Learn C# 2003 now, or wait for C# 2005?

[jfathman]

Hello,

I am thinking of spending some holiday time reading the third edition
of Programming C# by Jesse Liberty, using Visual C# .Net Standard 2003.

But I see at www.oreilly.com that a new fourth edition of that book is
due out in Feb 2005, and I see in this newsgroup that C# 2005 is
forthcoming.

Does it make sense to go ahead with the third edition of the book using
C# 2003, or should I wait for the fourth edition of the book and C#
2005?

Has a date been announced when a C# 2005 boxed product will be
available?

Thanks.

Jim

 

[Bruce Wood]

The date I have heard is "first half 2005", which probably means
summertime next year. Another date I heard was for the Pacific
Developer's Conference 2005 in LA, which I think is later in the year.

Yes, you should go ahead with C# 2003. Here is why.

1. The differences in the core language are not radical. The biggest
addition (from my point of view) is generics. However, this adds to,
but doesn't change how the core language works. This is not a Visual
Basic situation in which the whole language changes and you "can't do
it that way any more."

2. The important part of learning C# is not learning C#. It's learning
the .NET Framework. While the Framework is bound to change along with
C# 2005, I doubt that there will be much flux in the basic classes that
you would pick up as a beginner, so the knowledge should transfer
nicely.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

The date I have heard is "first half 2005", which probably means
summertime next year. Another date I heard was for the Pacific
Developer's Conference 2005 in LA, which I think is later in the year.

Yes, you should go ahead with C# 2003. Here is why.

1. The differences in the core language are not radical. The biggest
addition (from my point of view) is generics. However, this adds to,
but doesn't change how the core language works. This is not a Visual
Basic situation in which the whole language changes and you "can't do
it that way any more."

That's true.

2. The important part of learning C# is not learning C#. It's learning
the .NET Framework. While the Framework is bound to change along with
C# 2005, I doubt that there will be much flux in the basic classes that
you would pick up as a beginner, so the knowledge should transfer
nicely.

Not sure I agree with that - I don't think there's much point in
learning the "old" collection classes when the new generic ones will
probably be used in almost all situations.

Personally, if I were starting now and didn't need to ship anything
until after .NET 2 came out, I'd install the beta of VS.NET 2005 (or
Visual C# Express Edition if I didn't have MSDN) and play with that.
The changes in IDE are likely to be pretty significant.

 

[Anders Borum [.NET/C# MCP]]

Hello!

Personally, if I were starting now and didn't need to ship anything
until after .NET 2 came out, I'd install the beta of VS.NET 2005 (or
Visual C# Express Edition if I didn't have MSDN) and play with that.
The changes in IDE are likely to be pretty significant.

I might warn other developers who haven't been testing the 2005 release yet.
It's almost unbareable to return to the current 2003 IDE, once you've tasted
the forbidden fruit of the 2005 IDE (all the great C# 2.0 enhancements,
generics, IDE enhancements - productive refactoring tools to name one).

Most of us are probably in a position where code needs to ship before .NET
2.0 is released. Having used the 2005 IDE at home for quite some time, I
find that I miss many of the features on a daily basis, working with the
2003 IDE.

You've been warned

To answer the question from the initial poster, I would recommend getting
started on the 2005 IDE right away. Ofcourse, this is depending if you've
been asked to ship code before 2.0 is out (not sure that sentence came out
right .. .

 

[Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]]

I think the fundemental thing I'd say here is that you do yourself a disservice *not* learning C# now if you are going to learn it in the future. There are a bunch of new features in the language and base class library but in reality most things are stying the same. Getting 3 months headstart before jesse's new book comes out (if thats what you are basing your metric on) will only be a good thing.

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk

2. The important part of learning C# is not learning C#. It's learning
the .NET Framework. While the Framework is bound to change along with
C# 2005, I doubt that there will be much flux in the basic classes that
you would pick up as a beginner, so the knowledge should transfer
nicely.

Not sure I agree with that - I don't think there's much point in
learning the "old" collection classes when the new generic ones will
probably be used in almost all situations.

Personally, if I were starting now and didn't need to ship anything
until after .NET 2 came out, I'd install the beta of VS.NET 2005 (or
Visual C# Express Edition if I didn't have MSDN) and play with that.
The changes in IDE are likely to be pretty significant.

 

[Bruce Wood]

All true, Jon, but the OP was asking if he should _wait_ to learn C#
until the book on C# 2005 comes out, or start now. My point was that
the changes are not so radical that anything he learns now using 2003
would be throwaway. 99% of his beginner knowledge would transfer to the
new world of 2005, IMHO.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

All true, Jon, but the OP was asking if he should _wait_ to learn C#
until the book on C# 2005 comes out, or start now. My point was that
the changes are not so radical that anything he learns now using 2003
would be throwaway. 99% of his beginner knowledge would transfer to the
new world of 2005, IMHO.

I agree that there's no need to wait - but I'd not wait and still start
learning 2005.

 

[=?windows-1252?Q?Jo=9Ako_=8Augar?=]

Hello,

I am thinking of spending some holiday time reading the third edition
of Programming C# by Jesse Liberty, using Visual C# .Net Standard 2003.

But I see at www.oreilly.com that a new fourth edition of that book is
due out in Feb 2005, and I see in this newsgroup that C# 2005 is
forthcoming.

Does it make sense to go ahead with the third edition of the book using
C# 2003, or should I wait for the fourth edition of the book and C#
2005?

Has a date been announced when a C# 2005 boxed product will be
available?

Thanks.

Jim

It's better to wait C# 2020
Just kidding!

Feel free to start with C# 2003, it won't harm you and I think you will
adjust to C# 2005 very quickly.

 

[Miha Markic [MVP C#]]

Words of wisdom
They should be written with bold red fonts size = 178 on the download site.

 

[Bradley1234]

You can download the free Beta C# from Microsoft and begin coding right now,
in C#. Dont let another day go by without coding something, or it will
bother you while youre celebrating Christmas time.

 

[pachanga]

I have VS 2003, got it for free during my years in college.. I heard a
lot about VS 2005, but I dont think I need a new interface changes,
etc, new classes, new tools etc. For someone who can't afford VS 2005,
I was wondering, Can I still use all the new features in my VS2003?
Buying VS 2005 is actually for people who doesn't even have VS.NET.

 

[Bruce Wood]

I doubt it. Visual Studio would have to know about the new features for
Intellisense and a lot of the other syntax-sensitive features of Visual
Studio to work properly. I would be surprised if you could just throw
the v2.0 C# language at VS2003 and have it all work out OK.
That said, I've never tried it. Has anyone?

 

[Miha Markic [MVP C#]]

Hi

VS.NET 2005 express beta is free for now plus i guess it will be cheap once
gone gold.

 

[pachanga]

I was thinking about that too, since, the upgrades is cheap. But, since
mine VS2003 is a student version upgrading is not an option. I would
have to buy the full version, which is to expensive. I would use Mono,
free open source version of C#, but the downfall in using Mono is that
microsoft has not yet allowed all its abilities for Mono, for example,
windows api's are not yet allowed.. This is the downfall of proprietary
language such as C#.

 

[Bradley1234]

Well you must consider the cost of doing business. Open source has specific
advantages and drawbacks, one is not better always than the other.

 

[james]

There's always SharpDevelop. And it's Free too.
james

 

[Peter N Roth]

[ ]

This is the downfall of proprietary
language such as C#.

C# is not proprietary; in addition to SharpDevelop, Borland has a a version,
too.
--
Grace + Peace,
Peter N Roth
Engineering Objects International
http://engineeringobjects.com
Home of Matrix.NET

 

[jfathman]

Thanks for all the excellent advice.

I ran hot and cold for a few days whether to begin with C# 2003, but in
the end, I opened the box (can't return it now) and took it for a spin.

It's a nice product. It sure reminds me of Java from my Java holiday a
couple of years ago (Java, Linux, Tomcat, Servlets) and it reminds me
of VB6 (which I use in my day job from time to time).

I understand that C# isn't platform independent like Java, but I'd
still have to say that C# is a better Java than Java. The MS (love 'em
or hate 'em) tools are superior, and you get the graphics developed
over years and years and millions/billions of R&D dollars. It shows.
No crummy gray and purple widgets here.

I'm not knocking Java. I hope it wins. But it will have to find a way
to be prettier than it is now.

I am really an embedded software engineer, not a Windows engineer. So
I am more at home with C/C++, POSIX (QNX, Linux, FreeBSD), bash, vim,
make, etc. But most embedded systems require host-based (usually
Windows) admin tools to configure and monitor the embedded system. I
have been using VB6 for that, but it looks to me like C# will be a good
replacement now that VB6 has been retired by MS.

I haven't picked up the Jesse Liberty book yet, but I'll probably do
that the next day or two. For now, I am still working through the
minimal (but interesting) Getting Started booklet that comes with C#
2003. I'll probably buy the Jesse Liberty book twice -- the 3rd
edition now for C# 2003, and the 4th edition in a few months when C#
2005 is out (if I haven't switched back to Python or some other Penguin
software by then).

If I can get some simple serial port and socket stuff talking between
C# and a Linux box in a few days I'll be happy. Since a char is 16
bits in C# (if I read correctly) I am interested to see how I can read
and write byte oriented message structures. Fun stuff.

Merry Christmas, all.

Jim

 

[pachanga]

You have both of both worlds.

 

[Tim Hobbs]

the only problem with using 05 beta is the are some debuger errors that
will confuse new developers I think their might even be a bug in this
beta! it is great I just got the beta but got lost Being used to
borlands klick the error and press f1 thing