Many problems with a P5GD2-X board

[Ian]

Excuse my bad english...

I have a lot of problems with a P5GD2-X motherboard

Here's the configuration of my computer
Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Case with clear side panel
2 X 120mm fan (one front and one rear)
1 X 90mm fam (in the side panel)
400W Thermaltake powersupply that come with the case
P4 640 (3.2Ghz) with stock heatsink and fan
P5GD2-X Motherboard
WD Raptor 10k HD
1 Gb RAM
ATI X800GT
DVD-RW
Floppy with 7 in 1 card reader
No Q-Fan activated
I use Asus Probe 2 to read temperature

The room temp. is around 24C-27C

Before you ask me, I tried reseat the processor and it help me drop cpu
temp 4C-5C

First Problem: The processor, when idle, has a temperature of 38C which
is ok for me. But under 100% load (I use BOINC to stress to processor),
it reach 60C-63C in about 7-10 min which is too high (am I ok??). It
doesn't go over that temperature. My other processor (a northwood 3.2)
in the same case never went up beyond 48C !! I noticed that the fan
accelerate only when the processor reach 61C. It run at 1500Rpm until
the processor reach 61C and after that it speed up to 1900Rpm -
2000Rpm. Why the fan doesn't accelerate sooner ??? BTW, the board
temperature is between 38C-41C after 1h30 of stress test

The Second problem is like the first one but with higher temparature.
When I update the BIOS to version 202 (from version 105) all the
temperature goes up 7C-8C. So the processor temp under 100% load is
67C-69C. The board after 1h30 of stress test reach 48C !!! The thing I
don't understand is that just before I flashed the BIOS, I checked the
board temp: 40C. I updated BIOS, enter windows and without any stress
test, the board temp was now 48C !!! How is it possible juste by
updating the BIOS ???

Third problem: I had read some post about this problem, but I did not
find any solution. 1 time out of 3, the system don't boot. All seems to
be ok, I hear fans, hd and dvd, but the screen never power up. I just
do CTRL+ALT+DEL and after that everything boot normaly. Another thing,
3 times since I have the computer I had error message during boot
process: "Overclocking failed, Press F1 to run setup Press F2 to load
default setting" When I have this message, I enter in BIOS, Save
setting (without any changes) and after that it boot normaly. BTW, I
didn't try any overclocking.

Fourth problem: It's not really a problem, but a question. Is it normal
that the heatsink on the northbridge chipset is so hot that I cannot
touch it more that 1.5 second before I get burn ??? I suppose that it
is not normal, but I don't have any reference.

I tought my problems was resolve when I found why all my southbridge
burn on my P4P800-E Deluxe (see post
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus/msg/772e04cbff7ba568?hl=en&
) but it seems that it is not the case... If you can help me on any of
this problem, your help will be really really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Ian

 

[Ian]

I post by error, two times the same question. Please use my other poste to
answer my.

Thanks

 

[Paul]

Excuse my bad english...

I have a lot of problems with a P5GD2-X motherboard

Here's the configuration of my computer
Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Case with clear side panel
2 X 120mm fan (one front and one rear)
1 X 90mm fam (in the side panel)
400W Thermaltake powersupply that come with the case
P4 640 (3.2Ghz) with stock heatsink and fan
P5GD2-X Motherboard
WD Raptor 10k HD
1 Gb RAM
ATI X800GT
DVD-RW
Floppy with 7 in 1 card reader
No Q-Fan activated
I use Asus Probe 2 to read temperature

The room temp. is around 24C-27C

OK. First things first. I looked at a couple of pictures
of Thermaltake products, and there doesn't seem to be
enough vent holes on the front of the case. (Post a URL
showing a picture of your case, if you think I'm looking
at the wrong case.) You mention there are two 120mm fans,
but I cannot see enough vent area to properly feed even
one 120mm fan. The fans may spin, the fans may roar, but
the CFMs just won't be there, as near as I can tell. Without
vent holes, you might as well have 60mm fans on the front and
rear. Find a picture of the product, that shows what is
really going on.

On my Sonata, I had the same problem, and only a single
120mm fan. I removed a plastic grill piece from the front
of the case, removed the "filter" next to it, and got a
bit more than 5C case air temp drop. Leave the door open
on the front of the computer, and see how much of a difference
that makes.

Your number one concern, should be the temperature of the
hard drive. Make sure it is getting some air. With
balanced inlet and exhaust air, even if the disk drive slot
cover had holes in it, there still might not be good air
flow near the disk. I got a digital thermometer for $30
or so, that I can stick to the top of the drive casing, to
see how hot it is getting.

Before you ask me, I tried reseat the processor and it help me drop cpu
temp 4C-5C

First Problem: The processor, when idle, has a temperature of 38C which
is ok for me. But under 100% load (I use BOINC to stress to processor),
it reach 60C-63C in about 7-10 min which is too high (am I ok??). It
doesn't go over that temperature. My other processor (a northwood 3.2)
in the same case never went up beyond 48C !! I noticed that the fan
accelerate only when the processor reach 61C. It run at 1500Rpm until
the processor reach 61C and after that it speed up to 1900Rpm -
2000Rpm. Why the fan doesn't accelerate sooner ??? BTW, the board
temperature is between 38C-41C after 1h30 of stress test

The Second problem is like the first one but with higher temparature.
When I update the BIOS to version 202 (from version 105) all the
temperature goes up 7C-8C. So the processor temp under 100% load is
67C-69C. The board after 1h30 of stress test reach 48C !!! The thing I
don't understand is that just before I flashed the BIOS, I checked the
board temp: 40C. I updated BIOS, enter windows and without any stress
test, the board temp was now 48C !!! How is it possible juste by
updating the BIOS ???

Summary: Tambient = 24C, Tcase = 40C, Tcpu = 69C

40C-24C = 16C. Ideal case delta_T is 7C, perhaps 10C at the outside.
Case needs more airflow, and more vent holes might help. I don't
think it needs more fans. If you remove the side on the case, and
the fan speed changes radically, that is "vacuum cleaner effect" you
are hearing, and the fans are starved for vent space.

For the CPU, one problem with the Intel heatsink assembly, is
getting good contact pressure with those rotating clips. Personally,
I would spend $50 for each system with a hot processor like this,
and get a decent heat sink. I prefer a heatsink with screws rather
than clips, as it is easier to fit. In any case, you want something
where you can be sure that the heatsink is properly seated on the
processor - whatever that takes. Now, many people will achieve a
good result with the Intel heatsink and fan, so this is a
"personal taste" thing.

At 69C, you are right at the CPU throttle temperature, so it could
be that the processor is not giving you 100% computing. The processor
can stop processing for short intervals, as a means to control the
temperature, and 69C is where that happens. (I think there is a
program called Throttlewatch that can tell you whether throttle
is occurring or not...)

The Intel heatsink/fan assembly senses the "case air" temperature
as the air moves through the fan. If you examine a processor
datasheet, the fan speed ramps up from 30C to 38C, and above
38C case air temp, the fan should run at max RPMs. It doesn't
sound like that is happening.

Motherboards come with Q-fan. If you enable that, it reduces the
voltage to the fan. That will prevent the fan from reaching max
RPMs. Disable Q-fan and see if that helps (your symptoms sound
for all the world, like Q-fan is enabled). Or, move the CPU fan
connector to another header, and see if it runs faster. You may
need to connect a small "dummy" fan with RPM output, to the CPU
fan header while doing this, so the BIOS will not be detecting
a "fan failure" on the CPU fan header. And yes, an Intel four pin
connector _can_ plug into a three pin header - one pin hangs over,
and that is the Intel PWM signal which is not used.

A previous poster has mentioned he got a significant temperature
reduction on the processor, by using a case that leaves more room
between the PSU casing and the Intel heatsink. If the PSU is close
to the fan, the hot air tends to stay around the processor. In
other words, small computer cases can make thermals worse.

My only concern with a 69C processor temperature, is not frying
the processor (as the processor is defending itself as we speak),
but the loss of performance that results. Your primary concern
should be proper cooling of the hard drive, reduction of case
temp, so the air feeding the PSU is cooler. By the time you've
met those objectives, the rest of the components are probably
getting the thermal environment they need. The PSU and
hard drive are the most likely components to fail in the computer,
and heat helps neither of them.

Third problem: I had read some post about this problem, but I did not
find any solution. 1 time out of 3, the system don't boot. All seems to
be ok, I hear fans, hd and dvd, but the screen never power up. I just
do CTRL+ALT+DEL and after that everything boot normaly. Another thing,
3 times since I have the computer I had error message during boot
process: "Overclocking failed, Press F1 to run setup Press F2 to load
default setting" When I have this message, I enter in BIOS, Save
setting (without any changes) and after that it boot normaly. BTW, I
didn't try any overclocking.

You are going to need to do more debugging, by swapping components
and the like, for the "black screen" problem. Like, check the PSU
voltages in the BIOS, and see if they are within 5% of nominal.
Try a lower power video card, and see if that helps. If you have
a spare PSU, swap that in and see if it starts more reliably.

The "Overclocking failed", can be a failure detected on a previous
boot. It may not be the current session that has failed. Get a copy
of CPUZ and see what clock settings and memory timings are being used.
Sometimes, the BIOS has not set things up properly, and it doesn't
hurt to verify what was done. Personally, I like to enter the
BIOS and set everything to "Manual", just so I can see what is
going on.

Fourth problem: It's not really a problem, but a question. Is it normal
that the heatsink on the northbridge chipset is so hot that I cannot
touch it more that 1.5 second before I get burn ??? I suppose that it
is not normal, but I don't have any reference.

I tought my problems was resolve when I found why all my southbridge
burn on my P4P800-E Deluxe (see post
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus/msg/772e04cbff7ba568?hl=en&
) but it seems that it is not the case... If you can help me on any of
this problem, your help will be really really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Ian

The Southbridge has a TDP of 3.8W. Make sure there is a little
airflow over the heatsink. When measuring the temperature, only
touch a fingertip to the heatsink, as sticking your whole hand
over the heatsink functions as an insulator and will make the
heatsink get hotter. Now, chances are, you aren't using all the
I/O that the Southbridge has to offer, so the Southbridge
should probably not be getting that hot.

Get a cheap digital thermometer and check the temp that way.

AFAIK, there is no record of the ICH6 having the latchup problem.
That is for ICH4 and ICH5. And, in latchup, the heat is a byproduct
of the failure - heat doesn't cause the failure. The presumption
is, that the "latchup" failure is caused by electrostatic discharge
into the USB D+/D- signals.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Ian]

Wow, thanks a lot Paul for all this informations, This is really
appreciated.

Since you posted a reply in this post we will use it as it will be
simple. Sorry again for the double post :-( My error

Tonight, I concentrated my effort on the heat problem and I have done
some test that you suggest me to do.

For pictures of my case go here
http://www.thermaltake.com/xaserCase/tsunami/bwa/bwa.htm It's true that
there's not a lot of vent holes on the front of my case, but I have
done a lot of tests with and without the side panel with the exact same
temp result. So I don't think that the problem came from the too little
vent hole in the case, but that would have been possible.

I tested the temp in the case with a little thermometer. All the
temperature tests were made in this manner and for 30 min
BOINC (to always use 100% of CPU)
ATI Ruby demo in loop (to produce heat from video card)
without the side panel and its 90 mm fan
room temp between 26C and 27C
CPU-Z running
ThrottleWatch running
Asus Probe running
Q-Fan disable in BIOS (what was done when I received the computer)
BIOS version 301 (Beta... But at this point !)

So the result are:
At the base of the case: 28.5C
Just above HDD: 30C
At the top of the case between PowerSupply and DVD Drive: 40C

All these temperature seems pretty good to me. The top of the case is
maybe a little too hot, but it's not where the CPU and other components
take air.

All the time the tests run (except the first few minutes), the cpu temp
was between 69C-71C. And according to ThrottleWatch it never slow down
and run at a steady 3212Mhz. So it seems that the CPU did not hit its
throttle temperature.

Another test I have done was turn on computer after it was turn off for
two hours, and quickly go into the BIOS to check the temp of board and
CPU. The full process take me roughly 12sec and the temp was already
35C for the board and 40C for the CPU. Is it possible that the board
raise its temp of 11C in 12sec with the fresh air that was in the case
at this moment ???? The room temp, at this time was 24C

It's just an assumption, but with all the informations I have:
- The CPU fan speed up too late
- The steady 3212Mhz frequency even at 71C
- The 11C board temp above ambient air in only 12 sec)
I think that the sensor reading are not correct. Is it possible ???
Another thing that let me think that this problem come from an
incorrect reading from the sensor is that this exact same case run
pretty well and pretty cool (the temperature of the board never
exceeded 35C in summer) for about 4 month with a P4P800-E Deluxe board
and a Northwood 3.2Ghz CPU. But now, I can reach board temp of 50C !!!!

Thanks again Paul for all the informations. I'll await your answer
impatiently

Tomorrow I'll do some test for the boot (black screen) problem.

Bye

 

[Paul]

Wow, thanks a lot Paul for all this informations, This is really
appreciated.

Since you posted a reply in this post we will use it as it will be
simple. Sorry again for the double post :-( My error

Tonight, I concentrated my effort on the heat problem and I have done
some test that you suggest me to do.

For pictures of my case go here
http://www.thermaltake.com/xaserCase/tsunami/bwa/bwa.htm It's true that
there's not a lot of vent holes on the front of my case, but I have
done a lot of tests with and without the side panel with the exact same
temp result. So I don't think that the problem came from the too little
vent hole in the case, but that would have been possible.

I tested the temp in the case with a little thermometer. All the
temperature tests were made in this manner and for 30 min
BOINC (to always use 100% of CPU)
ATI Ruby demo in loop (to produce heat from video card)
without the side panel and its 90 mm fan
room temp between 26C and 27C
CPU-Z running
ThrottleWatch running
Asus Probe running
Q-Fan disable in BIOS (what was done when I received the computer)
BIOS version 301 (Beta... But at this point !)

So the result are:
At the base of the case: 28.5C
Just above HDD: 30C
At the top of the case between PowerSupply and DVD Drive: 40C

All these temperature seems pretty good to me. The top of the case is
maybe a little too hot, but it's not where the CPU and other components
take air.

All the time the tests run (except the first few minutes), the cpu temp
was between 69C-71C. And according to ThrottleWatch it never slow down
and run at a steady 3212Mhz. So it seems that the CPU did not hit its
throttle temperature.

Another test I have done was turn on computer after it was turn off for
two hours, and quickly go into the BIOS to check the temp of board and
CPU. The full process take me roughly 12sec and the temp was already
35C for the board and 40C for the CPU. Is it possible that the board
raise its temp of 11C in 12sec with the fresh air that was in the case
at this moment ???? The room temp, at this time was 24C

It's just an assumption, but with all the informations I have:
- The CPU fan speed up too late
- The steady 3212Mhz frequency even at 71C
- The 11C board temp above ambient air in only 12 sec)
I think that the sensor reading are not correct. Is it possible ???
Another thing that let me think that this problem come from an
incorrect reading from the sensor is that this exact same case run
pretty well and pretty cool (the temperature of the board never
exceeded 35C in summer) for about 4 month with a P4P800-E Deluxe board
and a Northwood 3.2Ghz CPU. But now, I can reach board temp of 50C !!!!

Thanks again Paul for all the informations. I'll await your answer
impatiently

Tomorrow I'll do some test for the boot (black screen) problem.

Bye

If Throttlewatch says the CPU is not throttling, it sounds like
your theory could be correct. The BIOS temperature readings could
be suspect. But Asus Probe should be doing the temperature
calculation for itself ? I don't think Asus Probe calls the BIOS
to get the temperature, but I suppose in the software world,
anything is possible.

To start with, thermistors are non-linear devices. Any program
has to convert the reading back into a temperature.
What Asus likes to do, is then add a constant offset, to
correct for the position of the sensor, in an attempt to
give what they feel is a more realistic value. That means
there are several sources of error possible in this readout
system.

Your board is probably too new, to expect Motherboard Monitor
MBM5 to work as a monitoring program. I don't have any really
good pictures of your motherboard, but it does look like there
is a Winbond Super I/O chip, and most of those have existed for
a while. So you could give that a try.

Check to see if your motherboard uses a W83627THF, like a number
of motherboards do in this list. The chip is in the upper right
hand corner of your motherboard, just below the socketed flash
BIOS chip:

http://mbm.livewiredev.com/comp/asus.html

The download page for MBM5 is here:
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/download.html

Another Windows program is Speedfan. AFAIK, Speedfan is still
supported, whereas development of MBM5 stopped some time ago.

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

What does your thermometer say about the temperature of the
metal on the Southbridge heatsink ? You would think with the
120mm intake fan near the disk drive bay at the lower front
area of the computer case, that there would be good cooling
over top of the Southbridge.

To show you how nonlinear the thermistors are that are
used for temperature readout, take a look at the table
of data I put in this old thread. Near the bottom of
the thread is data for a Radio Shack 271-110A thermistor.
It is the job of any readout program, to undo this
nonlinear function. Not every thermistor has the exact
same shape of curve, and that is where some of the measurement
error comes from (some, but not all the error).

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus/browse_frm/thread/5b38b2b3bb6ceab6

HTH,
Paul

 

[Ian]

Thanks Paul for the information

I tried MBM5 and it says the exact same temperatures.

I also tried re-flash the BIOS with the version that come on the
original CD. The temperature of the board and the CPU goes down of 10C
(60C CPU and 41C-42C board)

I also noticed that when I flash the BIOS with a newer version, I
receives each time a "CMOS Checksum" error. I have tried flashing it
with the Asus update utility and with the Asus update program with the
same result. I really think that there is a problem with the board. I
will try to make it replace.

For the temperature on the heatsink of the northbridge, I cannot take
it with the thermometer I have... Sorry

Thanks again Paul for the information.

 

[Rob Pruyt]

The Intel 640 is not their best processor. The 650 has a much bigger
thermal contact plate.
I tried several cases for these boards/cpu's. The best so far is a
"Nitro" case with three 12cm fans and a very big airduct.
The stock cooler is not my choice either,is is very noisy and does't
cool well. I use Zalman 7700 coolers with 12 cm fan they are so big that
they also cool the chipset. And always use good thermal paste, arctic
silver works fine.