as you can demonstrate having made a good faith effort to ensure
that you were not inadvertently aiding and abetting an attempt to
defraud the software's publisher or violate copyright laws.

Of course, there will be some instances when you'll have no doubt that
the software is pirated. Here, short of getting a true legal opinion,
you'll have to let your conscience be your guide. Personally, I'd
wouldn't do any sort of business with someone willing to pirate software
- if that individual's capable of stealing from the software
manufacturer, he/she's also capable of passing off a "rubber check" in
lieu of payment. Make sure you get cash in advance in such cases.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Vagabond Software]

I install and re-install people's computers with Windows XP very frequently
and I have always wondered bout my legal liability when it comes to illegal
software. Obviously I am not allowed to intall my own burned copy of Windows
or any other software for that matter. What is the case if someone comes to
me with a burned CD, claiming it is a backup copy of their legal CD, and a
story such as "my original computer case was damaged in a fire so I had to
replace it and the authentication sticker got burned." This story may or may
not be true but am I legally bound to find out or can I just not install it
at all or is it not my concern. For that matter am I legally bound to refuse
to even work on a computer I believe has an illegal copy of Windows on it?

As Bruce pointed out, a lawyer familiar in this area can answer this directly. However, there is one thing I *do* know...

If you are carrying around pirated copies of software and installing it for various friends and/or clients, a judge will assume malicious intent because the court is likely to consider you an "expert" that should and does know better regardless of any protests to the contrary. I know that is NOT what you are doing, but I just wanted to get that out there.

Also, I *think* it probably safe to take someone's word for it in the example that you gave. However, if that same person asks you to install XP on two or three machines from that one backup, you start assuming primary responsibility as the "expert" who should and does know better.

I know this doesn't really answer the question, but just play it out in your head... Those people you are helping could very well be pointing at you from the witness stand saying, "Him! He's the expert that set me up with all this. I don't know anything about computers or all this EULA mumbo jumbo!"

carl

 

[Venger]

Look at it this way...

If you were hired to mow someones lawn, using their equipment, and it turned
out the lawnmower had been stolen, would you be guilty of a crime?

You have not made a copy of the software, nor are you the user of it - you
simply came into incidental contact with it.

Not only that - but honestly, Microsoft is just not that worried about such
a scenario. In fact, over time, you will likely be in a position to get them
legal at some point, either when they order a new PC and get the OS bundled,
or at some other opportunity. As long as YOU aren't the one violating the
agreement by loading this on multiple machines, you are in a reputable
position.

It's not your job to police Microsoft's intellectual property, it's
Microsoft's... when they succesfully audit a business that has been borking
licenses, the fine goes against the owners and users - not the poor IT guy.
I'd be interested in reading case law in some instance of this...

Venger

 

[Guest]

Fortunately I am yet to come across anyone with the old
fire-got-my-authentication-sticker routine and so it's not much of a problem.
I just don't install burned software and tell whoever asked me to that it's
just too much of a risk. Interestingly enough however, a friend of mine
tried to get a direct answer out of Microsoft about this issue and said they
seemed to want to dodge the issue and didn't answer him. If anybody from
Microsoft wanted to pitch in I would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Keith]

I install and re-install people's computers with Windows XP very frequently
and I have always wondered bout my legal liability when it comes to illegal
software.

If the person is caught what will they say? 'Well we/I paid Luke the
money and he installed the software so we thought it was legal!' You
don't have to really worry about this with a home user, but you better
stay far away from any business that does that. They will point the
finger directly at you as the culprit and there are criminal and civil
laws that can put your ass in a ringer. Consult a lawyer for legal
advice.

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----
I install and re-install people's computers with Windows XP very frequently
and I have always wondered bout my legal liability when it comes to illegal
software. Obviously I am not allowed to intall my own burned copy of Windows
or any other software for that matter. What is the case if someone comes to
me with a burned CD, claiming it is a backup copy of their legal CD, and a
story such as "my original computer case was damaged in a fire so I had to
replace it and the authentication sticker got burned." This story may or may
not be true but am I legally bound to find out or can I just not install it
at all or is it not my concern. For that matter am I legally bound to refuse
to even work on a computer I believe has an illegal copy of Windows on it?
.
as a professional computer repair man you are expected

to follow the laws and there is legal precedence for
severely fining and making you pay for each illegal copy
you install on anyones machine,I never never install from
a burned copy ever you should make that your rule
original cd and cdkey only,otherwise you will one day
find your self penniless.And you will also be blackballed
from working in the it business with the criminal record.

 

[Alias]

|
| >-----Original Message-----
| >I install and re-install people's computers with Windows
| XP very frequently
| >and I have always wondered bout my legal liability when
| it comes to illegal
| >software. Obviously I am not allowed to intall my own
| burned copy of Windows
| >or any other software for that matter. What is the case
| if someone comes to
| >me with a burned CD, claiming it is a backup copy of
| their legal CD, and a
| >story such as "my original computer case was damaged in
| a fire so I had to
| >replace it and the authentication sticker got burned."
| This story may or may
| >not be true but am I legally bound to find out or can I
| just not install it
| >at all or is it not my concern. For that matter am I
| legally bound to refuse
| >to even work on a computer I believe has an illegal copy
| of Windows on it?
| >.
| >as a professional computer repair man you are expected
| to follow the laws and there is legal precedence for
| severely fining and making you pay for each illegal copy
| you install on anyones machine,I never never install from
| a burned copy ever you should make that your rule
| original cd and cdkey only,otherwise you will one day
| find your self penniless.And you will also be blackballed
| from working in the it business with the criminal record.

"Criminal record"? LOL! For a *civil* offence? Whatever you've been smoking,
I want some!
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature
of your news reader program to email me.

Utiliza Responder al Remitente
para mandarme un mail.

 

[Leythos]

I install and re-install people's computers with Windows XP very frequently
and I have always wondered bout my legal liability when it comes to illegal
software. Obviously I am not allowed to intall my own burned copy of Windows
or any other software for that matter. What is the case if someone comes to
me with a burned CD, claiming it is a backup copy of their legal CD, and a
story such as "my original computer case was damaged in a fire so I had to
replace it and the authentication sticker got burned." This story may or may
not be true but am I legally bound to find out or can I just not install it
at all or is it not my concern. For that matter am I legally bound to refuse
to even work on a computer I believe has an illegal copy of Windows on it?

We run into this a lot - and I tell people if it's not a legal copy I
won't install it - not just MS, but all software. If I can't see the
sticker or real CD I don't do it.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

as a professional computer repair man you are expected
to follow the laws and there is legal precedence for
severely fining and making you pay for each illegal copy
you install on anyones machine,

What is this "legal precedence?" Please cite the specific case # and
jurisdiction, as well a link to the court's decision.

And you will also be blackballed
from working in the it business with the criminal record.

"Blackballed" by whom, precisely? There is no IT organization with the
requisite ability, authority, and/or universal influence to do this.
It's not as if IT professionals require a government issued license to
practice their profession, as do doctor, lawyers, and even many general
contractors. Nor is a criminal record created by a civil court's decision.

While your attitude towards pirated software is commendable, you should
at least keep _your_ claims within the realm of possibility if you don't
want to completely discredit yourself, thereby invalidating any advice
you offer.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Greg R]

We run into this a lot - and I tell people if it's not a legal copy I

won't install it - not just MS, but all software. If I can't see the
sticker or real CD I don't do it.

--

What happen if they have the key but the cd broke and have a backup?
I would go ahead and install it. I already have a couple of cd that
won't install.


You could also get a key that is recertified and pass the cost on to
the customer for that fee for xp. This way that customer would be
legal and so would you.

Greg R

 

[D.Currie]

What happen if they have the key but the cd broke and have a backup?
I would go ahead and install it. I already have a couple of cd that
won't install.


You could also get a key that is recertified and pass the cost on to
the customer for that fee for xp. This way that customer would be
legal and so would you.

Greg R

What's a "recertified" key and where do you get one?

 

[Greg R]

What's a "recertified" key and where do you get one?

For example customer returning products to stores. They send it back
to the manufacture. The manufacture fixes and repairs it. Gets a
new oem key from Microsoft. Stamp on the box-Recertified

Also, repair shops can do the samething. Talk to your local
Microsoft license representative.

Greg R

 

[mrpsychology]

plus, windows' activation is pretty awesome right? You would have to have
the product key and then activate it right? Windows updates will right?
Not only that, but you rat a customer out for having a backup copy and they
may have lost their cd you can ruin your reputation. I know a lot of people
who own Dells' and they are disorganized and literally lose their windows
cds. And the people i know are a sm all amount. You may win a victory for
Microsoft on a small scale of one person, and like that other person said,
they mgiht buy a legal copy if otherwise, but you would hvae to keep that
news of your getting a customer in trouble secret. Even if customers know
you are legally correct for doing so, they may think twice about hiring you,
actually probably wont. Computers are private property that are in the
privacy of someone's home. You have to realize that in doing so you are
literally going into private property and doing quasi-culvert-KGBish
behavior. as one said you are not the one selling or doing anything or
promoting it, so you just do what you are hired and keep your liabilities
low.
The issue touches upon the RIAA, now how are they finding out about the
swappers? by the server? Ok, are they using legal means? Or are they
breaking in and looking then going to court? Well, if it werent for the
thrid party server would they find out? How would they? They would have to
break the law in order to do so, they would have to violate your home and
then spy and then do so. Especialy if you have a firewall which is a lock.
The police need a judge's signature before they can search it is kind of
odd how some corporations have rights the police dont. This touches upon
the core of American constitutional freedoms.
Back in the former Soviet Union people would rat other people out for
fear they would be put in Siberia. It is kind of weird how after the fall
of communism that our American corporations are utilizing it!
However, you have to respect Verizon and other companies who have
fought the sepenas by the RIAA. I dont illegally pirate music or anything,
but i surely will not support an agency who uses the courts to extort
customers. Especially when some of the peopel sued are not the ones who may
have downloaded music and then it goes well you should prosecute your son,
you shoudl prosecute your grandson so the RIAA can have their money, so you
are still wrong lol. One major reason i have not bought any music since and
will not buy any not only because i have enough of, but i dont feel right
supporting that behavior, because they are utilizing the courts and suing
because people buy it.
Then you have to wonder, how did they find out? Did they use illegal
means to find out the names on the server? So does that make it right?
Well, judges have freed serial killers because of wrongful searches. There
was a guy in Chicago a real sick killer, but thepolice caught him, blood and
everything, but the judge let him go, you know why? the police illegally
searched his truck and so therefore the fruit from the poisonous tree. Kind
of puts it in perspective, that the RIAA's policy is more important than the
police with killers!!! This turns the courts into punks for the corporates.
One has to analyze the judges and see what money they have and audit them
ferociously. Becaues the philisophical question is, if RIAA used illegal
means to find out the names, how can they benefit from it?
Well, you just dont want to ever get yourself known for something like
that, even if you are right!!! People will not want someone who has busted
someone on their private property on something like a windows working on
their property. They will think you are a spy. I would think that that
would literally break someone's business it would. So, therefore your
answer would be not to promote or to engage in any illegal activities. If
you dont feel right, lie to customer, tell them you dont have the time thta
you are packed and they can go to someone else. But reporting them is not a
good idea for you spiritually, it is not like it is porn or anything like
that.

 

[mrpsychology]

YOu will get blackballed either way. If you are the rat informant that
actually would be worse for business. Just tell them you are booked and
cant do it and leave it alone for someone else to do. Then you are not
involved either way and can keep your reputation as someone who does not
pose as worker on private property computer not windows and then report from
inside. You dont need to be a criminal to not like the idea. Just tell
them you are busy and cant do it.