Is the Professional Look Really Better?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Stephen Horrillo
  • Start date Start date
Eric said:
The point is that FP is a slow and cumbersome way to update a site.
Using a halfway decent FTP programme there is next to no chance of any
interruption for users of the site. With any reasonable volume of
traffic that can make a big difference.

FP is convenient for the site owner, and that's fine for hobby sites.
However it's not designed for the convenience for site users, and
that's a problem with a commercial site.
Click to expand...

I think you're speaking out of ignorance. The issue that I am describing
here has nothing whatsoever to do with FrontPage. It is an ASP.NET issue.
Updating a static HTML page with FrontPage or using any other method will
have no ill effect on anything.

I think we're getting these ill-informed remarks likely from the webmaster
group that is copied on this thread. These posts have been enlightening
because they have demonstrated two things; just how ignorant most
"webmasters" really are and also the misinformation that most folks use to
try and discredit software that they don't understand.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
GreyWyvern said:
Whatever you say, but I just went to the URI above and got the same
error message as Toby. Your updates certainly last a long time. Almost
12hrs or so.
Click to expand...


No you didn't. I log every single error and there haven't been any today.
I suspect that you were seeing what's in cache or that you are not being
truthful.

But I do, lots of them. Numerous javascript errors which I get all
over the site. Most likely because FP designs for IE only and
doesn't consider the standards of other browsers.
Click to expand...

I have not a lick of JavaScript on my site that was generated by FrontPage.
The only script that is "all over the site" is the menu script, and it is
cross-browser compatible and has been tested in all major browsers.

Your statements only serve to reveal your ignorance. You have answered my
previous question. You are one of those Internet snobs who believes that he
is so much more enlightened than anyone who uses FrontPage.

Take all kinds.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
And lo, Jim Cheshire (JIMCO) didst speak in
microsoft.public.frontpage.client,alt.www.webmaster:
No you didn't. I log every single error and there haven't been any
today.
I suspect that you were seeing what's in cache or that you are not being
truthful.
Click to expand...

Do not question my integrity, mortal.

<http://www.greywyvern.com/img/misc/jimco.png>

Also notice the horizontal scrollbar at 1024px viewport width.
I have not a lick of JavaScript on my site that was generated by
FrontPage.
The only script that is "all over the site" is the menu script, and it is
cross-browser compatible and has been tested in all major browsers.
Click to expand...

Opera, apparently, is not one of those browsers:

-----------------
http://www.jimcoaddins.com/templates/fpstandard.htm
Inline script thread
Error:
name: TypeError
message: Statement on line 2: toObject conversion
Backtrace:
Line 2 of inline#5 script in
http://www.jimcoaddins.com/templates/fpstandard.htm
return p.substr(0, p.lastIndexOf("/") + 1);
Line 2 of inline#5 script in
http://www.jimcoaddins.com/templates/fpstandard.htm
var iImg;
var jImg;
var tObj;
if (! document.layers)
else
if (! tObj)
rimPath = _gp(iImg.src);
rjsPath = _gp(jImg.src);
rPath2Root = rjsPath + "../";
return true;
Line 2 of inline#5 script in
http://www.jimcoaddins.com/templates/fpstandard.htm
var rimPath = null;
var rjsPath = null;
var rPath2Root = null;
InitRelCode();
-----------------
Your statements only serve to reveal your ignorance. You have answered
my
previous question. You are one of those Internet snobs who believes
that he
is so much more enlightened than anyone who uses FrontPage.
Click to expand...

That's because it's so true. People like you keep proving it over and
over.
Take all kinds.
Click to expand...

Including arrogant children who think they already know it all?

Grey
 
Toby said:
It *looks* nice -- it just *behaves* amateurish.

From this page:
http://www.jimcoaddins.com/templates/fpstandard.htm

Click the "Home" link.

We apologize for the inconvenience!
An error has occurred in processing your request. Please
try your request again. If this problem continues, please
contact us.
Thank you!
Click to expand...

In Konqueror (and therefore probably Safari) the navigation doesn't work
at all - although the flyout menus work clicking the links has no
effect.
 
But I do, lots of them. Numerous javascript errors which I get all over
the site. Most likely because FP designs for IE only and doesn't consider
the standards of other browsers.
Click to expand...

"Other" browsers have their own problems. Despite the hype, Firefox still
has a lot of bugs, even with good code. 1.01 supposedly fixes some, but have
not tried it.

That said, FP has it's place. If you are a full time web guru and are
familiar with css, xhtml, javascript, etc etc then it is not for you. Not
all of us have the time to spend to learn and to code all that might be
required for a really "professional" website.

The main purpose of our website is to sell things. There are around 5000
products, many (probably most) which require some or a lot of technical
specs and text information. Not to mention the constantly (especially at
years' beginning) changing prices, availability, graphics, model
changes/add/deletions etc. Just taking care of that involves a lot of time -
probably 75% of a day's work. FP allows me to make changes fast and easily.

Eventually, when all the scut work is done, then I may have time to go back
and pretty it up and learn css beyond a few basic tools. Then maybe I will
become a web guru and laugh at people that use FP. But that time is not now.
 
I'm still hoping for a world's record for a long-running thread! ;-)

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
 
Whoa, I feel like I've walked onto the set of the Jerry Springer Show! Just
be careful about throwing your computer!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
 
fwiw;
I've gone through several books on the subject. the best one for the way I
like to work/ learn is html utopia from www.sitepoint.com although it's for
"table-less" design, it's easy enough to apply the classes and id's to table
cells, etc.

HTH

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
 
And lo, Windsun didst speak in
microsoft.public.frontpage.client,alt.www.webmaster:
FP has it's place. If you are a full time web guru and are
familiar with css, xhtml, javascript, etc etc then it is not for you. Not
all of us have the time to spend to learn and to code all that might be
required for a really "professional" website.

[snip]

Eventually, when all the scut work is done, then I may have time to go
back
and pretty it up and learn css beyond a few basic tools. Then maybe I
will
become a web guru and laugh at people that use FP. But that time is not
now.
Click to expand...

That's understandable, and I sympathize. Not everyone has the time.
Here's hoping you find your way to "the dark side" sooner than later ;)

Grey
 
even if you're, as you say, "a full time web guru", that doesn't mean that
FrontPage isn't for you.

only armatures claim the tools they use make them "professional".

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
--
 
Chris said:
In Konqueror (and therefore probably Safari) the navigation doesn't
work at all - although the flyout menus work clicking the links has no
effect.
Click to expand...

That's why I said major browsers. :)

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
GreyWyvern said:
And lo, Jim Cheshire (JIMCO) didst speak in
microsoft.public.frontpage.client,alt.www.webmaster:
Click to expand...

I see the errors as well.
Do not question my integrity, mortal.
Click to expand...

<http://www.greywyvern.com/img/misc/jimco.png>

Also notice the horizontal scrollbar at 1024px viewport width.
Click to expand...

I wondered about that. Really silly.

...which means that, what, 10-15% of your visitors will not be able to
navigate beyond the link they were given? That's even sillier.
Opera, apparently, is not one of those browsers:
Click to expand...

Same error I get in Opera.

Please fix your word wrap, Jimco. Thanks.
 
And lo, Jim Cheshire (JIMCO) didst speak in
microsoft.public.frontpage.client,alt.www.webmaster:
You are most definitely one weird individual.
Click to expand...

You see, when you manage to shelve your 'ignis fatuus', there *are* some
things we can agree on.

Grey
 
That said, FP has it's place. If you are a full time web guru and are
familiar with css, xhtml, javascript, etc etc then it is not for you. Not
all of us have the time to spend to learn and to code all that might be
required for a really "professional" website.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I have to disagree. FrontPage is a set of productivity tools.
Plenty of "full time web gurus" use it. No, they don't use all the stuff
that beginners use, but they use the other tools. For example, I do ASP.Net
applications with Visual Studio, which has a really lousy HTML editor. When
I need some HTML, I open FrontPage and compose it, then paste it into my
ASP.Net app. While I could certainly hand-write the HTML, it would take
longer. And time is money. In fact, the more of a "full time web guru" you
are, the more that time is money.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
 
Hey, what about me, Jim. I'm weird too! ;-)

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
 
Hmmm...this guy's site proves you don't have to use FP to look amateur.

Tom

| > Maybe you don't want your site to look the same as 4,239,488 others?
| >
|
| The evidence seems to be that is likely to be a minority position. Sadly.
|
| --
| eric
| www.ericjarvis.co.uk
| "live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
 
Using Windows XP IE6 SP2, NS7, NS6.21 and FireFox 1.0 I see no scripting error messages, all links I
tried, worked as expected.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
Opera's not throwing any errors and the page looks fine.
 

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