Important request to everyone!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richard Steinfeld
  • Start date Start date
R

Richard Steinfeld

This regards posts to this group regarding software recommendations.
Please make sure to address the following issues when you recommend
software.

- Always provide some description telling what the program does.
Don't just dump a web URL on the board in a one-liner post. Likewise,
don't just submit a one-liner post consisting of the name of a program
and nothing else.

Please put yourself in the reader's shoes when you compose your post --
figure out what you'd want to read on the receiving end, and then write
to that before hitting the "send" button. We need more than a grunt.

- If you have experience with the program, please let us know how it's
worked for you.

And, most important:

???? IS THE PROGRAM SAFE TO USE????

Richard
 
This regards posts to this group regarding software recommendations.
Please make sure to address the following issues when you recommend
software.

Ok, got it. Thanks for the posting tips.
 
Richard said:
This regards posts to this group regarding software recommendations.
Please make sure to address the following issues when you recommend
software.

- Always provide some description telling what the program does.
Don't just dump a web URL on the board in a one-liner post.

If someone has asked about a program to do a specific thing, I think of
a reply consisting of just an URL as a link to a program that does it.
More is unnecessary.
_____________________
Likewise,
don't just submit a one-liner post consisting of the name of a program
and nothing else.

Same thing but the requester has to Google for the URL. He/she can do
that as easily as the responder.
_______________________
Please put yourself in the reader's shoes when you compose your post
-- figure out what you'd want to read on the receiving end, and then
write to that before hitting the "send" button. We need more than a
grunt.

All the info about the program is generally on the program's web page.
__________________________
- If you have experience with the program, please let us know how it's
worked for you.
Reasonable.
_______________________

And, most important:

???? IS THE PROGRAM SAFE TO USE????

"Safe" how? Will it crash somebody's system? Neither I nor anybody
else has a clue not being privy to their system and other software that
might cause a conflict.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
 
This regards posts to this group regarding software recommendations.
Please make sure to address the following issues when you recommend
software.

- Always provide some description telling what the program does.
Don't just dump a web URL on the board in a one-liner post. Likewise,
don't just submit a one-liner post consisting of the name of a program
and nothing else.

Please put yourself in the reader's shoes when you compose your post --
figure out what you'd want to read on the receiving end, and then write
to that before hitting the "send" button. We need more than a grunt.

- If you have experience with the program, please let us know how it's
worked for you.

And, most important:

???? IS THE PROGRAM SAFE TO USE????

Richard

Richard,

I would also add: if you are going to post a URL, please give a link
to a home page or other information source, and not just a link to the
file itself. I, and I'm sure many others here, would never simply
download a program without first trying to find out more about it.
 
dadiOH said:
If someone has asked about a program to do a specific thing, I think of
a reply consisting of just an URL as a link to a program that does it.
More is unnecessary.
_____________________

dadiOH

I believe that Richard was referring to some recent posts by Frank Bohan.
His posts consisted of a program name in the title of the post, and only a
link for the entire body of the post. I too feel that Frank could have put
in a little effort, to let the group know what the program does and why he
was posting about it.
 
Pass. I can think of 20 reasons implementing all of this for every software
post/recommendation/ makes no sense.

CC

==============================================
 
The Six Million Dollar Man said:
dadiOH

I believe that Richard was referring to some recent posts by Frank Bohan.
His posts consisted of a program name in the title of the post, and only a
link for the entire body of the post. I too feel that Frank could have put
in a little effort, to let the group know what the program does and why he
was posting about it.

I take your point, but sometimes I come across a program which I have not
tried, or possibly have no interest in, but which I judge from other posts
would be of interest to other members. In such cases I expect some element
of curiosity to cause the reader to click the link, although in most cases I
include a quote from the site describing the program. Everyone should be
free to post as they think appropriate although I agree that a link is
essential, but I regard the original post in this link to be pompous and
dictatorial. I hope this does not fan the flames!!! Regards.

Frank Bohan
¶ Men are like copiers: You need them for reproduction, but that's about
it.
 
Richard Steinfeld said:
This regards posts to this group regarding software recommendations.
Please make sure to address the following issues when you recommend
software.

- Always provide some description telling what the program does.
Don't just dump a web URL on the board in a one-liner post. Likewise,
don't just submit a one-liner post consisting of the name of a program and
nothing else.

Please put yourself in the reader's shoes when you compose your post --
figure out what you'd want to read on the receiving end, and then write to
that before hitting the "send" button. We need more than a grunt.

- If you have experience with the program, please let us know how it's
worked for you.

And, most important:

???? IS THE PROGRAM SAFE TO USE????

Richard

Jawohl, mein Führer

===

Frank Bohan
¶ You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
 
Chrissy said:
Pass. I can think of 20 reasons implementing all of this for every software
post/recommendation/ makes no sense.

CC

==============================================
Agreed, Not to many technical writers here. :)
 
Frank said:
I take your point, but sometimes I come across a program which I have not
tried, or possibly have no interest in, but which I judge from other posts
would be of interest to other members. In such cases I expect some element
of curiosity to cause the reader to click the link, although in most cases I
include a quote from the site describing the program. Everyone should be
free to post as they think appropriate although I agree that a link is
essential, but I regard the original post in this link to be pompous and
dictatorial. I hope this does not fan the flames!!! Regards.

Frank Bohan
¶ Men are like copiers: You need them for reproduction, but that's about
it.
Frank, I appreciate your reply.
The issue is, in part, that the posts that consist of URLs-only add up
to what can be an accumulated hassle for the reader.
Let's not get into flaming here, but I hope, a solution.

If posts like this (what I'm calling "grunts") were once per day or so,
it would be OK. But when there are a whole bunch like this, it gets real
tedious on the other end. It takes a slight effort to visualize the guy
at the other end who is actually reading the post, and that's what I'm
asking for -- that slight additional mental effort to connect with the
reader.

Many of us are curious or we wouldn't be here for long. But it gets to
be a slog when too many posters expect us to be "curious." Or to be the
recipient of the attitude, "Hey, I did my part in posting the link; It's
your job to figure it out." Yeah, right.

I've worked in usability, and I often see user-centered things that many
software professionals (especially coders) overlook. So, please consider
my contribution about the usability of posts and this great board in
general.

Please understand that the reality is that many people who write
programs are poor communicators; they can actually put up entire sites
and not describe their programs at all! Some descriptions, too, are
written in a technospeak that's sufficient to the originator and not
many other people. Ge writes good code; he does not give good doc.
That's why the lack of any descriptive matter can be so tedious. I go to
linked sites and can't get a clue about what the programs do. This has
happened quite a bit. And, man, I'm good at this!

We can't expect coders, especially people who contribute their effort to
the rest of us, to always be good documenters of their creations -- and
some of them are truly wonderful, don't you agree? So, we share our
experiences on this board and between us, we figure out how to work the
things.

Answering into an existing thread, especially a question, with a URL
might be OK if it's a solution, but some sort of explanation would be
appreciated. How about:
"I haven't tried this." (This indicates that you're not endorsing it.
It's a clear signal.)
"I've used this for years and it's great." (An endorsement)
"This program isn't exactly what you're looking for, but it actually
does what you need." (Not an endorsement, but gives some guidance.)
"Works great, but it's spyware."
"It'll take some work to figure this out. It's been safe for me and a
really good program." (Guidance and endorsement.)

This approach will go a long way around here. Agreed?

Richard
 
Frank said:
Jawohl, mein Führer

Meaning, if you know at all if it's clean, spyware, if the programmer
has a reputation for spyware, etc., please say so. In other words, share
what you know. If you don't know anything about the program, please say
so. What's a few keystrokes? "I haven't tried this." Like that.

Frank, you're taking this as an attack and striking back rather than
dealing with the points I raised. Please! You're too intelligent for this.

Richard
 
Richard Steinfeld said:
dealing with the points I raised. Please! You're too intelligent for this.

You know, I've thought about this thread for awhile. And, while, at first
blush, I sided with those that just wanted to leave a fast comment and
split, now I've change my perspective.. I'm an old hand with computers, and
my standard answer now (not like 20 years ago, when it was "yep, I KNOW what
to do"...............now I say ...."let me think about it." I get more
customers that way now. And lose the ones that are a PITA!

Richard is painfully correct, IMHO. Many times I've answered a post
(thinking, "yep, I'm doing my part for this ng"). but , by not leaving *my*
experiences, or my knowledge of the program, I was, in fact, doing a
dis-service to both the future users, and the AUTHOR(S). You see, most of
the freeware folks that write for us, frequent this NG. Naturally, they
aren't getting any feedback from the ones that install, check it for about 4
NY seconds, and then wham! Uninstall..........I do it too. If I don't like a
program, I just don't use it. BUT, the guy that learned the C++, or Python,
or VB, or whatever, is not trying to get in your pocket. He's just trying to
see if he's on the right track, and will probably write what us users
want....if we tell him/her.

I say, I'll do better. You guys do what you want.........but I've seen
already what a few honest comments can do for someone just looking to
improve their work. Haven't you all seen it? Are we all just a bunch of damn
users? Let's *really* give an honest appraisal of the work we've tried, and
save a poor soul the trial and error of re-inventing the wheel.......It
doesn't cost us anything, does it?

JR
 
Hello, Richard!
You wrote on Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:02:37 -0700:

[cut]
This approach will go a long way around here. Agreed?

I completely agree with you, and I'll try to follow your suggests for my
next posts here.

Kindly regards.
 
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:51:28 -0700, Richard Steinfeld

<<SNIP>>>|

All this crap sounds a lot like social engineering to me!
 
This regards posts to this group regarding software recommendations.
Please make sure to address the following issues when you recommend
software.

- Always provide some description telling what the program does.
Don't just dump a web URL on the board in a one-liner post. Likewise,
don't just submit a one-liner post consisting of the name of a program
and nothing else.

Please put yourself in the reader's shoes when you compose your post --
figure out what you'd want to read on the receiving end, and then write
to that before hitting the "send" button. We need more than a grunt.

- If you have experience with the program, please let us know how it's
worked for you.

And, most important:

???? IS THE PROGRAM SAFE TO USE????

Richard
Gee not only are they getting free software,free help,now they want it
a certain way. are people getting that lazy? shouldnt matter how its
posted a little effort on your part can make it worthwhile too. i have
read many things here that people just place a url or the program name
or whatever else.if im interested i will take what they give me and
find the rest from there.i dont mind doing something for myself here
and there. is this newsgroup for people to control or for people to
enjoy and find some really great software and help. personaly i enjoy
coming in here and have found many things i like. keep up the good
work,info,links people.
 
Frank Bohan wrote:

Fine if people are online. Some people however read newsgroups offline
so cannot do that. If they know something about the link when offline
then it makes it easier for them to decide whether to re-visit that
post when they are next online.

They are free. This in an unmoderated newsgroup.

Yes, that is certainly the way that some people would see it.
Frank, I appreciate your reply.
The issue is, in part, that the posts that consist of URLs-only add up
to what can be an accumulated hassle for the reader.
Agreed.

Let's not get into flaming here, but I hope, a solution.

Let us ? You and Frank ? Or you and everyone here ? In any case it
sounds rather condescending.
If posts like this (what I'm calling "grunts") were once per day or so,
it would be OK. But when there are a whole bunch like this, it gets real
tedious on the other end.

Fine, so make your point without implying that "we" have a problem
that "we" need to fix.

software professionals (especially coders) overlook. So, please consider
my contribution about the usability of posts

I think that many people may agree with the content of your comments
BUT not like what might be considered a patronising approach to
things.
and this great board in general.

This isn't a board. A "good communicator" IMO should know that. You
lose credibility with some people if you haven't yet worked out that
this is a newsgroup. Any mirroring on a web page doesn't change that
fact.

< snip >

Lastly, I think that many of us would like more "relevant" info with
posts BUT the trouble with your making such a fuss about things is
that some people will be put off posting altogether. Rather than risk
ire from you. That IMO would not be a good thing.

Regards, John.
--
****************************************************
,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/
 
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:27:09 -0700, denied <> wrote:

Gee not only are they getting free software,free help,now they want it
a certain way. are people getting that lazy? shouldnt matter how its
posted a little effort on your part can make it worthwhile too. i have
read many things here that people just place a url or the program name
or whatever else.if im interested i will take what they give me and
find the rest from there.i dont mind doing something for myself here
and there.

< snip >

I partly agree with you BUT not completely. Laziness by readers is not
the only reason why a post should contain at least a bit of info in
addition to a URL. For example, suppose a program is for XP only.
Which choice makes more sense ?

(1) Post a URL but make no mention of that fact. 50 people who don't
use XP waste their time going to the site.

(2) Post the URL and mention that the program is for XP users only.

I prefer the latter. In this case laziness has nothing to do with it.
The second option shows IMO a degree of consideration by the poster
for the people who read his/her posts.

Regards, John.
--
****************************************************
,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/
 
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:27:09 -0700, denied <> wrote:



< snip >

I partly agree with you BUT not completely. Laziness by readers is not
the only reason why a post should contain at least a bit of info in
addition to a URL. For example, suppose a program is for XP only.
Which choice makes more sense ?

(1) Post a URL but make no mention of that fact. 50 people who don't
use XP waste their time going to the site.

(2) Post the URL and mention that the program is for XP users only.

I prefer the latter. In this case laziness has nothing to do with it.
The second option shows IMO a degree of consideration by the poster
for the people who read his/her posts.

Regards, John.
Understood a little info is nice.but if the person posting isnt sure
then why slam them for posting the program period.the more info the
better yes .but hey you have to admit laziness does go along with it
when people expect others to do all the work.ive had to deal ith many
people who want someone else to lookup or do the stuff for them.all im
saying is i dont care either way i will take whatever info and use
it. i just dont understand all the flaming over silly stuff. with that
said i still enjoy this group and will continue to use it.nor am i
here to argue anything with anyone. no offense intended to anyone.have
a good day all.
 
Understood a little info is nice.but if the person posting isnt sure
then why slam them for posting the program period.the more info the
better yes .but hey you have to admit laziness does go along with it
when people expect others to do all the work.ive had to deal ith many
people who want someone else to lookup or do the stuff for them.all im
saying is i dont care either way i will take whatever info and use
it. i just dont understand all the flaming over silly stuff. with that
said i still enjoy this group and will continue to use it.nor am i
here to argue anything with anyone. no offense intended to anyone.have
a good day all.

No info means I don't bother normally.
 
If someone has asked about a program to do a specific thing, I think of
a reply consisting of just an URL as a link to a program that does it.
More is unnecessary.

I respectfully disagree, dadiOH, for this reason: Ask the wonderful folks
here for a suggested freeware solution to most problems and you can get
upwards of a dozen solutions. That's a lot of effort in tracking them down;
the more that you can tell people in your post about the software so that
they can compile a shortlist, or even just a priority order, before starting
their research, the more you've helped them.

The only time I would consider a reply with just a URL - or even a one-line
reply without a URL - is when a list has specifically been requested. And
even then, provided that time permits, a fuller response is more useful to
anyone other than the respondant who happens to be reading the thread.

I consider my responses to the recent "Freeware you use everyday" to be very
much the minimum acceptable response, and would have given fuller responses
had it been possible for me to do so at the time.

Mike Bourke
 
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