Is the Professional Look Really Better?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Stephen Horrillo
  • Start date Start date
When I first started using FP, after a few weeks of mucking around with it, I realized I really needed to learn Photoshop first. So I spend a few months learning graphics image programs, then went back to FP.

Now of course there are simplier and quite capable (and less expensive) image editing programs out there.

(btw, try not to cross post msgs not all isp's carry all newgroups and it's not nice anyway)
 
The following is what I consider to be a very basic site but does have a
"professional" look, not
that it was designed by a "professional" but that it has a
professional/corporate type of look.

The site was designed in FP and use FP Includes for maintaining the
navigation structure between
pages.

What site were you referring to?
 
horse for courses - take a wander round your local market - check the
spelling on the signs by the fresh produce stall. Obviously written by
an illiterate idiot. Then check the smart car the stall owner drives
home.

Point is: the site is for the target audience.

Very good point. Thanks. That explains a lot. These comments came from
people who are virtually computer illiterate, but my thinking was "out of
the mouth's of babes."

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: www.over100percent.com
 
Stephen said:
I was just using FP as it seems it was designed to be used. I've found
nothing in the help files that would help to improve the appearance of the
site. I also did http://1stresponsecprtraining.com/ for a friend which looks
a little better but no matter what theme I use it comes out looking like it
was designed "by someone who started yesterday." BTW links to several other
of my lame attempts are at www.stephenhorrillo.com. Look, isn't the whole
idea of a program like Front Page to make it so that even a novice can
create a professional looking site? If someone like me who's used a computer
since the days of DOS and trains people for a living can't figure get decent
results, how is the average person who buys MS Office going to figure it
out? It's like it's too complicated for the novice and unneeded by the pro.
Am I missing something here?

Yes. All the most important aspects of the design process.

FP is a site building tool. A pretty lousy one, but that's besides the
point. It doesn't do ANY design. It's software. You have to ignore all the
hype and all the sales pitches and actually use your own knowledge of how
things actually work.

So first you have to clearly establish what the purpose of the site is and
how that can best be achieved. IN DETAIL. That's before you even think
about content, let alone design. The vast majority of web sites have
already failed before they start simply because this stage of the process
isn't fun. However it makes all the difference.

Then you can start deciding what needs to be on the site, how visitors
will want to navigate around it, and how they'll find it in the first
place. It's not until you've done that bit that you can even start on
anything visual.

When you know the structure you can start on making a template because you
now know what navigation is needed and what people need to find most
easily on each page. It means you don't have to simply slap everything on
to every page. It means you'll be able to do something that isn't
cluttered and too confusing.

At which point using a tool like FP or a CMS will enable you to progress
without learning html.

What you can't get is ANY software that will get adequate results unless
you do all the thinking for it.

It isn't using the software that's complicated or difficult, What's
complicated is all the stuff about your own business and customers that
you've learned over the years. What's difficult is breaking through all
the preconceptions and the hype and actually working out a design process
that has nothing to do with software sales pitches.
 
There are a wide range of nice, professionally designed themes and templates available from 3rd
Parties for FrontPage, as well as Dreamweaver, for users that don't want to use the default themes
or templates provided and many are free or low cost. These provide additional choices of themes and
templates for those that don't want to take the time and effort to develop a custom site design.
Themes and Templates however can save time in designing a site, so that is why many people use them.

FP is designed to be used by both people who are just getting started in web development, as well as
experience web developers.

Just because an application come with themes, templates, clipart, doesn't mean that they have to be
used. FP as well as Dreamweaver doesn't control the design or look of a web site, the user does by
the choices they make, the skills they have and/or their willingness to move outside the FP or
Dreamweaver provided box.

A commercial/business web site reflect the image of the organization behind the site, is the site
look shabby few people will return. If you visited a local store and the store was in disarray,
etc., what would your opinion be of the ownership, would you return?

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
But you didn't design/create it, it a template based site where you just added content.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
You can pick up some templates (very different from themes) and quite
easily
design a very nice site. In my opinion, a Mambo site is as easy to pick
out
as a FrontPage themed site and I don't particularly like either.

That's why I tried to ask some novices of their opinions. All I know is
Front Page so I can spot one a mile away. But you're right, now that I know
what a Mambo site looks like I will probably be spotting those now. Being
that you don't like either is there any one's that you do like? My host
provides Nexellant and PostNuke. Any suggestions?

BTW, I know I'm looking for shortcuts and that's wrong. When I have the time
I'll learn all this stuff from the ground up but I have too much on my plate
right now to do it right so I'm sort of forced to compromise for now.

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: www.over100percent.com
 
Everything (other than the fact that I didn't use FP). It managed me
links.
It created and managed my templates and includes. It gave me a wonderful
UI
into the details of the code and the CSS. And it provided a very
convenient
vehicle for me to upload the final site and maintain the files on the
remote
location. What else could I ask for?

Then why didn't you actually use Front Page to create the site?

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: www.over100percent.com
 
My definition of quality: "Meets or exceeds the expectations of the client."
in message Although not crazy about the orange/red/gold color scheme, overall the cms
page looks more pro. Perhaps use a different color palette. Maybe red is
physcologically threatening.
 
Stephen said:
BTW, I know I'm looking for shortcuts and that's wrong. When I have
the time I'll learn all this stuff from the ground up but I have too
much on my plate right now to do it right so I'm sort of forced to
compromise for now.

I don't think that's wrong at all. You can use any one of the vast number
of good quality templates out there and design a great looking site in no
time flat.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
I hear that a lot, and it simply is not true.

It might SEEM true, because it is so easy to get a simple site up and
running with FP, but the same design sense applies to any site, not just FP.
I have seen many sites made with FP that looked as good or better than many
of the so-called professional sites.

It is not the tool at fault, it is who uses it and how. I have seen demo
sites (for themes) made with 2 different methods - FP and Dreamweaver, and
they were virtually identical. Anyone can make a bad site with any software.
That is not a reflection on the software.
 
You seem to be of the idea that you need some kind of pre-designed theme. If
so, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of professional FP themes you can
buy for $10 to $100. But you don't need themes, or you can make your own
theme. Some of the themes that come with FP are not real good, some are. But
I think that most larger sites don't use themes, or use a minimal theme just
to set the basic tone of the site.
 
Not really. Same basic content, but you used pre-existing templates. None or
little of the actual design is yours.
 
I think you need to get past the FP hype.

FP, like anything else, is just a tool. Basically an editing tool, like
Word. It does not think or design. What it does for me is make basic text
editing and site management a lot easier. I don't have time to learn HTML,
Java, and all the other things in depth

If I was a professional site designer I would probably not use FP. But I am
not, my main purpose is to take care of our company websites. Our websites
are what makes us money, not making the websites.

Yes, in many cases it would be nice to be able to sit down and write some
fancy javascript to do all kinds of neat things. But I do not have time for
that. So I try to make them look reasonably professional, but I am not going
to spend hours or weeks learning how to write cgi scripts.

For me FP does what I want it do, and I don't have to spend hours if I need
to make a few simple changes on 1500 pages. I just change the DWT and it is
done.
 
Duende said:
While sitting in a puddle Stephen Horrillo scribbled in the mud:


comes burp barf

and don't forget that sticky goo stuff that leaks from both ends
 
Stephen said:
I created two versions of the same basic information. One in Front Page, one
with Mambo. I showed both to a few people and they seem to like the
"amateurish" Front Page version over the Mambo one. I got comments like "the
FP one is less threatening" it's easier to navigate," "easier on the eyes."
I'm new to this but it makes me wonder if IN PRACTICE if a very basic
website isn't better. My FP site is at http://www.brokeragenttraining.com
the Mambo site is at http://www.brokeragenttraining.com/CMS. I personally
would feel more comfortable doing business with someone with the Mambo type
site but that's not the real life feedback I'm getting so far.

Take your Mambo site and make 2 changes....

1. Make the navigation a bit more obvious. At the minute it's too small
and hidden away at the side of the page

2. Put your search box in a more logical place. At the minute, it looks
like it's in a completely random location.

Now take your FP page, and throw it in the bin....
 
FrontPage was not designed to "just" use themes. Themes are just an option.
If you used a theme you didn't "design" anything, you just used an automated process which severely
limited your options.
Kill the theme and start with a new blank page, and then you will be a "designer."


--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer
 

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