Installing new Components in an old Computer

[Paul]

Thanks once more Paul.

I tried to follow some of your suggestions today, especially about the
video card. I had 4 video cards ready and had drivers for two of them.
Guess what? None of the video cards fit. The end of the teeth on each
card was about 3/16" past the end of the slot the teeth were supposed to
go into. I loosened all the screws holding down the board and pushed it
back as far from the rear as possible but it made no difference. Seems
that the board was moved closer to the rear of the computer when
manufactured. I have had at least 6 motherboards in that box over the
years and I never had this problem.

I have also been trying to get a HD that I can try to install Win2K on.
I have a SATA and I managed to reduce the size of one partition on it to
114GB. Today I put the SATA drive into its external case and hooked it
up to Advent. I looked for the format and was offered NTSF and ExFat. I
chose NTSF and am hoping that this is the NTFS that accomodates Win2K.

Have a great weekend

Win2K can use NTFS or FAT32.

For FAT32, you can use the Ridgecrop FAT32 formatter,
when Windows refuses to handle a large FAT32 partition. The
Ridgecrop formatter can make FAT32 on a 2TB partition. But
it doesn't make sense to do that (wasteful). I think Windows has a
much lower limit, like 32GB or so for FAT32, which is also ridiculous.

NTFS has a few advantages. It supports attributes, and maybe someone
in an IT setting finds that a more secure way to run the OS. It can
handle filesizes larger than 4GB. And it is journaled, meaning it
handles abrupt termination better than FAT32 would.

You set the BIOS for the SATA to IDE, plug in the SATA drive,
and start installing.

*******

With regard to video cards, there are at least three types.

PCI - 133MB/sec (dog slow). Quite a common slot type, but your
worst choice.

AGP - Up to 2133MB/sec (anything over 1066MB/sec is plenty)

PCI Express - Up to 8000MB/sec (and perhaps soon, a bit more)

Your older video cards might have been AGP, and the AGP card won't fit
in a PCI Express x16 slot. And they don't make adapters.

In this photo, all three slot types are depicted. They have
different offsets on purpose. Brown is AGP and is furthest away.
Purple is PCI Express x16. And the four white ones are the slow
PCI slots.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0(l).jpg

I have one PCI video card. If you have a large bitmap, and
a tool that doesn't handle bitmaps properly, such that the bitmap
must be redrawn, movement of the image becomes jerky. So PCI
simply isn't a practical solution. It works most of the time,
but the first time it gets jerky, you're going to be annoyed.
So PCI isn't much of an option. The other two types are what
you want.

I got lucky on the last card I bought. BFG was going out of
business, and released a batch of warranty return replacement
cards. And I got one for $65, and it's been excellent.

I don't know exactly, what the last Win2K driver is from Nvidia.
You can click the "Products Supported" on this one, to get some
idea of what cards are supported. The 7900GT is on this
list, and 7900GT is PCI Express.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_94.24_2.html

You can also spend (waste) some time here, looking for the
"last driver". I think I've tried this in the past, and
it was pretty frustrating. At least one of these is
labeled Win2K, when it actually isn't.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_archive.html

So what you do, is identify the last driver provided
for an OS, get the "supported products" list, and then
find the best (available) card in the list. I got
really really lucky on mine, that I just happened to
plop onto the web page of the card I eventually bought.
When I first saw it, I was saying "but that card is
four years old - why are they selling that as a new
item ?". But when I checked into the details, the four
years old aspect also made it a good candidate for my dual
OS project.

If I'd bought a more recent and more powerful card, it would
have been a great WinXP card, but a poor Win2K card. The 7900GT
isn't the fastest card around, but it does play games in
both OSes.

This is an example of something else from that list, and
might be cheap, if you could find one. 6200 cards
come in all three flavors. You can still find PCI and AGP
ones, but the PCI Express one is likely to be long gone.
There is no reason to make it (since there are so many
other, cheap, PCI Express cards). This would be good
for a basic frame buffer, but not for gaming. A card like
this, spans a pretty wide range of Windows drivers.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=V6200-128P&cat=VCD

I tried a similar exercise with AMD, but I'm not making
much progress. Catalyst 6.2 *might* be the official last
driver for Win2K, but various people seem to be hacking
later drivers.

Paul

 

[Seum]

Win2K can use NTFS or FAT32.

For FAT32, you can use the Ridgecrop FAT32 formatter,
when Windows refuses to handle a large FAT32 partition. The
Ridgecrop formatter can make FAT32 on a 2TB partition. But
it doesn't make sense to do that (wasteful). I think Windows has a
much lower limit, like 32GB or so for FAT32, which is also ridiculous.

NTFS has a few advantages. It supports attributes, and maybe someone
in an IT setting finds that a more secure way to run the OS. It can
handle filesizes larger than 4GB. And it is journaled, meaning it
handles abrupt termination better than FAT32 would.

I agree that NTFS is usually better for many resons. However, the SATA
drive that I have has never had an OS on it. All three partitions are
NTFS, and the 114GB partition is the one I want to put Win2K on. I think
I should have done something to that partition, like adding a boot.ini
file. I attempted that today but, when I tried to use my floppy disk
with a Win2K bootdisk I discovered that the cable has 33 holes and there
is no socket on that ASUS board to accomodate them.

You set the BIOS for the SATA to IDE, plug in the SATA drive,
and start installing.

I did that today but not quite successfully. I went through the BIOS, as
you suggested, and I found an option labelled "Sata op. Mode. I had a
choice to go from SATA to AHCL or IDE mode and, of course, I selected
IDE. I waited for the computer to reboot, I opened the BIOS and found
under Advanced : "VT6330 IDE Boot RM - Enabled."

After rebooting the "new" computer I found "SATA1 not detected" and
Vt6330 1394/OE controller - Enabled and
Vt6330 IDE Boot Rom - Enabled.
Afterwards when I rebooted the "new" box I had the message:
Reboot and Select the Proper Boot device. It did that another time
afterwards and will continue unless I do something like preparing the
SATA drive. This brings me back to .ini again

*******

With regard to video cards, there are at least three types.

PCI - 133MB/sec (dog slow). Quite a common slot type, but your
worst choice.

AGP - Up to 2133MB/sec (anything over 1066MB/sec is plenty)

PCI Express - Up to 8000MB/sec (and perhaps soon, a bit more)

Your older video cards might have been AGP, and the AGP card won't fit
in a PCI Express x16 slot. And they don't make adapters.

You're quite right.

In this photo, all three slot types are depicted. They have
different offsets on purpose. Brown is AGP and is furthest away.
Purple is PCI Express x16. And the four white ones are the slow
PCI slots.

Lovely picture. My ASUS has 2 slots that are dark blue and white.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0(l).jpg

I have one PCI video card. If you have a large bitmap, and
a tool that doesn't handle bitmaps properly, such that the bitmap
must be redrawn, movement of the image becomes jerky. So PCI
simply isn't a practical solution. It works most of the time,
but the first time it gets jerky, you're going to be annoyed.
So PCI isn't much of an option. The other two types are what
you want.

No question that PCI Express is the way to go.

I got lucky on the last card I bought. BFG was going out of
business, and released a batch of warranty return replacement
cards. And I got one for $65, and it's been excellent.

I think this one looks good:
ASUSTEK EN8400GS Silent/P/512M GF 8400 GS - PCI Express 2.0 x 16 -
512MB DDR2. Has Digital Visual Interface (DVI) (HDCP)
http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=ECE1859090
Cost - €37.51 x 1.43 = $54 + shipping.

I also found another one:
Asus nVidia GeForce 8400GS Silent 512MB DDR2 VGA/DVI PCI-Express Video Card
* Mfr Part Number: EN8400GS SILENT/P/512M
* Chipset: GeForce 8400 GS
* Engine Clock: 567 MHz
* Video Memory: 512MB DDR2
* Memory Clock: 800 MHz
* Memory Interface: 64-bit
* Bus: PCI-Express 2.0 x16
* RAMDAC: 400 MHz
* Max. Resolution: 2560 x 1600
* Connectors: VGA, DVI-I
* Thermal: Fanless
* Support HDCP - High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection
* Support Microsoft DirectX 10, Shade Model 4.0 and OpenGL 2.0
* Built for Microsoft Windows Vista XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <------
* Package: Retail

Your criticism will be appreciated.

I don't know exactly, what the last Win2K driver is from Nvidia.
You can click the "Products Supported" on this one, to get some
idea of what cards are supported. The 7900GT is on this
list, and 7900GT is PCI Express.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_94.24_2.html

You can also spend (waste) some time here, looking for the
"last driver". I think I've tried this in the past, and
it was pretty frustrating. At least one of these is
labeled Win2K, when it actually isn't.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_archive.html

So what you do, is identify the last driver provided
for an OS, get the "supported products" list, and then
find the best (available) card in the list. I got
really really lucky on mine, that I just happened to
plop onto the web page of the card I eventually bought.
When I first saw it, I was saying "but that card is
four years old - why are they selling that as a new
item ?". But when I checked into the details, the four
years old aspect also made it a good candidate for my dual
OS project.

I can see your good points. There is lots of work to do.

If I'd bought a more recent and more powerful card, it would
have been a great WinXP card, but a poor Win2K card. The 7900GT
isn't the fastest card around, but it does play games in
both OSes.

Interesting how things become complicated.

This is an example of something else from that list, and
might be cheap, if you could find one. 6200 cards
come in all three flavors. You can still find PCI and AGP
ones, but the PCI Express one is likely to be long gone.
There is no reason to make it (since there are so many
other, cheap, PCI Express cards). This would be good
for a basic frame buffer, but not for gaming. A card like
this, spans a pretty wide range of Windows drivers.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=V6200-128P&cat=VCD

This also looks like a good one. I bought a lot of computer parts
from Geeks when I lived in CA and this one looks like a very good price
but the shipping would probably cost more than the item itself.

I tried a similar exercise with AMD, but I'm not making
much progress. Catalyst 6.2 *might* be the official last
driver for Win2K, but various people seem to be hacking
later drivers.

Paul

Thanks again Paul.

After all that I am exhausted. Still trying though.

Have a great weekend

 

[RayLopez99]

NTFS has a few advantages. It supports attributes, and maybe someone
in an IT setting finds that a more secure way to run the OS. It can
handle filesizes larger than 4GB. And it is journaled, meaning it
handles abrupt termination better than FAT32 would.

Are most modern SATA HDs journaled? Can you make an unjournaled HD
journaled? Is there s/w for that?

Thanks in advance,

RL

 

[Seum]

Check the feature set section of the manual, as the floppy interface
could be missing. It is considered a "legacy interface", even though
people using Win2K or WinXP might need it for F6 driver install. There
are ways around that, but it's a nuisance.

I haven't found out much from the printed manual. I'll try a download of
this manual, if I can find it, and then I can use the search engine to
look for the floppy. The ASUS web site seems weird to me. Have you ever
tried the "Drivers and Download" section? The first step is "Model
Automatic Detection" as if I needed to analyze the motherboard of the
computer I am using!!!

On modern chipsets, the IDE ribbon cable has been removed. (Same argument
as with the floppy.)

Instead, the manufacturer installs an extra chip. That drives the 40 pin
IDE connector. The motherboard manufacturers consider the IDE ribbon
cable to be important enough, for them to negate the removal done
by the Northbridge/Southbridge maker.

It could be your VT6330 controls the IDE connector, while your Southbridge
controls all the SATA ports. If your hard drive is an IDE ribbon cable
drive, then the VT6330 settings would matter, and unless it's an IDE/RAID
type device, it'll be IDE naturally.

Since I still can't get access to my IDE HD, the only other possibility
is the SATA drive that is connected via a SATA cable to the motherboard.

The SATA ports on the other hand, support IDE/AHCI/RAID and IDE can have
two modes in some cases (like Enhanced or Compatible). Try for IDE in any
case.

The only IDE connector on the ASUS board is the usual 40 pin and my DVD
drive works from that.

Even though the disk would be SATA, the IDE setting provides an
"emulation" to fool the OS into thinking it is a ribbon cable drive.
Notice how the motherboard even lists drives with terms like "Master" and
"Slave". And the OS claims the SATA interface is in UDMA100 or UDMA133
mode, when that is not the case. SATA runs at 150 or 300, so a report
of 100 or 133 is bogus. This is all part of providing compatibility so
older OSes can work. For many motherboards, even ones new today, it is
possible Windows 98 could work with the disk interface, but fails
when it runs into other, less standard stuff.

Very interesting.

You were right about the above 2 cards - both 8400. Found a 6200 one below.

But the missing step, is checking the NVidia driver download page.
There is no Win2K driver for an 8400 GS. Windows has its VESA
driver, but that isn't good enough. Without a real driver, it's
hard to get full resolution. And your LCD monitor will only
look good, if driven at exactly the "native" resolution.

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us


While you're on the NVidia download page, check for a 6200 driver.

If I look for a 6200, I end up on this driver page. Win2K driver.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_94.24_2.html

Paul

Thanks to you, I have had some local success:

http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=ECE1843074

It has the 6200 and Win2K included.

The IDE scene seems to be coming back to me. If I use the BIOS to
switch another couple of SATA connections to IDEs, I should then be able
to get connector units with a SATA connector on one end and an IDE
connector on the other. That's a guess and, if that works, I won't be
short of IDE connector points.

My main task now is the BIOS settings :-(

Thanks again Paul

 

[Paul]

Are most modern SATA HDs journaled? Can you make an unjournaled HD
journaled? Is there s/w for that?

Thanks in advance,

RL

Journaling is a function of the file system. NTFS has it.
Possibly EXT3 or later has it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journaling_file_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

Paul

 

[Paul]

I haven't found out much from the printed manual. I'll try a download of
this manual, if I can find it, and then I can use the search engine to
look for the floppy. The ASUS web site seems weird to me. Have you ever
tried the "Drivers and Download" section? The first step is "Model
Automatic Detection" as if I needed to analyze the motherboard of the
computer I am using!!!

You use "Model Name Search", in the middle. Shorten the name to "M4A88TD"
and test with that. A list of matching name(s) will show up and you click
the USB3 one.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3759/namesearch.gif

You may be able to get the manual here. This is a direct link.

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socketAM3/M4A88TD-V-EVO-USB3/E5888_M4A88TD-V-EVO-USB3_V2.zip

Normally, the files come from Akamai hosting, to provide decent transfer
rates. But Asus also falls back to their own in-house file serving on
occasion, so performance will vary a bit.

In an emergency, you can resort to their old FTP server, which
is also regularly updated. At one time, they had many of these, and now
there are very few. The files are not in one place, so unless you
know the structure a bit, using this is a waste of time. But at
least for user manuals, you can find what you need relatively quickly.
But if you needed a LAN driver, be prepared to spend half the day
looking for it this way. Only the BIOS files and user manuals
are kept in the "main" directory for each motherboard.

ftp://ftp.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socketAM3/M4A88TD-V-EVO-USB3/

E5888_M4A88TD-V-EVO-USB3_V2.zip 14641 KB <--- example motherboard manual, PDF

M4A88TD-V-EVO-USB3-ASUS-1702.zip 959 KB <--- example BIOS update

Before you can read the manual, you need to unzip it. Before you
can use the BIOS file, it needs unzipping as well. When unzipping
a BIOS, be careful to verify the resulting file size, against the
declaration in the manual as to the size of the flash chip. Some
unzip tools are too aggressive, and they "chew into" the BIOS
file itself, and decompress the first segment and store that
as the resulting file, which is wrong. If the motherboard
has an 8 megabit Flash Chip on the motherboard, a properly
decompressed BIOS file would be 1 megabyte in size (as files
are in megabytes).

Since I still can't get access to my IDE HD, the only other possibility
is the SATA drive that is connected via a SATA cable to the motherboard.

If the motherboard has a single ribbon cable port, it can support two
storage devices. One will be your CDROM, the other can be a hard
drive. That is sufficient to start an install.

On the ribbon cable, there are two connectors on the end. You can jumper
both storage devices to cable select and use an 80 wire cable. Both
devices should be detected that way. (An alternative, is to make one
Master and one Slave. For greatest convenience, you put the Master
on the end connector, so that if the Slave is removed, the Master
jumper doesn't need to be changed.)

**********************************************************************

Mobo ---- 80_wire_cable ---------- X -------------- Cable_Select

Mobo ---- 80_wire_cable ---------- Cable_Select --- Cable_Select


Mobo ---- 80_wire_cable ---------- Cable_Select --- X <--- CRC errors!!!
Do not use!!!

**********************************************************************

Mobo ---- 40_or_80_wire_cable ----- X -------------- Master

Mobo ---- 40_or_80_wire_cable ----- Slave ---------- Master

( Mobo ---- 40_or_80_wire_cable ----- Master --------- Slave )


Mobo ---- 40_or_80_wire_cable ----- Anything ------- X <--- CRC errors!!!
Do not use!!!

(The third option is less convenient, when removing the middle drive
for a quick reconfiguration. I would use the first or second setups.)

(While 40 wire cables work, I recommend 80 wire cables when available.
80 wire cables support higher transfer rates, where appropriate.)

**********************************************************************

In the BIOS setup, you can enter the "Boot" menu, and arrange optical
and hard drives in order. For example, I put my CDROM drive above
the hard drive in the order. If the CDROM tray is empty, the BIOS
"falls through" to whatever hard drive is next in the boot list.

Occasionally, when installing an OS, you miss the importance of boot
order. Some installer discs are stupid enough to start all over again,
unless you adjust the boot order just before the motherboard does an
intermediate boot during the installation process. If what you're seeing
doesn't make sense, then chances are the wrong "thing" is booting,
half way through the install.

In other words, you may set the boot order, before starting the install.
And sometimes, need to enter the BIOS half way through the install,
to ensure the right thing is booting.

The IDE scene seems to be coming back to me. If I use the BIOS to
switch another couple of SATA connections to IDEs, I should then be able
to get connector units with a SATA connector on one end and an IDE
connector on the other. That's a guess and, if that works, I won't be
short of IDE connector points.

My main task now is the BIOS settings :-(

Thanks again Paul

If you owned a ribbon cable optical drive, and a SATA hard drive, you
can use those without any fancy adapters.

Connect the optical drive to the ribbon cable, placing the drive on the
end connector. The optical drive will work jumpered to Cable Select,
if the cable is 80 wire. The optical drive will work jumpered to
Master, with either ribbon cable type. The center connector is only
filled when a second drive is present.

The SATA drive connects direct to the motherboard with one of those
thin (usually red) SATA cables.

In the BIOS, you find the SATA settings part of the screen, and
set the SATA port to IDE. This is likely to be the default anyway.
The main advantage of this setting, is most OSes from the last ten
years, have a built in driver for it.

Onchip SATA Speed [Auto]
Onchip SATA Channel [Enabled]
SATA Port 1-4 [IDE]

The reason this works, is the "SATA emulation" uses hardware registers
at well-known address offsets. An older OS, thinks it is talking to
actual IDE ribbon cable hardware. There is a "command register"
section and a "control register" section. The driver can't tell the
difference between a standard IDE port register set, and a
"SATA Emulation" register set.

I know you aren't interested, but this is where I first saw this
documented. See page 11 "... Controller Basic Attributes".
Since only Intel chose to document this, I can't say with any
certainty, how many other chipset makers do it this way. But
I presume that's how they make it compatible.

http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/manual/252671.pdf?wapkw=(252671)

*******

Yes, there are also SATA<-->IDE adapters available. But these are
only of interest in certain special circumstances.

This physically changes the connector on the SATA drive. I own
one of these, and use it on older systems.

http://ca.startech.com/product/IDE2SAT-25in-and-35in-40-Pin-Male-IDE-to-SATA-Adapter-Converter

You use those, when you want to take one of those sweet 125MB/sec
SATA drives, and connect it to your ancient ribbon-cable-only
motherboards. Half my motherboards here, fit that description.
Since IDE drives are no longer being manufactured, if a person
owns a ten year old computer, using an adapter like that
may be the only way, in the future, to connect a replacement
hard drive. So if the drive croaks on your old computer,
you may well need one of those. In addition, you may need to
limit the geometry of the drive, so the ancient BIOS can
work with it. My first motherboard is limited to 120GB drives,
and only the last BIOS update gave that capability. As originally
shipped, my motherboard only supported 60GB drives. If I wanted
to buy a $50 500GB SATA drive, and use it with that motherboard,
I'd need the $25 adapter, plus I'd need to monkey with the drive
and "clip" the capacity below 120GB.

Your situation is not similar. You can plug a SATA drive into the
SATA port of M4A88TD, any size up to and including 2TB, and use it.
By using "IDE" mode for the SATA port in the BIOS, an older OS
like Win2K can install on the Southbridge SATA port drive.
Win2K SP2 only supports 28 bit LBA (up to 137 GB or 128 GiB),
so you'd be especially careful with larger drives there.
If you have a Win2K SP4 slipstreamed install disc, you can
connect the 2TB drive without any worries. SP4 should be
ready for 48 bit LBA.

There is no need to manually insert a "boot.ini" file for any of
this. The OS installer will do that for you. You can "prep" a
disk, by putting sized partitions on it, but the last time
I used it, Win2K seemed to have all the possibilities covered.
A new disk probably has a single partition on it, which
will get erased when you define the partition structure
in the installer. (If not, post back...)

HTH,
Paul

 

[GMAN]

Check the feature set section of the manual, as the floppy interface
could be missing. It is considered a "legacy interface", even though
people using Win2K or WinXP might need it for F6 driver install. There
are ways around that, but it's a nuisance.

a $10 USB floppy drive for just such need is not a nuisance.

 

[Seum]

[snip]

And your LCD monitor will only
look good, if driven at exactly the "native" resolution.

or a submultiple, like 800*600 on a 1600*1200 monitor, or 1024*768 or
a 2048*1536 monitor.

[snip]

Paul

Hello Expert Gary,

Since we are looking at my SONY SDM-HX75, the max resolution is
1280x1024, but even that is comfortable for me.

Another item I have been thinking about is the advantage, if any, of
using the digital signal.

DATA:
Input signal format: RGB Operating frequency:
Horizontal:

28-80 kHz (analog RGB)
28-64 kHz (digital RGB)
Vertical:
48-75 Hz (analog RGB)
60 Hz (digital RGB)

Input signal levels:

Analog RGB video signal
0.7 Vp-p, 75 Ohms, positive.
Sync signal:
TTL level, 2.2 Ohms + or -
(separate horizontal and vertical, or composite sync.)
Digital RGB (DVI) signal:
TMDS (single link)

There is a socket for the digital cable on the monitor but none on the
computer. I suspect that there is a card somewhere to be attached to the
computer to provide for the second socket. The plugs on the cable have
two 3x3 pin groups with a space between them. In addition at the end of
both plugs there is a narrow blade of about 32mm (1/8")wide and the same
height as the pins.

Layout: 3x3 space 3x3 space - <- the blade

Comments please.

Thanks

 

[Paul]

[snip]

And your LCD monitor will only
look good, if driven at exactly the "native" resolution.

or a submultiple, like 800*600 on a 1600*1200 monitor, or 1024*768 or
a 2048*1536 monitor.

[snip]

Paul

Hello Expert Gary,

Since we are looking at my SONY SDM-HX75, the max resolution is
1280x1024, but even that is comfortable for me.

Another item I have been thinking about is the advantage, if any, of
using the digital signal.

DATA:
Input signal format: RGB Operating frequency:
Horizontal:

28-80 kHz (analog RGB)
28-64 kHz (digital RGB)
Vertical:
48-75 Hz (analog RGB)
60 Hz (digital RGB)

Input signal levels:

Analog RGB video signal
0.7 Vp-p, 75 Ohms, positive.
Sync signal:
TTL level, 2.2 Ohms + or -
(separate horizontal and vertical, or composite sync.)
Digital RGB (DVI) signal:
TMDS (single link)

There is a socket for the digital cable on the monitor but none on the
computer. I suspect that there is a card somewhere to be attached to the
computer to provide for the second socket. The plugs on the cable have
two 3x3 pin groups with a space between them. In addition at the end of
both plugs there is a narrow blade of about 32mm (1/8")wide and the same
height as the pins.

Layout: 3x3 space 3x3 space - <- the blade

Comments please.

Thanks

This PCI Express version of the 6200 has a digital connector. An add-in
video card can give you digital. (Make sure to pick a card which
matches the available connectors on the motherboard, like PCI Express.)

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=V6200-128P&cat=VCD

There is another view of the faceplate on a similar card here.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-125-190-01.jpg

Your monitor has "D-sub 15-pin HD x 2 and DVI-D x 1". Your motherboard
may have analog, but using an add-in card would give you digital, if
you need it.

http://www.sonystyle.com.hk/ss/product/pc/sdm_hx75_bc_e.jsp

The difference between analog and digital, may become apparent at
really high resolution values. When an analog cable has reflections,
it translates into image degradation. The digital cable can give
a closer-to-perfect transfer. But at 1280x1024, you might have
trouble telling the difference.

If you make the digital cable long enough, eventually you see
"colored snow" on the screen of the monitor, as the amplitude is
becoming too low to be picked up properly. But with ordinary lengths
of cable, the picture should be perfect (perfect data transfer between
the faceplate of the video card and the input connector on the monitor).

Paul

 

[Seum]

[snip]

And your LCD monitor will only
look good, if driven at exactly the "native" resolution.

or a submultiple, like 800*600 on a 1600*1200 monitor, or 1024*768 or
a 2048*1536 monitor.

[snip]

Paul

Hello Expert Gary,

Since we are looking at my SONY SDM-HX75, the max resolution is
1280x1024, but even that is comfortable for me.

Another item I have been thinking about is the advantage, if any, of
using the digital signal.

DATA:
Input signal format: RGB Operating frequency:
Horizontal:

28-80 kHz (analog RGB)
28-64 kHz (digital RGB)
Vertical:
48-75 Hz (analog RGB)
60 Hz (digital RGB)

Input signal levels:

Analog RGB video signal
0.7 Vp-p, 75 Ohms, positive.
Sync signal:
TTL level, 2.2 Ohms + or -
(separate horizontal and vertical, or composite sync.)
Digital RGB (DVI) signal:
TMDS (single link)

There is a socket for the digital cable on the monitor but none on the
computer. I suspect that there is a card somewhere to be attached to
the computer to provide for the second socket. The plugs on the cable
have two 3x3 pin groups with a space between them. In addition at the
end of both plugs there is a narrow blade of about 32mm (1/8")wide and
the same height as the pins.

Layout: 3x3 space 3x3 space - <- the blade

Comments please.

Thanks

This PCI Express version of the 6200 has a digital connector. An add-in
video card can give you digital. (Make sure to pick a card which
matches the available connectors on the motherboard, like PCI Express.)

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=V6200-128P&cat=VCD

There is another view of the faceplate on a similar card here.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-125-190-01.jpg

I have a card almost identical that that one - Gigabyte GV-N66128DP
but, unfortunately, it won't fit into the slot. Maybe I should make
9 more holes in the base of the case, 1/4" further inwards, and tap the
lot. That should move the board back. But, would that help what I get
from the card? There's a picture of my card with here with a
pathetically small image.
http://www2010.gigabyte.com/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=1247
and another:
http://reviews.cnet.com/graphics-cards/gigabyte-gv-n66128dp-graphics/1707-8902_7-31652608.html

I did not see any mention of PCI or PCIe, etc!!!

Your monitor has "D-sub 15-pin HD x 2 and DVI-D x 1". Your motherboard
may have analog, but using an add-in card would give you digital, if
you need it.

The plug on the digital cable is a perfect fit for the card mentioned
above.

http://www.sonystyle.com.hk/ss/product/pc/sdm_hx75_bc_e.jsp

The difference between analog and digital, may become apparent at
really high resolution values. When an analog cable has reflections,
it translates into image degradation. The digital cable can give
a closer-to-perfect transfer. But at 1280x1024, you might have
trouble telling the difference.

That should be interesting.

If you make the digital cable long enough, eventually you see
"colored snow" on the screen of the monitor, as the amplitude is
becoming too low to be picked up properly. But with ordinary lengths
of cable, the picture should be perfect (perfect data transfer between
the faceplate of the video card and the input connector on the monitor).

Paul

This is where I am likely to buy one, if the world approves
http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=ECE1843074

I am struggling with the floppy drive. No connector from that 34 pin
floppy ribbon to a SATA, or to a USB connection point. I'll struggle on.

Thanks again Paul for all your endeavors.

 

[Paul]

Gary H wrote:

[snip]

And your LCD monitor will only
look good, if driven at exactly the "native" resolution.

or a submultiple, like 800*600 on a 1600*1200 monitor, or 1024*768 or
a 2048*1536 monitor.

[snip]

Paul

Hello Expert Gary,

Since we are looking at my SONY SDM-HX75, the max resolution is
1280x1024, but even that is comfortable for me.

Another item I have been thinking about is the advantage, if any, of
using the digital signal.

DATA:
Input signal format: RGB Operating frequency:
Horizontal:

28-80 kHz (analog RGB)
28-64 kHz (digital RGB)
Vertical:
48-75 Hz (analog RGB)
60 Hz (digital RGB)

Input signal levels:

Analog RGB video signal
0.7 Vp-p, 75 Ohms, positive.
Sync signal:
TTL level, 2.2 Ohms + or -
(separate horizontal and vertical, or composite sync.)
Digital RGB (DVI) signal:
TMDS (single link)

There is a socket for the digital cable on the monitor but none on
the computer. I suspect that there is a card somewhere to be attached
to the computer to provide for the second socket. The plugs on the
cable have two 3x3 pin groups with a space between them. In addition
at the end of both plugs there is a narrow blade of about 32mm
(1/8")wide and the same height as the pins.

Layout: 3x3 space 3x3 space - <- the blade

Comments please.

Thanks

This PCI Express version of the 6200 has a digital connector. An add-in
video card can give you digital. (Make sure to pick a card which
matches the available connectors on the motherboard, like PCI Express.)

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=V6200-128P&cat=VCD

There is another view of the faceplate on a similar card here.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-125-190-01.jpg

I have a card almost identical that that one - Gigabyte GV-N66128DP
but, unfortunately, it won't fit into the slot. Maybe I should make
9 more holes in the base of the case, 1/4" further inwards, and tap the
lot. That should move the board back. But, would that help what I get
from the card? There's a picture of my card with here with a
pathetically small image.
http://www2010.gigabyte.com/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=1247

and another:
http://reviews.cnet.com/graphics-cards/gigabyte-gv-n66128dp-graphics/1707-8902_7-31652608.html


I did not see any mention of PCI or PCIe, etc!!!

They make PCI Express versions of 6600 family. Maybe you could get
these on Ebay.

http://www.gpureview.com/videocards.php

"GeForce 6600 GT PCI-E"

"GeForce 6600 PCI-E"

"GeForce 6600 LE PCI-E"

Those might have the necessary Win2K driver. You can also get the driver
from the Nvidia site.

The plug on the digital cable is a perfect fit for the card mentioned
above.


That should be interesting.



This is where I am likely to buy one, if the world approves
http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=ECE1843074

I am struggling with the floppy drive. No connector from that 34 pin
floppy ribbon to a SATA, or to a USB connection point. I'll struggle on.

Thanks again Paul for all your endeavors.

But this is AGP! You don't have an AGP slot.

http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=ECE1843074

Keep looking -

Criteria

1) Video card should have PCI Express connector (large x16 type is best)
2) Win2K driver. the 6200 or 6600 are OK. I used a 7900 GT which you're
unlikely to find. There could be used 6600 family cards around
with PCI Express connectors, and DVI on the faceplate.

Example of an Ebay card.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PNY-Tech-Verto-...398?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6762442e

With an Ebay card, you might keep an eye out for a third party
cooler. If the fan is failing on the Ebay card, you can
unbolt the cooling assembly and use a third party one.
At the time, it was hard to find a cooler for a 6600 family
AGP card (due to the HSI chip getting in the way), but easier
to find a cooler for a PCI Express 6600 card. (Note - doing
research on these is hard. Notice 6600 GT is not in the
list.) If the fan is still good on the Ebay card, that's
great. But having something to replace the fan with, is
also a good idea. This is a combination heatsink and fan,
and you put some thermal paste on the GPU, and then bolt
this to it.

http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/23/accelero-l2-pro.html?c=2182

If you were shopping for a cooler for the card four years
ago, there might have been more choices.

If the fan on all video cards was modular, you'd just replace
the fan and end of story. Some tiny cooler fans, are in fact
modular - they're just hard to find new. Some fans use the
heatsink as part of the body, and may not be user modifiable.
In which case, the quickest solution might be a whole
heatsink/fan combo.

You can also find coolers (with heatpipes) with no fan.
These can have a regular case fan mounted next to them.
The 6600 GT is cooled by this one. You'd purchase
a 12V 80mm square fan and mount it next to the cooler.
Convection cooling alone may not suffice, in which case
a regular fan may help. I even use a regular fan next
to my current video card, just to help it.

http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/24/accelero-s1-rev.-2.html?c=2182

Paul

 

[Chris S.]

You are simply trying to put an AGP card into a PCI-E slot!

 

[Nobody > (Revisited)]

I have a card almost identical that that one - Gigabyte GV-N66128DP
but, unfortunately, it won't fit into the slot. Maybe I should make
9 more holes in the base of the case, 1/4" further inwards, and tap the
lot. That should move the board back. But, would that help what I get
from the card?

NO!!!

The spacing between the slot (socket) and the back edge of the
motherboard is INTENTIONAL. It prevents you from installing the wrong
"flavor" of card.

--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum

 

[Seum]

You are simply trying to put an AGP card into a PCI-E slot!

Thanks Chris.

It seems that I have to get back to the old alphabet.

 

[Seum]

NO!!!

The spacing between the slot (socket) and the back edge of the
motherboard is INTENTIONAL. It prevents you from installing the wrong
"flavor" of card.

Thanks Sumbody

You have saved my card from disaster and it offers its thanks to you

 

[RayLopez99]

Journaling is a function of the file system. NTFS has it.
Possibly EXT3 or later has it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journaling_file_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

    Paul

Yes but my question was whether journaling is done automatically by
NTFS file system Operating Systems or whether you have to instruct
them to.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

You are simply trying to put an AGP card into a PCI-E slot!    

Yes, and everybody who responded to this Third World clown has been
trolled.

RL

 

[Paul]

Yes but my question was whether journaling is done automatically by
NTFS file system Operating Systems or whether you have to instruct
them to.

RL

As far as I know, it's automatic. I couldn't find an article
with the necessary information.

It can be fouled up though.

For example, if you do a "dirty shutdown" on an NTFS computer,
just turn the power off in the middle of a session. Then,
turn the power on and boot a Linux LiveCD. When Linux touches
the NTFS volume, in can invalidate the transaction log. Then,
if you boot Windows five minutes later, CHKDSK will notice the
transaction log isn't consistent with the state of the volume
and throw it away (at the cost of perhaps preventing a nice
neat recovery of recently written files). So I've heard, that
being careless with NTFS can disable the journal. But
otherwise, if you had a Windows machine, and did critical accesses
to the file system with Windows, you should get the maximum
benefit from any log kept. So if you were running Windows,
turned off the power in mid-session, you'd be best advised
to boot into Windows next, to give the file system driver
a chance to clean up, one way or another.

I'm also not certain, exactly what Linux does with the journal.
Whether it journals the writes it's doing (so Windows could
read the journal on the next boot). Or whether Linux has
the ability to do any repairs. Since Linux seems not to have
"CHKDSK capability", i.e. can't do repairs, that would suggest
it won't look at the transaction log when the file system is
started. So just a guess would be, perhaps Linux doesn't
do things quite the way Windows does. While the Linux NTFS driver
is pretty good (no complaints here), there might still be
some corner conditions not handled as well as in Windows.

As far as I know, the only contribution towards CHHDSK that
Linux can make, is Linux can set the "dirty" bit, forcing
a CHKDSK to run the next time Windows boots. But as for
repair capabilities, I don't think it has any of significance.

The feature set of NTFS, has changed with the more recent
versions of Windows, but as far as I know, the new features
are "layered on top" of the existing infrastructure. So the
engine at the bottom remains the same. Doing it that way,
might mean less chance of damage, if you alternated between
booting Win2K and Windows 7.

Paul

 

[RayLopez99]

As far as I know, it's automatic. I couldn't find an article
with the necessary information.

It can be fouled up though.

For example, if you do a "dirty shutdown" on an NTFS computer,
just turn the power off in the middle of a session. Then,
turn the power on and boot a Linux LiveCD. When Linux touches
the NTFS volume, in can invalidate the transaction log. Then,
if you boot Windows five minutes later, CHKDSK will notice the
transaction log isn't consistent with the state of the volume
and throw it away (at the cost of perhaps preventing a nice
neat recovery of recently written files). So I've heard, that
being careless with NTFS can disable the journal. But
otherwise, if you had a Windows machine, and did critical accesses
to the file system with Windows, you should get the maximum
benefit from any log kept. So if you were running Windows,
turned off the power in mid-session, you'd be best advised
to boot into Windows next, to give the file system driver
a chance to clean up, one way or another.

I'm also not certain, exactly what Linux does with the journal.
Whether it journals the writes it's doing (so Windows could
read the journal on the next boot). Or whether Linux has
the ability to do any repairs. Since Linux seems not to have
"CHKDSK capability", i.e. can't do repairs, that would suggest
it won't look at the transaction log when the file system is
started. So just a guess would be, perhaps Linux doesn't
do things quite the way Windows does. While the Linux NTFS driver
is pretty good (no complaints here), there might still be
some corner conditions not handled as well as in Windows.

As far as I know, the only contribution towards CHHDSK that
Linux can make, is Linux can set the "dirty" bit, forcing
a CHKDSK to run the next time Windows boots. But as for
repair capabilities, I don't think it has any of significance.

The feature set of NTFS, has changed with the more recent
versions of Windows, but as far as I know, the new features
are "layered on top" of the existing infrastructure. So the
engine at the bottom remains the same. Doing it that way,
might mean less chance of damage, if you alternated between
booting Win2K and Windows 7.

    Paul

Thanks Paul--I had exactly what you describe above happen when I tried
a "LiveCD" distro of Linux. I ended up having to run Chkdsk
repeatedly before Windows XP would boot. It was scary--I thought for
a while I'd have to reinstal Windows--because Windows would not even
boot in Safe Mode (it would keep resetting). I ended up using a Bart
PE type util (I think it was Bart) to do the Chkdsk, and that solved
the 'corrupted by Linux' HD.

RL

 

[Alan Mackenzie]

Thanks Paul--I had exactly what you describe above happen when I tried
a "LiveCD" distro of Linux.

Which distribution would that be, and how old was it? Also, what were
you doing deliberately powering off your PC without shutting it down?
And with your cynicism, why did you not reboot into Windows first, as
Paul suggested?

I ended up having to run Chkdsk repeatedly before Windows XP would
boot.

That doesn't say much for the quality of Chkdsk. You'd think it'd either
work, or the filesystem would be beyond saving, somthing which doesn't
happen with Linux filesystems.

Anyway, why didn't you use a "LiveCD" to boot into Windows?

It was scary--I thought for a while I'd have to reinstal Windows ...

Surely Windows users are used to this. As an experienced Windowser, you
will surely have your OS in its own partition, so that you can reinstall
without losing your data, and without having to reload the data from the
backup you haven't made.

... --because Windows would not even boot in Safe Mode (it would
keep resetting).

You should be raising this in a Windows group, not a Linux one.

I ended up using a Bart PE type util (I think it was
Bart) to do the Chkdsk, and that solved the 'corrupted by Linux' HD.

Whatever that is. But are you saying that the standard Windows Chkdsk is
inferior to a third party product?

Anyhow, your account of your experience becomes inconsistent here. You
either recovered after running Chkdsk repeatedly or you needed Bart.
Which one was it?

To be honest, I've some doubt about the veracity of the entire story.