Important warning !

[Linuxgirl]

If I'm reading you right, your thinking was that if Microsoft has
managed to create a firewall which handles outbound as well as
inbound traffic, your sense of this particular CoolWebSearch issue is
that it is enough to make it imperative that Microsoft provide that
technology free to all Windows users.
They definitely have such technology, and in a consumer-friendly
version, as evidenced by the OneCare website descriptions.

They haven't announced pricing for OneCare.

It looks like similar firewall capabilities will be included in
Vista, but there's some question about that.

There are a number of vendors still providing free firewall software
for Windows and including outbound traffic blocking.

I guess I'm unconvinced about the real imperative here. I agree it
would be nice when new capabilities are developed that address
security issues, for them to be available to existing Windows users
for free. But how do you propose that Microsoft recover the cost of
doing that development?

Oh good grief Bill. If someone produces a computer operating system for
sale, it should be as secure as possible. If it's not then it should be made
secure. Yes the unknowledgable consumer is much of the problem with what
they allow to be downloaded, but a secure firewall should be one of the
*basics*.

 

[plun]

Linuxgirl wrote :

Oh good grief Bill. If someone produces a computer operating system for sale,
it should be as secure as possible. If it's not then it should be made
secure. Yes the unknowledgable consumer is much of the problem with what they
allow to be downloaded, but a secure firewall should be one of the *basics*.

Well, this is a mess and with "One Care" even a bigger mess

Either "One Care" will be a high priced premium service only for US
or a medium priced which compete with todays 3rd party security
applications. But if we are in a situation that users cannot handle, it
must be better that MS takes it all and make Windows secure again
without any 3rd party companions.

And after this we have Vista and Palladium coming and then its probably
"Godnight".

This is indeed not fun anymore.........

Maybe Mandriva is something If they fixed all damned libraries
glib, lib, dev etc it should be a lot better

 

[Linuxgirl]

Suse or Mandrake or Debian, Plun.

Linuxgirl wrote :

Well, this is a mess and with "One Care" even a bigger mess

Either "One Care" will be a high priced premium service only for US
or a medium priced which compete with todays 3rd party security
applications. But if we are in a situation that users cannot handle,
it must be better that MS takes it all and make Windows secure again
without any 3rd party companions.

And after this we have Vista and Palladium coming and then its
probably "Godnight".

This is indeed not fun anymore.........

Maybe Mandriva is something If they fixed all damned libraries
glib, lib, dev etc it should be a lot better

 

[Bill Sanderson]

Oh good grief Bill. If someone produces a computer operating system for
sale, it should be as secure as possible. If it's not then it should be
made secure. Yes the unknowledgable consumer is much of the problem with
what they allow to be downloaded, but a secure firewall should be one of
the *basics*.

The Windows and XP firewalls are secure. They do just what they are
intended to do, and do it without creating an unmanageable support burden
for the vendors--either OEM's or Microsoft.

The work involved in creating a firewall that does the job of managing
outbound apps without bugging the users unnecessarily is non-trivial. I
don't know about the state of the art in the Linux world, but I've seen
current NAV offerings and a beta product and they do this job very nicely,
but at some cost in creating and maintaining a roster of "safe" applications
and executables.

I'll admit to being torn on this one. Keyloggers and trojans in place are a
Bad Thing. Microsoft Antispyware is one (free) weapon against these. A
firewall that controls outbound traffic is another. How much is enough for
Microsoft to have done?

 

[plun]

It´s Mandriva now

http://www.mandriva.com/

But still we have this library djungle but
perhaps Linux developers don´t want real standards

--
plun




Linuxgirl formulated the question :

 

[Ron Chamberlin]

Andre,

There are several issues involving regionalization settings which make it
not possible, at this time, to blast the OneCare Beta to all.

Ron Chamberlin
MS-MVP

Why couldn't they have made Microsoft OneCare a world wide open beta like
Microsoft AntiSpyware.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

 

[Ron Chamberlin]

Plun,
If they had delivered Win95 with 'all in one', the courts would still be
busy with the lawsuits from the little guys.

It appears that many of the little guys have changed their business modules,
and they don't get blamed for a crappy product that doesn't protect the
users, Win X does.

Ron Chamberlin
MS-MVP



Ron Chamberlin
MS-MVP

Andre, of course they are in business what I mean is that
it would maybe be a good idea to include all security programs
for Windows delievered from MS included in the license.
No need for 3rd party apps and this is a business challenge
But we then loose all competition so this is indeed difficult.

--
plun


It happens that Andre Da Costa [Extended64] formulated :

Microsoft - its still a business, you will never change the central
practice behind every company which is to make money. Honestly, I think
thats a good thing, in the case of Microsoft it drives both
competitiveness and innovation to be the best in whatever industry they
are competing.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Yup, maybe more important to protect users personal information
then to think about "business"

--
plun


Andre Da Costa used his keyboard to write :
It makes the world go around.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy
http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Hi Andre

Maybe a really good idea, but you know , MONEY, MONEY, MONEY !

This is a swamp with 3rd party companies and a runner up MS. Curtain
down for all 3rd partys ;( but who knows ?

--
plun




After serious thinking Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote :
Why couldn't they have made Microsoft OneCare a world wide open beta
like Microsoft AntiSpyware.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy
http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
What these researchers have found is a repository for log files from
keyloggers.

I'm always surprised that I've never found such a file on any of the
machines I've worked on, but they are something I look for early on
a given new machine because of the disasterous consequences of
having one in place and the information contained in those logs
getting out.

Keyloggers are something that Microsoft Antispyware detects.

It may be of interest to note that future firewall versions from
Microsoft--the one in OneCare, for example:

http://beta.windowsonecare.com/prodinfo/default.aspx

are now two-way, and would help in this situation, as well.

In the life of these forums, we've had perhaps half a dozen or more
reports of keyloggers. Some of those have been false
positives--they need to be researched very carefully--but there have
been at least three, I believe, which have been real.

The outbound stream of logfiles from the keylogger in place can move
via a number of means--it can be very difficult to prevent.

--

http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/08/05/massive-id-theft-ring-discovered/

This is not fun anymore ! >:|

 

[plun]

Well, thats the challenge how to handle those "Little guys".
But this little guys have som rights and also doing business.
Also big business for some of them and they are
still called companions !

I believe that your DOJ maybe have something to say if this goes
to far ?!?



--
plun


Ron Chamberlin formulated the question :

Plun,
If they had delivered Win95 with 'all in one', the courts would still be busy
with the lawsuits from the little guys.

It appears that many of the little guys have changed their business modules,
and they don't get blamed for a crappy product that doesn't protect the
users, Win X does.

Ron Chamberlin
MS-MVP



Ron Chamberlin
MS-MVP

Andre, of course they are in business what I mean is that
it would maybe be a good idea to include all security programs
for Windows delievered from MS included in the license.
No need for 3rd party apps and this is a business challenge
But we then loose all competition so this is indeed difficult.

--
plun


It happens that Andre Da Costa [Extended64] formulated :

Microsoft - its still a business, you will never change the central
practice behind every company which is to make money. Honestly, I think
thats a good thing, in the case of Microsoft it drives both
competitiveness and innovation to be the best in whatever industry they
are competing.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
Yup, maybe more important to protect users personal information
then to think about "business"

--
plun


Andre Da Costa used his keyboard to write :
It makes the world go around.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Hi Andre

Maybe a really good idea, but you know , MONEY, MONEY, MONEY !

This is a swamp with 3rd party companies and a runner up MS. Curtain
down for all 3rd partys ;( but who knows ?

--
plun




After serious thinking Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote :
Why couldn't they have made Microsoft OneCare a world wide open beta
like Microsoft AntiSpyware.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy
http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
What these researchers have found is a repository for log files from
keyloggers.

I'm always surprised that I've never found such a file on any of the
machines I've worked on, but they are something I look for early on a
given new machine because of the disasterous consequences of having
one in place and the information contained in those logs getting out.

Keyloggers are something that Microsoft Antispyware detects.

It may be of interest to note that future firewall versions from
Microsoft--the one in OneCare, for example:

http://beta.windowsonecare.com/prodinfo/default.aspx

are now two-way, and would help in this situation, as well.

In the life of these forums, we've had perhaps half a dozen or more
reports of keyloggers. Some of those have been false positives--they
need to be researched very carefully--but there have been at least
three, I believe, which have been real.

The outbound stream of logfiles from the keylogger in place can move
via a number of means--it can be very difficult to prevent.

--

http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/08/05/massive-id-theft-ring-discovered/

This is not fun anymore ! >:|

 

[plun]

Well, I cannot see any :')

Maybe some germans and french users can have some problem beacuse
they refuse to understand english

 

[Bill Sanderson]

I believe that your DOJ maybe have something to say if this goes
to far ?!?

I'm not sure I'd expect too much in this area from the current
administration......

 

[Bill Sanderson]

The issues are pretty complex, I think--although not insurmountable. This
is a subscription product, with live person support for various functions.
The legalities of offering a subscription product have to be handled for
each country, as does the question of providing help, both written and
aural, in the appropriate language.

There's probably quite a bit more to this than I've written, but it looks
more complex than simple issues of translating the UI to me.

 

[plun]

plun presented the following explanation :

http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/08/05/massive-id-theft-ring-discovered/

This is not fun anymore ! >:|

Follow up:
http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/08/07/update-on-id-theft-ring

Free firewalls with BOTH inbound and outbound control:

Zone alarm
http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/company/products/znalm/freeDownload.jsp

Sygate
http://smb.sygate.com/products/spf_standard.htm

Kerio
http://www.kerio.com/kpf_home.html

 

[plun]

Bill Sanderson was thinking very hard :

I'm not sure I'd expect too much in this area from the current
administration......

Well maybe.............

I (We ? ) can already see a price fall and that security
vendors now really must compete. A lot of offers and bundled to
hardware
, half price, bundled to ISP offers etc.

We will se within next chapter !? One Care will indeed make this arena
better I hope.

 

[Bill Sanderson]

We will se within next chapter !? One Care will indeed make this arena
better I hope.

We'll see. Before any conclusions can be drawn I think I'll need to see
pricing and comparative reviews based on performance. (I'm not worried
about how the antispyware component will stack up!) With antivirus,
effectiveness and updating are the most important issues. I'll want to see
some good work by folks using standardised procedures to compare the
products.