Location of Discussion Group on Defender website

[Nishanth @ MSFT]

Hi All,

We're looking at re-modelling the Windows Defender website and were
wondering if you had any suggestions on the location of this discussion group.

Right now, users can access the Defender specific community by going to:
http://www.microsoft.com/defender > Support and Training
(right-hand menu) > Support Newsgroups >
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/default.mspx.

The updated Windows Defender webpage will have the look and feel of a
Windows Vista component.

Are you satisfied with where the link is shown or do you have any
suggestions/recommendations? One suggestion I received so far was to move the
newsgroups to the public newsserver. What do you think?

Thanks,

Nishanth

 

[Ron H]

Hi Nishanth, I wrote to you saying that you should be asking this question
over
at the Defender NG from Home Users, but i do understand why you asked that
question there. With many of the people who post here being very informative
about Defender there should be a link to Defender to find out a very
diffinitive
answer to a persons question. This is a very excellent NG and should only
be
made better. There's my request. Ron

 

[Bill Sanderson]

It would be nice if there were some relative standardization of the location
and naming of peer support links among different products--so that users of
the site can work from experience with other products.

Somehow my recollection was that it was more difficult than your
explanation. However, I'll believe you, and that set of links seems
entirely reasonable to me--just the way it is.

I think I would support making the groups public, rather than private, but I
do wonder whether the full hierarchy is necessary? This is guaranteed to be
controversial, but I would suggest dropping networking, appcompat, and
announcements, and probably onlinecommunity as well. This would leave
general, install, and signatures. I'd be willing to add another if we could
figure out the right issue to differentiate.

I find that a good many posts in networking are not related to Windows
Defender. appcompat issues were significant during the beta, but probably
don't warrant a group now. How many announcements related to Windows
Defender are we going to see? Enough to warrant a group? I do realise that
this group provides space for announcements related to other
security-related products, but I'm not convinced they wouldn't go just fine
in a broader security-related group.

Onlinecommunity is a nice group name, and is certainly something we'd all
like to foster among the groups as a whole, but I'm not sure we need a group
with that name to segregate out traffic.

I don't want anyone to feel that I'm complaining about particular traffic or
posts in any of these groups--I value all the traffic that is intended to
help users with spyware issues. I would assume that it might make sense to
simplify the hierarchy if other changes are made.

 

[Ron H]

Hi Bill, For me , what i know in security came from here. What i would like
to see is we keep Announcements because we all have to know what works
welll with Defender and what might cause a conflict and of course true
announcements for Defender. Now General should be able to take care
of Inst; Net; Online; and Appl. But then again i would have no problem
if we didn't change a thing, and thats my opinion. Thanks Again, Ron

 

[Alan D]

Whatever you change, please, please, test it out using a group of
non-computer-savvy people first.

Remember above all that unknowledgeable people in a panic about spyware are
going to be trying to find information to help them. Make the route for them
to follow absolutely clear and as simple as can be.

It's absolutely no use at all for a group of Microsoft experts to make these
kind of decisions without consulting some of the vast number of untrained
and inexperienced people who need help. (The inadequate messaging within
Defender itself is ample demonstration of that failure in the past.)

 

[Bill Sanderson]

Thanks! What works well with Defender is really application compatibility,
at its heart, I think.

But I'm not arguing--I'll let Nisanth and anyone else concerned make this
decision, preferably with as much input from everyone here as possible--so
keep it coming!

 

[Stu]

Hi Nishanth,

As far as the location of the WD Support and Training link is concerned.
When I first visited :

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/default.mspx.

The one thing that struck me was that the Support & Training link was not
very obvious - being obscurely tucked away in the right hand column.
Furthermore, it didn`t really indicate the support would be in the form of
this great NG. Support for me meant, perhaps, I would be taken thru some
lengthy procedure before being processed - if at all. I felt this
particularly when WD was in its infancy. It didn`t catch your eye immediately
and should have taken pride of place under the; `Get Started using Windows
Defender ` link - centre page. The link name (for me) should also have been
something like. Windows Defender support News Groups - with an associated
icon.

Stu

 

[Stu]

Further to my last and while on the subject of WD. I have often wondered too
why one can go to almost any MS website relating to spyware and there is
seldom any specific reference to WD - only the generic term `spyware`. Why
is this? You guys created this beast. Advertise it with pride thru all your
spy and software related web sites. Then again, maybe I`m not visiting the
right MS sites? I get more hits on WD thru Google than MS.

Just one example of this is the MS Solution centre. Here you can find a link
to almost any MS product past or currently on the market. I say almost
because: Where is Windows Defender under a Spyware Category?

Stu

Stu

 

[Robinb]

I am a bit confused

when clicking on the link it forwards you to
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx

Support and training is way to small and too many steps to get there. That
is very confusing to a beginner as well as someone who is not (like me)
Why not make a link under Support and Training and call it "Newsgroups" with
other Subtitles for the rest- it can go to the same place but it is less
confusing.

also I do not see why you need "Definition Updates" since in "announcements"
that is where we post the defintions and also we would still like the
opportunity to post like we do now other antispyware program updates besides
ms security updates.

The advantage of this is that those who go here not only ask Defender
questions but will ask of Defender will work with other antispyware programs
since so many people do use others besides defender.
It has worked so far why not leave it?

Also under Windows Defender Newsgroups
Microsoft should state the conduct of the newsgroup and also state there is
no harm in posting updates for other antispyware/virus software or other
programs as long as it is done in a respectful manner.
This way it eliminates those "trolls" who post in here and scream at the
good folks that have been posting since conception of this newsgoup. this
is terribly annoying as well as unproductive and will send users away
instead of coming here to get the good info they have been getting so far.

will it still be called microsoft.private.security.announcements ? etc etc
for each group or will it be called something else?

robin

 

[Robinb]

I like it where it is now because it is easier to find
but if you did move it it should have all the groups that we have no except
for the "definition update" one because as said we already do that in
"announcements" and it is easier to post it there and if someone is having a
problem with it they can either ask there or go to "general" to ask a
question
Too many newsgroups on the same topic is too much and too confusing to users
robin

 

[Stu]

Anouncements would be great. IF. It was kept for the purpose for which it
was originally intended. With the exception of Bill and Engel, we have all
been guilty of posting none Windows Defender related antispyware
updates/grades. But in our enthusiasm to inform and therefore protect one
another, I feel we have strayed from the original purpose of this NG.
Personally, I love to see the various announcements (none WD related) but
wonder if we could not better keep ourselves just as well informed in those
areas by way of COU ?

Stu

 

[Robinb]

I disagree because here we at least know when there is going to be an update
to other programs and if they work or not with defender without having to go
to each forum for each software.
Since Defender only updates weekly the announcement section will begin to be
boring and no one will even bother coming in then they would actually miss
an update of WD if they did not get it through WU.

robin

 

[Bill Sanderson]

One other issue this brings up for me is:

Where does the Windows Defender user find out how to make use of their "two
free support incidents?"

I've always found this rather mysterious--i.e. how can I describe it easily
in text in these groups?

 

[Bill Sanderson]

I agree that too many is confusing. One purpose of having a group which is
definition related is to be able to make it clear where to post False
Positive issues--which are usually definition related. I don't know if this
is still the case, but during the beta, this was a place Microsoft did watch
for such issues. At this point, if I see one posted, I will usually suggest
using the forms for vendors at the web page--they are still labelled in a
way which seems to discourage use by end-users, but they do go directly to
folks who can make quick use of the information, I believe.

So--maybe we need Definitions, but not announcements?

(kidding, really--I do see some value in the "broader anti-spyware
community" aspect of the announcements--but maybe we can come up with
another name...)

 

[Bill Sanderson]

I can't resist suggesting that boring is exactly what Windows Defender
should be for the vast majority of its users, most of the time--It should
recede into the background and just autoupdate and be boring.

But I do know what you mean. It is nice to have a community around the
issue of spyware as a whole and not just Windows Defender as a product.

 

[Engel]

Hi Stu.

Have a look to the future. If they go this way ;-)

Is this the planning look for WD ???

VISTA eye candy

<http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/co...-15AF7EC6783B&dglist=&ptlist=&exp=&sloc=en-us>

We can have a drop menu to meet the helpers. ;-)
--

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx
- -- ---

<http://groups.google.fr/group/micro...tical+Updates+(85)+Of&rnum=1#a5393c5468ccf766>
- -- ---

<http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...&pt=&catlist=&dglist=&ptlist=&exp=&sloc=en-us>

 

[Stu]

Hi Engel

<smile> Meet the helpers ! Wouldn`t that be something? On the other hand.
Having taken a look at my achievements. Do you think I`d get a mention ? LOL.

On a more serious note. While, of course, we all realise WD is a `freebie`
it should still be worthy of the Vista orientated `eye catching candy`.
Here`s hoping !

Stu

 

[Stu]

A very good point Bill - one which I have long since forgotten. I wonder how
many of us are even aware of this let alone where to get it? Personally , I
have somehow found myself conditioned into thinking. WD is a freebie, so
don`t expect much (if anything at all), by way of MS support. I guess the
answer to my questions lies in these WD NGs. Maybe MS has taken the view that
they have become so helpful and informative, there has been no requirement
for them to indulge themselves directly with any degree of enthusiasm.

Stu

 

[Dave M]

My memory is of sending a user to Microsoft with that two question support
incident promise in hand, and for him to later return with support's
puzzled blank expression... Who knows, maybe I didn't specify to ask for
someone named Faulhaber - just kidding - sortof ;o(

 

[Stu]

Agreed - if the third party software announcements were informative in the
way you suggest. However, from my experiences on here, the majority are
invariabley just that - `announcements` with a link of where to get it with
relatively little feedback. Perhaps the need for a WD Discussion NG relating
to interaction between WD and other software vendors would be an avenue to be
explored? Here we could all share our experiences together?

Stu