MBR or firmware problem?

[Just Me]

A couple of week ago I was working away on my PC when my HD started clicking
and the system froze. I tried to reboot but it would no longer boot from
the disk and continued to make that ticking noise from the start. I assumed
this was a hardware failure but just to be sure I took it to a lab who did
free estimates. They say that it is not a hardware problem.

I got my system back up using a spare HD I had around, and I tried to boot
up with the problem drive on the system as a slave. When it did the
autodect, it did find the HD, but usually it comes back with 'MAXTOR'
followed by the model number (or whatever) but now it comes back with
'MAXTOR RIGEL' then some other stuff.

So, is the the result of a problem with the MBR, or with the firmware. I
think it's a given that it's a virus, and if anyone can give me info on that
virus (like how to recover) it would really help. I've got 40gigs of data
on there that I need to recover.

Paul
PS: post replies, don't email.

 

[Rod Speed]

A couple of week ago I was working away on my PC when my
HD started clicking and the system froze. I tried to reboot but it
would no longer boot from the disk and continued to make that
ticking noise from the start. I assumed this was a hardware
failure but just to be sure I took it to a lab who did free
estimates. They say that it is not a hardware problem.

They're a pack of incompetant morons.

I got my system back up using a spare HD I had around,
and I tried to boot up with the problem drive on the system
as a slave. When it did the autodect, it did find the HD,
but usually it comes back with 'MAXTOR' followed by
the model number (or whatever) but now it comes back
with 'MAXTOR RIGEL' then some other stuff.

Thats an absolutely classic failure mode with maxtor drives.
The drive model detail is stored on the platters and when
the platters cant be read at drive init time, it defaults to
the more generic model details from the drive firmware.

The clicking is the drive recalibrating, attempting to read
the model specific data off the platters and failing to do that.

So, is the the result of a problem with the MBR,
Nope.

or with the firmware.

Nope. With getting the model specific details off the platters.

Likely the problem with getting that data will also
prevent the drive from reading your data too.

I think it's a given that it's a virus,

Nope, its a hardware failure with the drive.

and if anyone can give me info on that virus
(like how to recover) it would really help.

It aint a virus.

I've got 40gigs of data on there that I need to recover.

It may be possible to swap the logic card from an identical
model maxtor if the problem with reading the data from the
platters is with the head interface circuitry. It can also be
due to a failure of the circuitry inside the sealed enclosure
too and in that case only pro recovery will get your data
back, at a price you'd better be sitting down when you hear.

 

[Just Me]

Could it not be the case that the platter area where the drive model details
are stored is corrupted? Also, this began hours after I booted up, so why
would it be trying to execute a drive init routine then? I set it up so
that power management doesn't shut down the drive when it is inactive.

Paul

 

[Rod Speed]

Could it not be the case that the platter area where
the drive model details are stored is corrupted?

Nope, you dont get the recalibration/clicking if the data is
corrupted, only if the drive cant read that data off the platter.

Also, this began hours after I booted up,

The drive certainly failed then...

so why would it be trying to execute a drive init routine then?

It didnt. It did that when you tried
to reboot when the drive had failed.

I set it up so that power management doesn't
shut down the drive when it is inactive.

Sure.

The drive has just failed and cant read that section
of the platter anymore. It likely cant read any of the
platters anymore and that particular model name
detail is just what it trys to read first on a drive init.

 

[Svend Olaf Mikkelsen]

A couple of week ago I was working away on my PC when my HD started clicking
and the system froze. I tried to reboot but it would no longer boot from
the disk and continued to make that ticking noise from the start. I assumed
this was a hardware failure but just to be sure I took it to a lab who did
free estimates. They say that it is not a hardware problem.

I got my system back up using a spare HD I had around, and I tried to boot
up with the problem drive on the system as a slave. When it did the
autodect, it did find the HD, but usually it comes back with 'MAXTOR'
followed by the model number (or whatever) but now it comes back with
'MAXTOR RIGEL' then some other stuff.

So, is the the result of a problem with the MBR, or with the firmware. I
think it's a given that it's a virus, and if anyone can give me info on that
virus (like how to recover) it would really help. I've got 40gigs of data
on there that I need to recover.

Paul
PS: post replies, don't email.

It would be interesting to see the output from my Identify program.

 

[Just Me]

Sigh. OK.

I see a number of the exact same drive as mine on ebay. Do you know if the
external circuitboard is made for easy removal? (ie: could I swap the
boards myself without soldering or special tools, I have the right
screwdriver) and how likely is it that doing that would restore access?

Paul

 

[Just Me]

I'll let you know if I give it a try. Can you tell me more about what it
does?

Paul

 

[Rod Speed]

Sigh. OK.

I see a number of the exact same drive as mine on ebay.
Do you know if the external circuitboard is made for easy
removal? (ie: could I swap the boards myself without
soldering or special tools, I have the right screwdriver)

Yes, its normally very simple. There's usually connectors that
arent visible under the logic card and once the screws that
hold the logic card to the drive are removed, the logic card
just pulls off vertically, away from the body of the drive.

Some of the Quantums, and some of the Maxtors are
actually Quantum drives because Maxtor bought Quantum
and changed their model number to Maxtor numbers, have
a visible flexible ribbon cable to the head subsystem. That
isnt immediately obvious how to release the flexible ribbon
cable from the connector. There are a pair of tiny little
retaining clips, one on either side of the ribbon. You
release them by putting your thumbnail under them
one at a time and moving the clip in the direction of
the length of the ribbon. Once they are released, the
ribbon comes out of the connector very easily. Its
inserted in reverse, put the ribbon in the connector
and then click the retaining clips in to hold it in place.
Very easy when you know how.

and how likely is it that doing that would restore access?

Quite likely with a drive of that size. Not so likely with
much bigger drives because they often have specific
data in nvram on the logic card specific to the drive,
particularly the list of bad sectors and quite a few
modern drives refuse to allow an init after a logic
card swap, even between two working drives.

 

[Svend Olaf Mikkelsen]

I'll let you know if I give it a try. Can you tell me more about what it
does?

Paul

It sends an Identify Device command to the disk, and prints the
information. The command to write the output for primary master to the
file id.txt would be:

identify pm id.txt

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

[snip]


It would be interesting to see the output from my Identify program.

So would I. I cant get it to work for my CD-Rom drive though.
It just doesn't see it (disk not found).

And as usual the documentation is of no use.

 

[Leo]

So would I. I cant get it to work for my CD-Rom drive though.
It just doesn't see it (disk not found).

And should be. ATAPI devices have other identification command (A1h,
Identify Packet Device).

Leonid

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

And should be.

Oh, why?

ATAPI devices have other identification command (A1h, Identify Packet Device).

So? It can see my SCSI drive nevertheless (although it doesn't actually know that).
If it doesn't respond to "Identify Device" it should at least show that there
is something else attached (most likely a removable disk device) or that it isn't a
fixed diskdrive (no fixed disk found).
And why should't this program be usable for cartridge drives like ZIP, Peerless etc?

 

[Leo]

Oh, why?

It is a question to the author of the program. If he has not made
identification specially for ATAPI devices, they will not be found
because have different identify command.

So? It can see my SCSI drive nevertheless (although it doesn't actually know that).
If it doesn't respond to "Identify Device" it should at least show that there
is something else attached (most likely a removable disk device) or that it isn't a
fixed diskdrive (no fixed disk found).
And why should't this program be usable for cartridge drives like ZIP, Peerless etc?

Probably, it is not a Packet devices. I usually defined on the
following algorithm (for ATA/ATAPI drives only, not for SCSI): if
status register contains all "1" or (status register AND 50h) <> 50h -
no drive attached. If drive return error on 10h command (recalibrate)
- it is non-ATA device (probably CD-ROM). Then it is necessary to try
a command A1h.

Leonid

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

It is a question to the author of the program. If he has not made
identification specially for ATAPI devices, they will not be found
because have different identify command.

That is what happens, it doesn't answer my question (that it 'should be').

Probably, it is not a Packet devices. I usually defined on the
following algorithm (for ATA/ATAPI drives only, not for SCSI): if
status register contains all "1" or (status register AND 50h) <> 50h -
no drive attached. If drive return error on 10h command (recalibrate)

- it is non-ATA device (probably CD-ROM).

CDRoms are also ATA devices.
That they use the packet protocol doesn't make them 'not ATA'.

Then it is necessary to try a command A1h.

Right. If it wants to live up to it's name, that is what it should do.
And not get confused with devices on other controllers (SCSI).

 

[Svend Olaf Mikkelsen]

So would I. I cant get it to work for my CD-Rom drive though.
It just doesn't see it (disk not found).

And as usual the documentation is of no use.

Is that a suggestion or a complaint?

It was hard enough to write the Identify Device interpretation. Since
nobody has any use for that, I am not certain Identify Packet Device
is next assignment. But yes, it could have been mentioned.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Is that a suggestion or a complaint?

How about both? ;-)

It was hard enough to write the Identify Device interpretation.

Other programs are available s.a. ctatbus.
So why not go the last mile and make it count or write it off.

Since nobody has any use for it,

I guess I don't count then.

I am not certain Identify Packet Device is next assignment.

But yes, it could have been mentioned.

That and what the function of <disknumber> is.

 

[Svend Olaf Mikkelsen]

I guess I don't count then.

You count. I will consider it and at least some enhancements.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

You count. I will consider it and at least some enhancements.

Okidoki.

Btw, a version that works under dos AND windows would be
quite helpful for those with "my drive is sooo slow, what is
going on" questions, in determining what might be the problem.
(Just daydreaming ;-))