Inconsistent Nothing

S

Stephany Young

If you were allowed to learn Latin with any pronunciation other than the
correct one then your Latin teacher should be jailed.

An "a" in Latin is pronounced the same whether you come from Germany,
Timbuktu or Mars.

It is pronounced as the short "a" sound as in the English cat, axe, etc.
 
C

Codemonkey

Cor,

As far as I know (not very far ;-) the number of characters in "" depends on
how the string is implemented. I haven't a clue how a string is implemented
internally in .net. I'd be happy if anybody wants to take the time and
expain it properly.

In older implementations when a string was an array of bytes (buffer), the
array might have 10 elements, but if the first character is Chr(0), then the
string should be treated as if it contained no characters i.e. Its size in
bytes would be 10, but its length in characters would be 0 (or 1 if the null
character is counted in the particular implementation).
 
C

Cor

Herfried,

Saterday night, but is the pronounce from the Italian character a (and our
part of Europe) different than from Latin?

I am curious.
Cor
 
H

Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]

Hello,

Stephany Young said:
If you were allowed to learn Latin with any pronunciation other
than the correct one then your Latin teacher should be jailed.

An "a" in Latin is pronounced the same whether you come
from Germany, Timbuktu or Mars.

It is pronounced as the short "a" sound as in the English cat, axe, etc.

Thanks for the info---I didn't know that it's pronounced that way in
English.
 
H

Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]

Cor said:
Saterday night, but is the pronounce from the Italian character a
(and our part of Europe) different than from Latin?

The German "a" character is pronounced similar to the Latin "a" and the
Italian "a".
 
C

Cor

Hi Codemonkey,
I was trying some weeks ago somethings with Strings in the discussion about
"Nothing" and as far as I remember me, the behaviour was like you wrote.
In older implementations when a string was an array of bytes (buffer), the
array might have 10 elements, but if the first character is Chr(0), then the
string should be treated as if it contained no characters i.e. Its size in
bytes would be 10, but its length in characters would be 0 (or 1 if the null
character is counted in the particular implementation).

But that is of course very easy to test for yourself too.

Cor
 
C

Cor

Hi Herfried,
The German "a" character is pronounced similar to the Latin "a" and the
Italian "a".

Dutch has the same "a" as Italian and German.

But the words of Stephany made, gives me real the idea that maybe Latin is a
better language for programming than English.
Unreachable but not false.

Cor
 
S

Stephany Young

No Cor - Latin would be a much worse language for programming than English.

As it is a dead language, Latin does not have words for the multitude of
concepts and techniques that have been developed in recent years.

English is perfectly fine for programming. Dr. Alan Turing thought so and
Admiral Grace Hopper thought so too.
 
C

Cor

Stephany,

English (like Dutch) have so many words that has two or more meanings.
But I think we have to do with it, I don't know at the moment a language
that would be better, therefore I was curious if Latin it could be.

Thank you
Cor
 
S

Stephany Young

What is it, precisely, about English that makes it difficult to use when
writing software?
 
H

Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]

Stephany Young said:
No Cor - Latin would be a much worse language for
programming than English.

I think it doesn't matter if the keywords of the language are Latin or
English.
As it is a dead language, Latin does not have words for
the multitude of concepts and techniques that have been
developed in recent years.

ACK. Words for naming classes will be missing in the Latin language.
English is perfectly fine for programming. Dr. Alan
Turing thought so and Admiral Grace Hopper thought so too.

I remember that Microsoft tried to translate Excel's "IF" and so on to
German. Really ugly.
 
C

Cor

Stephany,
I would not say difficult.
But think about words as Nothing, Empty, Null, Zero, No value.
For someone who does not speak or a few words English, those words are all
the same.
And I have seen long discussion in this newsgroup about those words.

The things Herfried wrote are keywords, if "IF" is written as "IF" or as a
"?" would be for nobody a problem, if he started with that the first time,
that are maybe maximum 70 words and even if "IF" was "KN" and "Or" was "PX"
it would not be a big problem for people who had not used them before. For
people who are used to "IF" it's a problem when a word in their native
language is used.

But let's stop this thread
It becomes scientific and I have my answer about Latin.

OK?
Cor
 
B

Bob Day

Just simply not true. The default of a string is Nothing. That is very
different than "". Read my original post for documentation on this.

Bob Day
 
B

Bob Day

Yes, I agree with all of that. My point, however, is that the documentation
around the word Nothing does not match what it does. That, in my book, is a
bug.

There are 3 pieces VS 2003, VB.NET & MS SQL. All Microsoft; all latest
versions. It is very hard to deal with these three pieces interpreting
Nothing differently, as they do. Dim x as Boolean = nothing is false in
VB.NET but translates to DBNull when a row is added to SQL. Does that make
any sense in any scenario? Not in my humble opinion.

Bob Day
 
C

Codemonkey

Sorry to add to an already long-running thread.

In my humble opinion:

"Nothing" means no value
"DBNull" means no value

Boolean can only have two states (True or False) and so cannot represent
*not* having a value. Instead "False" is used as it is the default for that
datatype.

In fact, any *value type* cannot intrinsically represent *not* having a
value, therefore when assigned to "nothing", the default value for that type
is used instead.

"Nothing" is interpreted by the DBMS as "DBNull", but "False" is interpreted
as "False"

It's pretty unambiguous IMHO.
 
F

Fergus Cooney

Hi Bob,

I've stayed out of this interesting thread because every time that I've
visited, one or more messages gets deleted when I click on it. This is the
first time that I've seen the thread intact!!

I agree with your distaste of the word Nothing when used with ValueTypes.
I'd even go as far as saying that it should be illegal to assign Nothing to a
ValueType. I would much prefer the use of the word Default - but they're
already using that for Default Properties, dammit!

Just one example:
Dim Somewhere As Point = Nothing 'Nothing means centre or origin.
The above doesn't put Somewhere outside the designated space - it puts it
smack in the middle at {0, 0}. That's hardly Nothing (or perhaps I should say
nowhere).

But while it sounds stupid to assign Nothing to a Boolean or a Point, I
agree with everyone else that for objects it makes perfect sense for Nothing
to mean 'no object'. The default type for an object variable <is> 'no
object' - how could it be anything else? This has to include Strings, too, for
they are reference types.

With the database values it seems unintuitive because while a Boolean can
only have True or False, a Boolean database column can be DbNull, True or
False. But that's because of the shortcuts in talking about it. A Boolean
database column isn't, and <cannot be>, a Boolean. It sounds as if I'm talking
in contradictions but 'Boolean database column' is just a convenient way of
saying 'a database column that, if it contains <anything>, will contain a
Boolean'. Hence DbNull for when it doesn't.

That's my two centimes.

Regards,
Fergus
 

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