Imaging a Vista Installation - Question for the guru's - imagex

[BobS]

I've seen a number of posts in this ng as well as others that are asking
about how to clone a Vista installation (image backup) so it can be restored
in the event of a failure or short between the ears.

In the past I have used a number of disc imaging programs from freeware to
the commercial ($$) ones and have had consistent recovery results with
Symantec's Ghost and Norton Save and Restore which is a variation. Your
mileage may vary and others certainly work, I just favor the flexibility I
got with these. Notice, I did not say - bug free or that everything goes
smooth as silk when a disaster strikes but they have pulled thru some of the
most interesting of hardware configurations. Ones you hope will work again
after being tested but things changed in the meantime and you cross your
fingers.....

That said, Ghost 12 is in the works and I'll probably get it when done as
much as it pains me to give Symantec any more money - but their tech support
has improved. I actually got a call-back from them doing follow-up to
insure the problem was solved.

But in lieu of Ghost for now, I went looking for a Vista compatible
solution. Yes I know what Acronis says but what their program does is
something different - inconsistent results is what I got under XP and a
corrupted disc on two other instances - no thanks.

After much looking around, I found " imagex " that is part of the Windows
"Business Desktop Deployment 2007".


http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...G1UEicCTuwJr051fzNoExFYmdmioHOT62PQE3QR883g==

In short, you can read about it here and it's free

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905070.aspx

I have not had the chance to try it but I did download the package and
watched a short tutorial. It is Ghost on steroids but the downside is that
it's not GUI based so it's probably a bit geeky for the casual user. And I
don't know how to use it to do a recovery but it does compression, allows
you to combine images and uses the WIM image format so you can recover to
any size partition from what I've read.

So my questions for the guru's that have used this imagex program:

1. Is anyone developing a GUI interface for this imaging / deployment tool?
Would appear MS could have a Ghost killer if they did....
2. Is it realizable and as flexible as TechNet indicates?
3. I'm assuming I can make a bootable CD with this on it since it's a tad
large for a floppy.
4. What other tools would you recommend be placed on the CD to deal with
recovery scenarios for Vista?

Thanks,

Bob S.

 

[Guest]

Bob,

Why don't you give Acronis another try with their new version for Vista, I
used it 2 days ago, had no problem with it. The only tricky thing I have to
say about it is when you try to create a Secure Zone, other that it worked
dandy and fancy for me.

 

[BobS]

Probably should in all fairness but I backup to an eSATA drive and/or to a
NAS (LinkSys) with two drives on each on one of the systems. Those drives
can be taken off the NAS and plugged directly into the USB port if needed.
Acronis could not configure (find) my two on-board NICs (Marvel Yukon and an
NVidia nForce) making network recovery difficult. Norton had a problem not
seeing the Nvidia NIC but was fine with the Marvel Yukon NIC.

I used Drive Image (and Ghost) up to last year and it worked fine but
Symantec bought that company up and came out with Norton Save and Restore
which as I said is a Ghost variation and Drive Image kinda rolled into one.
It works very nice too.

I don't like messing with freeware when it comes to making images of my
drives. I've spent hours recovering from stupid mistakes I made in the past
thinking that my backups would save my butt. And when you get the message
"Data Corrupt", you know you're in for a long night. Gotta dig out the CD's
with all the last months data archives (assuming I remembered to burn them
to the CD's) and then reload all the app's, updates, tweak the
settings......

Nope - no more. Backups go to quality hard drives - multiple copies - each
one verified, every other night - full image and everything on backup power.
Paranoid - yep.... and after you spend a few all-nigthters putting it all
back together - you learn quickly....;-) I'm only human, I know I'm gonna
do something stupid sometime playing around and so I use the belt and
suspenders when it comes to backups.

Bob S.

 

[BobS]

Follow-up to my statement about "Probably should...".

Just took a look at the forums over at Acronis. No way.... to many gotcha's
being complained about. It's not ready for prime time on Vista.

Bob S.

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

Ghost - any Symantec product really - isn't worth the risk any longer and
hasn't been for a while now. True Image 10 works great.

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

Bob,

Why don't you give Acronis another try with their new version for Vista, I
used it 2 days ago, had no problem with it. The only tricky thing I have
to
say about it is when you try to create a Secure Zone, other that it worked
dandy and fancy for me.

True Image 10 came out last Oct I think and it works great with Vista
excepting that though you tell the damned program how many backups and/or
how many gigs you want to allocate for backups, it entirely ignores it. I
wouldn't trust Secure Zone to work properly but it images correctly and
restores the same.

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

You needn't worry. The backup amounts and gigs supposed to be limited to
don't work but the imaging and the restoring work fine.

 

[Ron Miller]

I've seen a number of posts in this ng as well as others that are asking
about how to clone a Vista installation (image backup) so it can be restored
in the event of a failure or short between the ears.

In the past I have used a number of disc imaging programs from freeware to
the commercial ($$) ones and have had consistent recovery results with
Symantec's Ghost and Norton Save and Restore which is a variation. Your
mileage may vary and others certainly work, I just favor the flexibility I
got with these. Notice, I did not say - bug free or that everything goes
smooth as silk when a disaster strikes but they have pulled thru some of the
most interesting of hardware configurations. Ones you hope will work again
after being tested but things changed in the meantime and you cross your
fingers.....

That said, Ghost 12 is in the works and I'll probably get it when done as
much as it pains me to give Symantec any more money - but their tech support
has improved. I actually got a call-back from them doing follow-up to
insure the problem was solved.

But in lieu of Ghost for now, I went looking for a Vista compatible
solution. Yes I know what Acronis says but what their program does is
something different - inconsistent results is what I got under XP and a
corrupted disc on two other instances - no thanks.

After much looking around, I found " imagex " that is part of the Windows
"Business Desktop Deployment 2007".


http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...G1UEicCTuwJr051fzNoExFYmdmioHOT62PQE3QR883g==

In short, you can read about it here and it's free

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905070.aspx

I have not had the chance to try it but I did download the package and
watched a short tutorial. It is Ghost on steroids but the downside is that
it's not GUI based so it's probably a bit geeky for the casual user. And I
don't know how to use it to do a recovery but it does compression, allows
you to combine images and uses the WIM image format so you can recover to
any size partition from what I've read.

So my questions for the guru's that have used this imagex program:

1. Is anyone developing a GUI interface for this imaging / deployment tool?
Would appear MS could have a Ghost killer if they did....
2. Is it realizable and as flexible as TechNet indicates?
3. I'm assuming I can make a bootable CD with this on it since it's a tad
large for a floppy.
4. What other tools would you recommend be placed on the CD to deal with
recovery scenarios for Vista?

Thanks,

Bob S.

Vista, ITSELF, will do image-based backups if you have a version with
full Backup and Restore capabilities. I think that limits you to
Business and Ultimate. I do have Business, but, unfortunately for me, I
set up a dual-boot system with XP. My XP installation is on a FAT32
drive, and Vista's imaging system will not deal with anything but NTFS.
It therefore cannot even back up my Vista installation because Vista's
BCD store is on that FAT32 drive -- show stopper. I was really looking
forward to this new capability, so that I'd not have to purchase the
commercial programs any longer, but it's a no-go for me. I'm not
terribly disappointed because Vista's backup won't do incremental or
differential imaging. However, since you do only full backups every
other night, simply upgrading to a version of Vista with full Backup and
Restore capabilities might be an option for you.

Like you, I guess I'll have to send more $$$ to Symantec for Ghost 12 :-(

 

[Darrell Gorter[MSFT]]

Hello Bob
Imagex is part of the Windows AIK.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c7d4bc6d-15f3-4284-
9123-679830d629f2&DisplayLang=en
Which itself is part of the BDD download.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "BobS" <[email protected]>
|>Subject: Imaging a Vista Installation - Question for the guru's - imagex
|>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:51:39 -0500
|>Lines: 57
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028
|>X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028
|>X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: cpe-24-58-242-25.twcny.res.rr.com 24.58.242.25
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup:7802
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>
|>I've seen a number of posts in this ng as well as others that are asking
|>about how to clone a Vista installation (image backup) so it can be
restored
|>in the event of a failure or short between the ears.
|>
|>In the past I have used a number of disc imaging programs from freeware
to
|>the commercial ($$) ones and have had consistent recovery results with
|>Symantec's Ghost and Norton Save and Restore which is a variation. Your
|>mileage may vary and others certainly work, I just favor the flexibility
I
|>got with these. Notice, I did not say - bug free or that everything goes
|>smooth as silk when a disaster strikes but they have pulled thru some of
the
|>most interesting of hardware configurations. Ones you hope will work
again
|>after being tested but things changed in the meantime and you cross your
|>fingers.....
|>
|>That said, Ghost 12 is in the works and I'll probably get it when done as
|>much as it pains me to give Symantec any more money - but their tech
support
|>has improved. I actually got a call-back from them doing follow-up to
|>insure the problem was solved.
|>
|>But in lieu of Ghost for now, I went looking for a Vista compatible
|>solution. Yes I know what Acronis says but what their program does is
|>something different - inconsistent results is what I got under XP and a
|>corrupted disc on two other instances - no thanks.
|>
|>After much looking around, I found " imagex " that is part of the Windows
|>"Business Desktop Deployment 2007".
|>
|>
|>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=13f05be2-fd0e-462
0-8ca6-1aad6fc54741&displaylang=en&Hash=etaiG5%2bS4gqunz%2bF3ZXQdxtduNHZ5kxL
QVls1HK8duKG1UEicCTuwJr051fzNoExFYmdmioHOT62PQE3QR883g%3d%3d
|>
|>In short, you can read about it here and it's free
|>
|>http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905070.aspx
|>
|>I have not had the chance to try it but I did download the package and
|>watched a short tutorial. It is Ghost on steroids but the downside is
that
|>it's not GUI based so it's probably a bit geeky for the casual user. And
I
|>don't know how to use it to do a recovery but it does compression, allows
|>you to combine images and uses the WIM image format so you can recover to
|>any size partition from what I've read.
|>
|>So my questions for the guru's that have used this imagex program:
|>
|>1. Is anyone developing a GUI interface for this imaging / deployment
tool?
|>Would appear MS could have a Ghost killer if they did....
|>2. Is it realizable and as flexible as TechNet indicates?
|>3. I'm assuming I can make a bootable CD with this on it since it's a tad
|>large for a floppy.
|>4. What other tools would you recommend be placed on the CD to deal with
|>recovery scenarios for Vista?
|>
|>Thanks,
|>
|>Bob S.
|>
|>
|>
|>

 

[BobS]

Ron,

Thanks for your time and comments. I do have Vista Ultimate and the backup
program is not, shall we say, flexible enough nor feature rich for my needs.

Bob S.

 

[BobS]

Darrel,

Thanks and I have the download. Was hoping that one of your enterprising
guru's would be writing a GUI for that thing....;-)

Bob S.

Hello Bob
Imagex is part of the Windows AIK.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c7d4bc6d-15f3-4284-
9123-679830d629f2&DisplayLang=en
Which itself is part of the BDD download.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "BobS" <[email protected]>
|>Subject: Imaging a Vista Installation - Question for the guru's - imagex
|>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:51:39 -0500
|>Lines: 57
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028
|>X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028
|>X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: cpe-24-58-242-25.twcny.res.rr.com 24.58.242.25
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup:7802
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>
|>I've seen a number of posts in this ng as well as others that are asking
|>about how to clone a Vista installation (image backup) so it can be
restored
|>in the event of a failure or short between the ears.
|>
|>In the past I have used a number of disc imaging programs from freeware
to
|>the commercial ($$) ones and have had consistent recovery results with
|>Symantec's Ghost and Norton Save and Restore which is a variation. Your
|>mileage may vary and others certainly work, I just favor the flexibility
I
|>got with these. Notice, I did not say - bug free or that everything
goes
|>smooth as silk when a disaster strikes but they have pulled thru some of
the
|>most interesting of hardware configurations. Ones you hope will work
again
|>after being tested but things changed in the meantime and you cross your
|>fingers.....
|>
|>That said, Ghost 12 is in the works and I'll probably get it when done
as
|>much as it pains me to give Symantec any more money - but their tech
support
|>has improved. I actually got a call-back from them doing follow-up to
|>insure the problem was solved.
|>
|>But in lieu of Ghost for now, I went looking for a Vista compatible
|>solution. Yes I know what Acronis says but what their program does is
|>something different - inconsistent results is what I got under XP and a
|>corrupted disc on two other instances - no thanks.
|>
|>After much looking around, I found " imagex " that is part of the
Windows
|>"Business Desktop Deployment 2007".
|>
|>
|>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=13f05be2-fd0e-462
0-8ca6-1aad6fc54741&displaylang=en&Hash=etaiG5%2bS4gqunz%2bF3ZXQdxtduNHZ5kxL
QVls1HK8duKG1UEicCTuwJr051fzNoExFYmdmioHOT62PQE3QR883g%3d%3d
|>
|>In short, you can read about it here and it's free
|>
|>http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905070.aspx
|>
|>I have not had the chance to try it but I did download the package and
|>watched a short tutorial. It is Ghost on steroids but the downside is
that
|>it's not GUI based so it's probably a bit geeky for the casual user.
And
I
|>don't know how to use it to do a recovery but it does compression,
allows
|>you to combine images and uses the WIM image format so you can recover
to
|>any size partition from what I've read.
|>
|>So my questions for the guru's that have used this imagex program:
|>
|>1. Is anyone developing a GUI interface for this imaging / deployment
tool?
|>Would appear MS could have a Ghost killer if they did....
|>2. Is it realizable and as flexible as TechNet indicates?
|>3. I'm assuming I can make a bootable CD with this on it since it's a
tad
|>large for a floppy.
|>4. What other tools would you recommend be placed on the CD to deal with
|>recovery scenarios for Vista?
|>
|>Thanks,
|>
|>Bob S.
|>
|>
|>
|>

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Thanks and I have the download. Was hoping that one of your enterprising
guru's would be writing a GUI for that thing....;-)

I hate to be a parade-rainer, but it seems as the WAIK or BDD EULA
specifically excludes use as a backup tool.

I've written a couple of batch files to automate some of the drudgery.
These are powerful tools, so be very careful when automating them; do
NOT simply run these batch files as-is without editing etc.!


MAKEPE.CMD ---------------- --- -- - - - - -

@Echo Off

SetLocal

:; > You must edit these to suit your installation
Set WAIK=E:\WAIK
Set BootSec=E:\!WAIK\WinPE32\ETFSBoot.com
Set Source=E:\!WAIK\WinPE32\ISO
Set Output=E:\!WAIK\Work
Set Parms= -n
Set
Path=%Path%;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools\..\%PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE%
:; <

If "%1"=="" GoTo Help
If Not "%2"=="" GoTo Help
Echo.
Echo This will build WinPE 2.0 ISO as %ISO% using this command:
Echo.
Echo OSCDImg %Parms% -l%1 %Source% -b%BootSec% %Output%\%1.ISO
Echo.
Echo If this is not what you want, press Ctl+C to abort, else...
Pause
Echo.
OSCDImg %Parms% -l%1 %Source% -b%BootSec% %Output%\%1.ISO
GoTo End

:Help
Echo.
Echo %0 will create a WinPE 2.0 ISO as per these parameters:
Echo.
Echo %0 ISOName
Echo.
Echo ISOName will be used for the CD's label, and will have .ISO
Echo appended for the name of the ISO file.
Echo.
Echo The following locations and values are assumed:
Echo.
Echo Source path = %Source%
Echo Output path = %Output%
Echo Boot sector = %BootSec%
Echo Parameters = %Parms%
Echo.
Echo Use the OSCDImg command directly if you wish to change these!
Echo.
Pause
Echo.
GoTo End

:End

EndLocal


EDITPE.CMD ---------------- --- -- - - - - -

@Echo Off

SetLocal

:; > You must edit these to suit your installation
Set WAIK=E:\WAIK
Set Image=E:\!WAIK\WinPE32\WinPE.wim
Set Mount=E:\!WAIK\WinPE32\Mount
Set
Path=%Path%;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools\..\%PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE%
:; <

If Not "%1"=="" GoTo Help
Echo.
Echo This will mount WinPE 2.0 image for editing, using this
command:
Echo.
Echo ImageX /MountRW %Image% 1 %Mount%
Echo.
Echo When done editing, use SAVEPE to save, or LOSEPE to lose, your
changes.
Echo If this is not what you want, press Ctl+C to abort, else...
Pause
Echo.
ImageX /MountRW %Image% 1 %Mount%
GoTo End

:Help
Echo.
Echo This will mount WinPE image for editing, using no parameters.
Echo.
Echo The following locations and values are assumed:
Echo.
Echo Image path = %Image%
Echo Mount point = %Mount%
Echo.
Echo Use the ImageX /MountRW command directly if you wish to change
these!
Echo.
Pause
Echo.
GoTo End

:End

EndLocal


LOSEPE.CMD ---------------- --- -- - - - - -

@Echo Off

SetLocal

:; > You must edit these to suit your installation
Set WAIK=E:\WAIK
Set Mount=E:\!WAIK\WinPE32\Mount
Set
Path=%Path%;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools\..\%PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE%
:; <

If Not "%1"=="" GoTo Help
Echo.
Echo This will lose changes to the WinPE 2.0 image, using this
command:
Echo.
Echo ImageX /UnMount %Mount%
Echo.
Pause
Echo.
ImageX /UnMount %Mount%
GoTo End

:Help
Echo.
Echo This will unmount WinPE image, losing changes to it, using no
parameters.
Echo.
Echo The following location is assumed:
Echo.
Echo Mount point = %Mount%
Echo.
Echo Use the ImageX /UnMount /Commit command or SavePE command to
save changes!
Echo.
Pause
Echo.
GoTo End

:End

EndLocal


SAVEPE.CMD ---------------- --- -- - - - - -

@Echo Off

SetLocal

:; > You must edit these to suit your installation
Set WAIK=E:\WAIK
Set Mount=E:\!WAIK\WinPE32\Mount
Set
Path=%Path%;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools;%WAIK%\Tools\PETools\..\%PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE%
:; <

If Not "%1"=="" GoTo Help
Echo.
Echo This will write changes back to WinPE 2.0 image, using this
command:
Echo.
Echo ImageX /UnMount /Commit %Mount%
Echo.
Pause
Echo.
ImageX /UnMount %Mount%
GoTo End

:Help
Echo.
Echo This will unmount WinPE image, saving changes to it, using no
parameters.
Echo.
Echo The following location is assumed:
Echo.
Echo Mount point = %Mount%
Echo.
Echo Use the ImageX /UnMount command or LosePE command to discard
changes!
Echo.
Pause
Echo.
GoTo End

:End

EndLocal


MAKEC.CMD ---------------- --- -- - - - - -

@Echo Off

If "%1"=="" GoTo Help
If Not "%2"=="" GoTo Help

Echo.
Echo This will apply image %1 to C:\ as per this command:
Echo.
Echo ImageX /Apply %~dp0%1 1 C:\
Echo.
Echo If this is not what you want, press Ctl+C to abort, else...
Pause
Echo.

ImageX /Apply %~dp0%1 1 C:\

GoTo End

:Help
Echo.
Echo %0 applies an OS installation image to C:\ using this command...
Echo.
Echo ImageX /Apply ImageName 1 C:\
Echo.
Echo ...where ImageName is the filespec for the image to apply.
Echo.
Pause
Echo.

:End

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

Just had a few days of Vista not able to find drivers and suddenly realising
it is because, though you tell it to look on C drive for them and it is
ticked to look in all subfolders, it just doesn't do that. You have to get
more specific.

Anyway, the point to this is that while I was trying to solve the problem, I
loaded an image backup from some days back using True Image 10 and it went
on and booted perfectly. So, for my money, True Image 10 is the backup
program of choice.