I'm Going Crazy, HELLLLPPP!

S

Scientific

Hello all,

I have several tables that I need to join into a Main table where each
record will be stored, but I keep getting an "Ambiguous Outer Joins" error
message and can't figure out how to arrange them so that all data will show
up from each table. Relational databases are a lot more complicated than the
simple stuff I usually do. Can someone show me how to set them up in a Query?

Here are the tables with PK's:

Personnel
Personnel_ID
---------------
Companies
Company_ID
---------------
Contacts
Contact_ID
---------------
Security
Security_ID
---------------
BadgeTypes
Badge_ID
 
P

Piet Linden

Hello all,

I have several tables that I need to join into a Main table where each
record will be stored, but I keep getting an "Ambiguous Outer Joins" error
message and can't figure out how to arrange them so that all data will show
up from each table.  Relational databases are a lot more complicated than the
simple stuff I usually do. Can someone show me how to set them up in a Query?

Here are the tables with PK's:

Personnel
Personnel_ID
---------------
Companies
Company_ID
---------------
Contacts
Contact_ID
---------------
Security
Security_ID
---------------
BadgeTypes
Badge_ID

Okay, now for the fun part. You can't join one table to another
without foreign keys. How are all these entities related in the real
world? Companies have one or more Employees. Each employee can have
one or more badges over his tenure. Each badge can belong to zero or
more employees....????? Time to turn off the computer, get out the
notepad, diagram the database and then put in foreign keys.
 
J

John W. Vinson

Hello all,

I have several tables that I need to join into a Main table where each
record will be stored, but I keep getting an "Ambiguous Outer Joins" error
message and can't figure out how to arrange them so that all data will show
up from each table. Relational databases are a lot more complicated than the
simple stuff I usually do. Can someone show me how to set them up in a Query?

You'll need to go back a few steps and learn about Normalization and how
tables are related to one another. It's a pretty steep learning curve, but
don't despair!

Check out:

Jeff Conrad's resources page:
http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/accessjunkie/resources.html

The Access Web resources page:
http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html

Roger Carlson's tutorials, samples and tips:
http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/

A free tutorial written by Crystal:
http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html

A video how-to series by Crystal:
http://www.YouTube.com/user/LearnAccessByCrystal

MVP Allen Browne's tutorials:
http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials
 
L

Larry Linson

A "foreign key" is a field in one table containing a value that identifies
which record in another table is related to this record. The "value" is
normally, but not necessarily, the value of the primary key of the record in
the other table.

John Vinson has provided some excellent references for you.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP
 
S

Scientific

John, Larry, Piet,

Thank you all for responding to my post. Larry, thanks for explaining in
simple terms what on earth a Foriegn key is. John, thanks for the links to
pages that can help me figure things out. One last thing though, how can I
become like all of you? What kind of books did you read to become the greats
that you are. I really do envy anyone who can figure out Access :-(

Can I move in with you, PLEEAASSSE :) Thanks again for your help!

-S
 
M

Mike Painter

Professionals read manuals, nerds like to read them.
When I move to a new platform I tend to read a user guide pretty much the
same way I would read a novel.
Knowing answers at that point is not nearly as important as knowing where
to find the answers.

With me a lot of knowledge comes from finding out that you can't do it that
way.
 
J

John W. Vinson

John, Larry, Piet,

Thank you all for responding to my post. Larry, thanks for explaining in
simple terms what on earth a Foriegn key is. John, thanks for the links to
pages that can help me figure things out. One last thing though, how can I
become like all of you? What kind of books did you read to become the greats
that you are. I really do envy anyone who can figure out Access :-(

That's like the tourist stopping a musician on the streets of New York and
asking "How can I get to Carnagie Hall?"

"Practice, my boy, practice!"

There are some good books in the references; but some people learn well from
books and some don't, and what might be a great book for me might be a total
waste for you, and vice versa. You'll need to just sit down in a good
bookstore and spend a couple of hours pulling Access books off the shelf and
seeing which "click" for you.

I've actually learned far more on these newsgroups than from any book, even
the estimable Access Developers' Handbook, Designing Relational Database
Systems or Access Inside Out.
Can I move in with you, PLEEAASSSE :) Thanks again for your help!

I'll have to talk to my wife... some weeding, tilling and harvesting in her
market garden might be required <g>
 
S

Scientific

John,

That's a great idea. Grab some coffee from Starbucks and pull up a chair at
Barne's & Noble. At least I can test the waters and see what's out there.
Weeding, tilling, harvesting. Hmmm, that sounds excruciating. I'd prefer
waterboarding if I have a choice :) Thanks too all once again. I love this
forum....

-S
 
L

Larry Linson

Scientific said:
. . . One last thing though, how can I become like all
of you? What kind of books did you read to become
the greats that you are. I really do envy anyone who
can figure out Access :-(

"Greats" is a strong word. I, for one, only claim to be one of "The Great
Access Unwashed", and think John does, too. I'm not smarter than anyone
else, but, like the Eagles' song, "just spent more time with my back to the
wall".

John may have started with Access a little sooner than I... Access 1.0 was
released late October 1992, but I didn't get my copy ($88.88 at the
then-called-"Softwarehouse") until early January 1993. I'd been waiting
eagerly for the Windows version of Paradox, but found this "upstart" to be
so exciting that I advertised in my user group's newsletter in February and
March 1993, and held an organizational meeting for the Access Special
Interest Group (SIG) in April 1993, with a few over 60 attendees. That SIG
has been around ever since, and I am still co-Leader of it... yep, 15 years
and counting. And, except for a couple of brief interruptions for surgery
and vacation, I have used Access _every day_ since January 1993.

From the time I started with Access, I have been answering questions online,
first in the ACCESS "echo" of the old FidoNet hobbyist network; then in the
newsgroups. Early on, I would go to Access Help and search first, and most
of the questions I answered I had to recreate the situation to find a
solutions or to test the solution suggested by Help. Like John, I learned a
lot from others in the newsgroups.

The "breakthrough" for Access was Access 2.0, and one contributing factor
was that its Help had every word of the Access documentation. It's still a
good, solid version, 16-bit, if you don't need to try to protect your code
from being stolen (there was/is a security hole), and can run it on a real
or virtual machine with 1 GB of main memory or less. Access 97 was and is,
arguably, the best-ever version right out of the box. Access 2003 was the
"pinnacle" for "classic" Access. Access 2007 brought major changes to the
user Interface (some like them better than others -- I, for one, am not a
fan of The Ribbon, but it's here to stay, I think, so I'm investing some
time and energy in re-learning where to find the functions I need). From
discussions with the Access team at MVP Summits, I believe that Access is
going to be around a long time, yet, and that it is going to get better with
each new version that is released. From 1992 until now, 2009, it has already
had a substantially longer lifetime than many PC Products.

Some books I recommend: "Access Step by Step", for the new user; "Access
Inside Out" for the new to advanced end user and beginning developer;
"Access Developer's Handbook" (v 2002 was the last edition published, and
some of us surely missed having an edition for v 2007) for the developer.
Most of the best Access developers I know have a copy of (every edition of)
the Access Developer's Handbook, and agree with me that every edition has
paid for itself in saved time and effort the very first time I used it on
paying work.
You'll find a list of MVP's (and former MVP's) websites at my user group
SharePoint site, http://sp.ntpcug.org/accesssig/default.aspx, on the very
first page. I especially recommend the tutorials by MVP Crystal Long for
learning.

I've been in the computer business for over 50 years, and never worked with
any other product where the people who knew about it were as good about
sharing their knowledge and helping other users as the Access community is.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP
 
S

Scientific

Larry,

Awesome story and history. Thanks for sharing it and I enjoyed reading
every bit. I appreciate the committment all of you have for what you so
obviously love to do. Also, thanks for those book titles too as it helps me
narrow things down somewhat. I sure would like to meet you folks one day, but
I think you have to be invited to those summits. It would be awesome just to
be able to listen to your points of view about Access and software
development in general.

I've seen many of the posts throughout the microsoft community forums and
the praise you recieve from among those you have helped. It is well deserved
and the rest of the world out there are the luckiest of all because we have
good people like you willing to share their knowledge with the world. Thank
you all so much.

-S
 

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