micro atx worth it or not

R

roxbury

im trying to upgrade my brothers comp. he has a 2.8ghz p4 400fsb, and
a micro atx case and motherboard, but unfortunetly no agp slot for a
decent graphics card. Im trying to keep it rather cheap because my
little brother doesn't have all that much money. Im wondering how well
these micro atx motherboards perform. I want him to be able to play
some games with me like half-life 2 and joint operations. Im gonna
need a new mobo to support an agp video card, but will this be
enough??? do those little micro-motherboards perform all that well???
 
B

badgolferman

roxbury, 8/4/2005, 3:02:55 PM,
im trying to upgrade my brothers comp. he has a 2.8ghz p4 400fsb, and
a micro atx case and motherboard, but unfortunetly no agp slot for a
decent graphics card. Im trying to keep it rather cheap because my
little brother doesn't have all that much money. Im wondering how
well these micro atx motherboards perform. I want him to be able to
play some games with me like half-life 2 and joint operations. Im
gonna need a new mobo to support an agp video card, but will this be
enough??? do those little micro-motherboards perform all that well???

How cheap must it be? I bought a case with 450 Watt power supply for
$40 and a P4 motherboard for $35 from www.gearxs.com They work
perfectly fine and are ATX form factor.
 
R

roxbury

also i've heard that sometimes it can be difficult to disable the
onboard video when using a video card is this true???
 
P

philo

im trying to upgrade my brothers comp. he has a 2.8ghz p4 400fsb, and
a micro atx case and motherboard, but unfortunetly no agp slot for a
decent graphics card. Im trying to keep it rather cheap because my
little brother doesn't have all that much money. Im wondering how well
these micro atx motherboards perform. I want him to be able to play
some games with me like half-life 2 and joint operations. Im gonna
need a new mobo to support an agp video card, but will this be
enough??? do those little micro-motherboards perform all that well???


they work ok...
but i'd avoid them if possible due to them having very few slots
 
B

badgolferman

roxbury, 8/4/2005, 3:12:10 PM,
also i've heard that sometimes it can be difficult to disable the
onboard video when using a video card is this true???

No, usually when it detects a card in the AGP slot it disables on-board
video automatically. You can also adjust the setting in the BIOS.
 
K

kony

im trying to upgrade my brothers comp. he has a 2.8ghz p4 400fsb, and
a micro atx case and motherboard, but unfortunetly no agp slot for a
decent graphics card. Im trying to keep it rather cheap because my
little brother doesn't have all that much money. Im wondering how well
these micro atx motherboards perform. I want him to be able to play
some games with me like half-life 2 and joint operations. Im gonna
need a new mobo to support an agp video card, but will this be
enough??? do those little micro-motherboards perform all that well???


There is no performance difference between a mATX and a full
ATX board (when all else is equal).

The things to consider to be sure all else is equal:

Overclocking- IF you wanted to, there are few mATX that
support it well.

Onboard sound - almost always more of a performance loss
than a hardware accelerated gaming-oriented card, like those
from Creative Labs. However, "most" of the difference in
performance come from running surround sound modes. If the
game and speaker config is for only 2 channel (L&R
speakers), the performance difference isn't as significant
as the possibility that the onboard sound will be audibly
inferior- more of a concern for music with good speakers
than gaming with typical PC grade speakers.

Onboard network adapter- some are ok, others poor. However
since it isn't a server, we can probably ignore this.

Some newer mATX boards are larger than those of yesteryear.
Be sure to determine how wide the new board is and whether
the case can accomodate it. Particularly, whether a long
video card would fit or interfere with the front drive bays,
and whether the top bays (optical drives) can all be filled
or of only the top one has room for a drive becaue of the
board width. Your particular case makes that a variable we
can't forsee.

Also consider that some boxes that started out "lightly"
equipped may not have very beefy power supplies in them.
You might find the original PSU isn't up to running a
higher-end video card.

Considering the cost of a board and video card, it might be
a reasonable additional cost to get a full sized case, maybe
one nice enough that he'd want to reuse it the next time the
system is upgraded. At that point the old parts can
repopulate the original mATX case and he'll have a 2nd
working system for use or resale, whatever.
 
J

John

im trying to upgrade my brothers comp. he has a 2.8ghz p4 400fsb, and
a micro atx case and motherboard, but unfortunetly no agp slot for a
decent graphics card. Im trying to keep it rather cheap because my
little brother doesn't have all that much money. Im wondering how well
these micro atx motherboards perform. I want him to be able to play
some games with me like half-life 2 and joint operations. Im gonna
need a new mobo to support an agp video card, but will this be
enough??? do those little micro-motherboards perform all that well???


On one hand Id prefer not to have a Microatx since you can get full
sized boards generally for the same price if you look around. If you
want integrated graphics then usually the all in one budget boards are
almost always microATX though I vaguely remember seeing one or two
that werent.

However like you say , though I whine all the time about having only 3
slots which is the usual amount for micro boards since a lot is built
in you really dont need that much. It really depends on whether you
want built in graphics to get the price as low as possible and whether
you need more than 3 slots.

The ironic thing is the full sized 939 boards with PCI ex slots
generally only have 3 PCI slots so Im in the same boat right now.
You can live with it but if you want to add more cards later then you
might have problems.

Also if your case is too small for a full size board to fit than it
generally means you have a really crappy proprietary case. Since you
can buy cases so cheaply now Id get a new case anyway. And that
generally also means you have a crappy underpowered PS usually but Im
generalizing here. A while ago there were tons of super cheapo deals
on cases $10-15. However at Compusa they do have a small Antec looking
mini/mid-case that fits full size boards for $25. A little while ago
they had the beige one for $20 and the black one for $25 I think but
they might have raised the price for the beige now.

You can find some really cheap MB deals nowadays and refurbs can lower
the price a bit more.

Graphics cards they have the 9600 128 bit (people post) for $49 at
Geek.com or Geeks.com whatever it is. I got one when it was on sale
but havent installed it yet. Im trying to get another for a neighbors
kids. People keep posting they have been playing HALF LIFE2 and DOOM3
though at lower res settings with the card and even the 64 bit 9600.

Frankly almost all the reviews last year on the 9600 64 bit often
called the SE bashed it mercilessly as a wimpy card , an ATI version
of the 5200 but maybe they improved it cause there are posts at Newegg
and other sites where people swear they can play these games with SOME
9600 64 bits. Are some better than others ? Or are they all supposedly
OK for playing at low res? I dont know. Since the price difference
between the two the 64 bit and 128 bit is sometimes 10 bucks Id rather
get the 128 bit.

If you arent that hard up get the 6600 GT to be sure youll have OK
play with even more demanding games. Ive read some reviews of BF2
where they say it really takes a lot power but I havent played it
myself so I cant say if its true or not.



Slots wise - for instance:

1) Better game sound card like Audigy.
2) A music recording card like Maudio etc
3) TV tuner card for watching and recording shows
4) Modem for dial up -- even with a cable modem this is
good for free FAXING
5) Firewire card if your PC doesnt have one
6) If you are USB hog you might add another USB card
or if it doesnt have USB 2.0 which I doubt nowadays
7) WIreless Card

Obviously you can get an external modem but these cost way more.
You could also get an external TV tuner thing but many of those dont
work as well as the internal one and can in general cost more.
You can get USB wireless devices like the thumb wireless looking plug
in but those dont seem to be as good as the card with antenna.
There are work arounds but they can cost a lot more as you can see,
 
C

Cuzman

roxbury wrote:
" he has a 2.8ghz p4 400fsb, and a micro atx case and motherboard, but
unfortunetly no agp slot for a decent graphics card. "

2.8GHz 400FSB?
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL7EY

If it doesn't have an AGP slot, it's most likely a Dell (or similar
OEM). You may well find that the PSU is wired into the motherboard,
meaning you'll need to replace both of those in addition to buying a
graphics card.

Also, it may well have an OEM installation of Windows XP, which means
you might be unable to reload any restoration disc onto a new motherboard.


" Im trying to keep it rather cheap because my little brother doesn't
have all that much money. "

Buying a new motherboard, PSU, graphics card and copy of Windows XP
isn't a *cheap* option.


" Im wondering how well these micro atx motherboards perform. "

It's neither here nor there. With the same processor, RAM and graphics
card, a micro-atx motherboard can perform just the same as an ATX board
with a similar spec.


" I want him to be able to play some games with me like half-life 2 and
joint operations. "

A sensible option may well be to get the best PCI card available. This
128-bit FX5500 128MB should lengthen the PC's life for under $100:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814133134

The FX5500 will be able to play Half Life 2, but I'm sure it will
struggle at anything over 1024x768. Forget the fact that it's PCI, as
it will perform just as well as this AGP FX5500:
http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-1467-x-x-x&body_pagenum=2

Joint Operations is a different matter, and you need a hell of a card to
run it at high frame rates. You'll see that, at 1024x768, an AGP FX5600
can only manage 12 frames per second:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-10.html

You didn't state the amount of RAM the system has. If he has any money
left over, then perhaps adding some more will help with gaming
performance as well.
 

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