Installintg Vista Ultimate Upgrage package

[Ken Springer]

My computer currently has XP Home installed. I'd like to experiment with
Vista BEFORE I remove XP and install Vista.

If I were to purchase the upgrade package of Vista ultimate, can I
successfully install the Vista package in a mulitboot setup? Can this Vista
package be installed without having to install XP Home first? Are there any
restrictions on how many times the upgrade package can be used?

My computer's recovery disks are a disk image. Therefore I do not have an
XP Home installation disk.

Thanks.

 

[Colton]

Ken,

From my understanding, you must have the operating system installed that you are wanting to upgrade when you insert the
upgrade CD and attempt to upgrade your system. In my opinion, I would rather buy the operating system flat out, instead of
getting the update. However, if you are wanting to try the upgrade, you will more than likely have to install the Home
Edition before you can continue with the upgrading process. Either way you want to go, dual booting will be no problem.

--

Colton, PHP/VB6/HTML/CSS/Javscript/IIS/Apache
OS: Vista Home Premium x86 SP1
Location: NC, USA

- http://explosion.debug-inc.com
- (e-mail address removed)

 

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Colton,

That's kind of what I thought the situation would be. Personally, I'd
rather have the full version flat out too. But I've just enrolled in an
Information Technology program, and Vista and Office Pro 2007 will be
required at some point. The school store has a helluva deal on both, and I'm
trying to find out just which versions of both programs the store is selling.

Thanks for the info.

Ken

 

[Colton]

Yeah. If you're sure that the course that you are taking is going to require it one day, then I would say to just go
ahead and buy it flat out. That way, you could possibly have insurance added to it? I'm not sure if Microsoft still does this
with their products. It'd be the best way to go, in my opinion, and then if it gets lost, order a replacement. Be sure to
keep your reciept, though, or they'll act like bitches when it comes time to replace it.

--

Colton, PHP/VB6/HTML/CSS/Javscript/IIS/Apache
OS: Vista Home Premium x86 SP1
Location: NC, USA

- http://explosion.debug-inc.com
- (e-mail address removed)
- AIM: Trouncing

*Please include that you recieved my contact information from the newsgroup, or your message will be ignored.

 

[Ken Springer]

Thanks for the information on how to install Vista cleanly.

But as noted on your page, MS could remove that ability at anytime. So I'm
a bit leary about going the upgrade route at this moment.

I'll think about it for awhile.

Ken

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Ken.

The upgrade package is the same as the full retail package EXCEPT that it
won't work unless it sees a qualifying Windows version already installed on
your computer - which you have. The old trick of "show me the qualifying
disk for a moment" won't work with Vista. As the others have said, it will
allow a clean install (which it calls a custom install) onto a separate
partition from your existing WinXP, creating the dual-boot menu on your hard
drive in the process. (No matter where you install Ultimate, it will update
the few startup files in the Active partition on your HD before installing
all the other gigabytes of files into your Vista partition.)

Especially if you haven't multi-booted before, you should read this short KB
article:
Definitions for system volume and boot volume
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

What you probably know as Drive C: now is serving as both your system volume
and your boot volume for WinXP. After adding Vista, its drive letter may
change, but it will still be the system volume for the whole computer. Your
future reboots will start there and then branch either to C:\Windows (which
is WinXP's boot volume) or to V:\Windows (or whatever letter you assign to
the new Vista partition).

If you boot into WinXP and run Vista's Setup from there, it will see and
respect the drive letters that WinXP has already assigned, so if you've used
Disk Management to create a new partition and called it V:, then that is the
letter that Vista will use, leaving the existing system volume as Drive C:
in both WinXP and Vista. But if you boot from the Vista DVD to run Setup,
it will not know WinXP's drive letter assignments, and it will assign C: to
its new home, probably changing the system volume to D:. Either way, it
might confuse you, but neither Vista nor WinXP will be confused. (My
current boot volume is Y:.)

Later, when you are ready to remove WinXP, you can simply boot into Vista
and delete C:\Windows - but you probably will want to do some other cleanup
and reorganization at that time, too.

Let us know how this works out for you.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 0908 in Win7 x64 6801)

 

[Ken Springer]

Hi, RC.

At first blush, the idea of buying the Upgrade package may not be the way I
want to go. If I had not enrolled in a BS in Information Technology program,
I wouldn't touch Vista with a 10' pole, as the old saying goes. From my
perspective, MS never fixed all the problems with Win98, and they haven't
with XP. Why should I believe they have with Vista? I'm tired of having to
spend money on antivirus software, putting up with viruses because of
loopholes left in the OS, perpetually slowing down as crap builds up in
(presumably) the registry file and possibly elsewhere that my older computer
has to sort through.

IMO, running Windows is like owning a "real" English car, you have to
continually fiddle with it to keep it running. And I'm tired of the constant
attention needed. Just a couple days ago, the computer stopped talking to
printers. I've got better things to do that this.

I'm trying to postpone the purchase of new hardware, so I have to be able to
install the copy of Vista I buy on new hardware. I'm not planning on buying
an off the shelf computer. As I mentioned earlier, my system recovery disks
for this computer is a disk image, meaning I'd end up with all the original
software that came when it was new in the box if I installed it on the new
computer. I do not want that.

Thanks for the KB article, you must have read my mind. I was going to have
to go the knowledge base to find out more about multiboot systems. Now I've
got a starting place. Someday, I'd like to also install a current version of
some currenet distribution of Linux.

But for the Vista multiboot install, the only software I intend to run under
Vista is the spyware, spamware, anti-virus software, and the software I need
for class. At this point, I don't have any other need for Vista except for
class. I don't know of anything that Vista can do that I even want. For me,
the same actually goes for XP over Win98. To use an analogy, for me to buy
Vista is like buying a 5 ton truck to do the job of the pickup.

It will probably be at least 2 weeks before I do any of this. If I
remember, I'll come back and post how it went.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Ken.

I'm not here to sell you Vista - or anything else. I've been using Quicken
since beta days and I think it is head and shoulders better than WinXP - but
I'm not going to try to convince you of that. My aim is to help you, if I
can.

You asked how to install Vista to multi-boot with WinXP, and I tried to tell
you that, based on having done it myself at least a dozen times. Whether
you do it my way or your way or not at all is up to you.

But I'll comment on a couple of other topics you mentioned.

But for the Vista multiboot install, the only software I intend to run
under
Vista is the spyware, spamware, anti-virus software, and the software I
need
for class.

I don't have any such anti-malware on my computer, except for the firewall
and Defender built into Vista. My main protection is my own care in
"practicing safe hex". My computer is relatively isolated, since I'm just
one guy with just one computer and no net but the Internet - and no user
except myself (and my 5-year-old grandson). That alone provides a good
measure of protection from outside threats. In your case, you probably will
need to learn much more about such threats than I've had to know. I've had
very few computer classes, and those just at the 101 level. What I know has
come mostly from 30 years of experience, starting with the original TRS-80
that I bought in 1977. There was nobody to ask because nobody in town knew
any more about these new computers than I did, so I had to learn more than I
ever intended, just for self defense.

If I had not enrolled in a BS in Information Technology program,

The other point is that, as you probably noticed in the KB article, the
terms "system volume" and "boot volume" are counterintuitive - just
backwards from the way most computer users think of them. That causes a lot
of confusion for those who have not invested the time to understand the
terms. Several hours spent with a good reference book, such as the Vista
Resource Kit or Vista Inside Out, will pay dividends, not just for today or
next semester but for as long as you use computers - which just might be the
rest of your life. Read especially the troubleshooting chapters on disk
drives and file systems. If you get those concepts clear in your mind,
you'll be way ahead of most of your classmates.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2009 1202 in Win7 x64 6801)

 

[Ken Springer]

Hi, RC,

I took nothing you wrote as trying to sell me on Vista. And I apologize if
I wrote something that caused you to think I thought you were. I learned a
very long time ago, this medium of written communication is very treacherous
territory for miscommunication. I had been what is now "online" for only two
weeks when I read a post to.......... Golly, can't remember exactly the
termed used, but it was in the time of BBS systems....... and I knew right
away fur was going to fly. And it did. LOL

Those were the days when I was paying $4/mo. for the privilege of having
email and a 300 baud modem.

"Trash 80"...... I started with a loaded Atari 800, 48k RAM. Still have it
too.

I'm just trying to make sure that what I buy, and think is what I want,
doesn't turn out to be just the opposite in a couple of years.

It sounds like we aren't that much difference. You have a grandson, I have
a Dell PII Pentium with Win98, than many times I'd prefer to use over XP.

::laughing:: We may have free email these days, but we now pay good money
for books like Vista Inside Out. When we bought our first computers, we got
those books for free. They called them manuals. LOL I'll probably buy
those books as well as Office 2007 Pro. The problem is, you just never know
which books will be the best. All the books, including MS's, always seem to
leave out a number of things that would clear up a problem or question if the
information was there. :-(

Haven't had time to read and digest the KB article, but it's printed and
will get read and placed in my "XP Inside and Out" book.

LOL!!!! Mabye we better give up this excellent conversation, it's straying
from the original subject. Might get me into trouble! LOL

Take care, have a great holiday.


Ken

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Ken.

this medium of written communication is very treacherous

Agreed. Based on your comment about getting a BS, I had a mental picture of
you as a young college boy. Not someone old enough to have used a BBS, much
less to have owned an Atari. ;^}

That KB314470 is very short, but it should be read very slowly and carefully
because, like I said, the terms are backwards, rooted in early-hard-drive
legacy. Microsoft didn't invent these, they inherited them. As one
commentator said, "Those unfamiliar with these matters might think it
strange that we boot from the system partition and keep the operating system
files in the boot volume." In a recent session on the new Windows 7, the
presenters used the terms "system volume" and "OS volume". I'm not sure
they are a lot better, but at least, they keep away from calling C:\Windows
the "boot folder", which causes much of the confusion since it is NOT on the
partition from which the BIOS boots the computer - unless the system volume
and the boot volume share the same partition.

books like Vista Inside Out. When we bought our first computers, we got
those books for free. They called them manuals.

The foundations for my understanding of disk systems, including FAT,
folders, sectors, etc., were the manuals for bit-level editors like SuperZap
back in floppy-only days. Then the original Norton Utilities, especially
DiskEdit, when Peter Norton still wrote them, and the instruction manuals
for them, added some education in MS-DOS, before Windows. I never have
learned enough about NTFS, but those foundations give me some understanding
of the structure of today's humongous hard drives. And Adam Osborne's
Introduction to Microprocessors, Volume 0, helped me get over the threshold
of hexadecimal. He taught me why 1 K is 1024 and not 1,000. ;^}

Oh, well. As you said, enough reminiscing. Have a Merry Christmas and a
Happy New Year!

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2009 1202 in Win7 x64 6801)

 

[Ken Springer]

I got my disk stuff from the 8-bit Atari manual. As for superZap, haven't
heard of that for years. I think there was an Atari version. Trying to get
my old Atari TT up and running, never put it back together after my last move.

I've got those old real Norton Utilities and books, along with Central Point
Tools and manuals. Norton Desktop.

You have a Merry Christmas too. If you feel like more reminiscing along
this thread, (e-mail address removed).

Ken

 

[Mark H]

If you are trying to "test" Vista before you permanently install it, then
simply install it without the PID on a separate partition. This will give
you a dual boot system (and all the associated problems) that will work for
30 days. If you don't like Vista, remove it. If you like it, remove the
"trial" version and perform a normal upgrade.