If Registry Cleaners are no good then....

T

TBerk

What is to be used when you have a corrupted install of a program?

Case in point;

- User has McAfee Home Edition on a Dell system.

- Subscription has expired, wants to change to another application.

- Running 'Add Remove Programs' brings up McAfee version of install;
it fails to complete quoting an error message that this Windows
Installer is corrupt.

btw- the original trouble which brought me into this is the infection
of the system by AntiVirusPro and the user's subsequent attempts to
remove it.

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=antiviruspro>

In researching what regcleaners might be suitable for use with XP I
keep getting (what seems like propaganda) messages saying they are not
worth the effort.

Flames not required, useful suggestions encouraged.


TBerk
 
S

Shenan Stanley

TBerk said:
What is to be used when you have a corrupted install of a program?

Case in point;

- User has McAfee Home Edition on a Dell system.

- Subscription has expired, wants to change to another application.

- Running 'Add Remove Programs' brings up McAfee version of install;
it fails to complete quoting an error message that this Windows
Installer is corrupt.

btw- the original trouble which brought me into this is the infection
of the system by AntiVirusPro and the user's subsequent attempts to
remove it.

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=antiviruspro>

In researching what regcleaners might be suitable for use with XP I
keep getting (what seems like propaganda) messages saying they are not
worth the effort.

Flames not required, useful suggestions encouraged.


'Registry cleaners' are *not* what you are demonstrating in your example.
Spot registry editing - at best - is what you have there.

There was a set of entries left over by the bum install. You needed to get
rid of those because new products saw it and assumed you still had the
product. REGEDIT and the DEL key could have done the same job as quickly
and as efficiently and with much less chance of you deleting anything that
you didn't need to delete.

Here's what I hate about the whole 'registry cleaners' argument... The only
reasons that people give for their existence is incomplete uninstalls, etc.
It seems people are content letting the companies put out products that
cannot clean up after themselves... It's not Microsoft's fault that the
third-party companies put out products that cannot properly uninstall what
they put into place - that would be the software manufacturer's of said
products - right?

The problem is not with the 'registry cleaners' themselves (in some cases) -
but with the usage of them. The number of variables such a product would
have to take into account is phenomenal. So much so that I believe the only
way these programs would be useful is if they were installed before you
started installing all of the many millions of products you could install -
and then it keeps track of said installs just like if you did a
filemon/regmon before/after you installed it - as well as it keeps tracks of
changes every time you utilize/close said application - in case it furthers
where its tendrils goes - and then if you ever uninstall it - it uses all of
that combined information to literally and quite thoroughly wipe your system
of all traces (giving you choices to save certain files - such as those you
CREATED with said product...)

I know of no such product - I know of products that do part of that, but not
everything I gave. A registry cleaner is simply going through and finding
registry entries that it deems shouldn't be there. Users (in some cases)
can review these finds... However - if the user knew what they were looking
for - they would have probably found it and deleted it on their own - why
should they trust this third-party product that tells them a certain key is
unnecessary? Now - you may say, "They can research it" - but if they had
researched it before - they probably would have found the 'manual removal'
instructions on the products support site that tells them JUST what they
need to delete. Most people want the easy fix and unlike they might do with
other items - they choose to trust whatever the computer tells them and just
click "ok". It happens all the time.

Are registry cleaners innately *bad*? No.
Should anyone who doesn't already understand the registry use them? My
opinion is *no*.

It's like giving someone (who happens not to be an auto-mechanic and knows
NOTHING about engines/automobiles beyond using them to get from point A to
point B) a toolset and opening the hood of your car... GO! Yeah - that
might not work out as planned. Might work out fine. Willing to play the
odds?
 
J

Jim

TBerk said:
What is to be used when you have a corrupted install of a program?

Case in point;

- User has McAfee Home Edition on a Dell system.

- Subscription has expired, wants to change to another application.

- Running 'Add Remove Programs' brings up McAfee version of install;
it fails to complete quoting an error message that this Windows
Installer is corrupt
This doesn't sound much like a registry problem to me.
Rather, something is wrong with the installer (is it Windows Installer or
McAfee's installer?).
Or is the problem that the uninstall file is corrupt?
How about quoting the entire text of the message instead of just summarising
it?
btw- the original trouble which brought me into this is the infection
of the system by AntiVirusPro and the user's subsequent attempts to
remove it.

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=antiviruspro>

In researching what regcleaners might be suitable for use with XP I
keep getting (what seems like propaganda) messages saying they are not
worth the effort.

Flames not required, useful suggestions encouraged.


TBerk
There are too many other sources for the poor slob's problem for anyone to
be working
on the registry.

Jim
 
B

Brian A.

TBerk said:
What is to be used when you have a corrupted install of a program?

Case in point;

- User has McAfee Home Edition on a Dell system.

- Subscription has expired, wants to change to another application.

- Running 'Add Remove Programs' brings up McAfee version of install;
it fails to complete quoting an error message that this Windows
Installer is corrupt.

btw- the original trouble which brought me into this is the infection
of the system by AntiVirusPro and the user's subsequent attempts to
remove it.

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=antiviruspro>

In researching what regcleaners might be suitable for use with XP I
keep getting (what seems like propaganda) messages saying they are not
worth the effort.

Flames not required, useful suggestions encouraged.


TBerk

Hi TBerk,

You can have a look here for reg entries AVPro creates:
http://www.ca.com/securityadvisor/pest/pest.aspx?id=453097607

However it may or may not be enough, everywhere I search the Trojan.Vundo is
mentioned as well 80% of the time.

Info on Vundo:
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2004-112111-3912-99&tabid=3


Run a full system virus scan with fully up-to-date definitions.

**It is very important to run the update for each program before running the app/s
to be sure you have the latest definitions.**
Run the programs in Safe Mode after assuring you have shut down all running tasks
except explorer or systray and all apps are fully up to date.
Remove your Temp Internet files: Right click IE. Under the General tab click Delete
Files, put a check in Delete all Offline..., click OK and close when finished.
Delete all files in c:\windows\temp.

Download/run Cool Web Shredder from:
http://www.intermute.com/products/cwshredder.html

For Info on Cool Web Search variants:
http://www.richardthelionhearted.com/~merijn/cwschronicles.html

Download/install/run Ad-Aware SE to detect/rid of any other parasites/spyware that
may be installed. It can be obtained free from:
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/
After installing Ad-Aware, open it and click on the ref update to get the latest
up-to-date ref file, then run Ad-Aware and delete everything it finds.

Download/install/run Spybot - Search & Destroy:
http://security.kolla.de/index.php?lang=en&page=download
Run it at it's default settings until you learn an know more about it. Spybot S&D
is more of an advanced users tool and changing from the default settings can be
dangerous to the novice user. Items found in the default settings that are RED can
usually be safely removed. If you are unsure of a found item, do not remove it and
ask for help.

If you still have problems, download/run HijackThis from:
http://www.richardthelionhearted.com/~merijn/downloads.html
http://majorgeeks.com/downloads31.html

Copy HJT to it's own folder, this is where the log files will be saved. Run HJT in
Normal Mode.
Do not remove anything with it until you get advice on what to remove, HJThis will
list many apps that are needed along with the bad ones. Removing items listed
hap-hazardly without knowing what they are can/will create a royal mess. Read the
quick start here on how to create a log file that can be copied/pasted into a forum
that can provide assistance on removal of unwanted pests.
http://mjc1.com/mirror/hjt/#quick

Then post the logs to an appropriate forum where they specialize in
spyware/hijacker removal. Please read any sticky notes for proper posting which are
most commonly posted first at the top in each specific forum. Read any information
under each forum category name for information on what that particular one is used
for, look for the proper one that you post logs to.
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/
http://aumha.net/
http://forum.aumha.org/

After running the above and assuring you have a clean machine:
It’s also a good idea to have a HOSTS file to block bad sites, scroll to HOSTS File
Manager here:
http://www.mvps.org/PracticallyNerded/Software.htm

Download/install/run SpywareBlaster which stops the bad boys before they even get a
chance to install:
http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html


--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
 
B

Bruce Chambers

TBerk said:
What is to be used when you have a corrupted install of a program?

Case in point;

- User has McAfee Home Edition on a Dell system.

- Subscription has expired, wants to change to another application.

- Running 'Add Remove Programs' brings up McAfee version of install;
it fails to complete quoting an error message that this Windows
Installer is corrupt.

What makes you think a registry cleaner would be of any use to resolve
this problem? Why not fix the Windows Installer, instead?

btw- the original trouble which brought me into this is the infection
of the system by AntiVirusPro and the user's subsequent attempts to
remove it.

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=antiviruspro>

In researching what regcleaners might be suitable for use with XP I
keep getting (what seems like propaganda) messages saying they are not
worth the effort.


No propaganda, just the results of years of experience. Registry
cleaners are without any redeeming value.




Even in the case you cite, a registry "cleaner" would be of no
particular benefit; Regedit's built-in Find feature would be more than
sufficient to find every McAfee entry within minutes. However, if
you're impatien, a simple registry *scanner* can save you a couple of
those minutes.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?_db_=B4=AF`=B7.._=3E=3C=29=29=29=BA

i have never said registry cleaners
are no good.

nor has microsoft ever said that
registry cleaners are not good as well.

http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/article/registry_cleaner_why.htm

it is unclear where you are obtaining
your information.

however, there are malicious softwares
that are disguised as registry cleaners

how does one know the difference?

by learning what the registry is and
what is for. however, there will be
those who have the knowledge but
are unwilling to share it with you..

always make a system restore point
before you fiddle around with
"Forbidden..... knowledge....<echoe here>"

--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
B

Bert Kinney

Most folk around here do not recommend the use if registry cleans do to the
unexpected results that may arise.

And have these instructions handy in the event Windows does not start.
Running System Restore from System Recovery Options:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/recovery.html

You will also want to test system restore to make sure it is functioning
correctly.

1. Create a new restore point named TEST.
2. Create a new shortcut on the desktop and point it to My Computer or any
other file of your choice and name it TEST.
3. Now restore to the Test restore point.

The system will now reboot, and you will receive a message if the restore
was successful, and the Test shortcut on the desktop will be gone.

I would also suggest installing the following utility before hand.
This utility will give you the ability to restore the registry if the system
fails to boot.
ERUNT: The Emergency Recovery Utility NT
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org
 
B

Bruce Chambers

db ´¯`·.. > said:
i have never said registry cleaners
are no good.

Only because you know no better.

nor has microsoft ever said that
registry cleaners are not good as well.

Then why did they discontinue Regclean, hmmmm?

Why do you persist spreading marketing hype instead of sound technical
advice?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
V

Vanguard

in message
db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . wrote: <snip - rambling blather

Why do you persist spreading marketing hype instead of sound
technical advice?

You actually bothered to reply to someone with such an obviously
childish moniker?
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?_db_=B4=AF`=B7.._=3E=3C=29=29=29=BA

oh bruce...

if it were not for me
you wouldn't have the
opportunity to impress
the world with all of
your wisdom -
some of which we have
yet to discover..<g>


--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
T

TBerk

OK, so I got some seemingly useful replies, Thanks for that.

Briefly in reply;

- Yes, it _does_ seem like an install(er) is at fault.

- The reason I would use a registry utility is that I have used them
in the past to remove apps/utils that would not easily uninstall.

- Yes I have used Regedit before, did on this system as well, but
wanted a more automated tool (if it could be trusted).


Thx for participating,
TBerk
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Vanguard said:
You actually bothered to reply to someone with such an obviously
childish moniker?

I know I shouldn't, but his nonsense and stubborn refusal to learn
anything (plus his malicious habit of posting in HTML) rubs me the
wrong way. And then, there is the off chance that some other newbie
might mistakenly take his advice, if a rebuttal isn't presented.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
?

=?Windows-1252?Q?_db_=B4=AF`=B7.._=3E=3C=29=29=29=

fortunately,
the world don't turn like
bruce chambers wants it
to.

besides, your rather a hyprocrite
since you use ccleaner registry
cleaner and it is highly likely
that you use others as well.

but right wing moralists
are just that, are they not.

incidently, aren't you an
mvp?

--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
B

Bruce Chambers

db ´¯`·.. > said:
fortunately,
the world don't turn like
bruce chambers wants it
to.


No, but at least I recognize reality; you haven't, as yet.

besides, your rather a hyprocrite
since you use ccleaner registry
cleaner and it is highly likely
that you use others as well.


I've *tested* several, so I know how to repair the damage they do, but
I don't "use" them.

but right wing moralists
are just that, are they not.

Perhaps, but what has that to do with anything? I'm not "right-wing;"
I make Ted Kennedy seem conservative.

incidently, aren't you an
mvp?

Yes, but aain, so what? Other than the fact that it means that
Microsoft has acknowledged that I post helpful and technically accurate
information.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
E

Edward W. Thompson

snip>
Yes, but aain, so what? Other than the fact that it means that Microsoft
has acknowledged that I post helpful and technically accurate information.


--

Bruce Chambers

snip

I am afraid many would consider an endorsement by Microsoft to be a paradox.
:).

With respect to the subject, I would not debate the benefits of Registry
Cleaners with respect to their claimed improvement of machine performance,
however, they do clean up what would otherwise be a bloated file, due to an
excessive number of redundant entries, if you are in the habit of
installing and uninstalling software, as many do.

You claim that Registry Managers, as a class, will damage the OS. I
specifically cite the OS as the claim is made by you and other that the use
of a Registry Manager will ultimately render the machine 'unbootable'. None
of the Registry Cleaners I have used have caused such a problem and I have
used one or another of these 'cleaners' for several years (Win95 onwards).
Please spare me the jibe that I have been lucky! Perhaps you would educate
me, and maybe others, to advise which of the many Registry Cleaners actually
do damage the Registry to the extent the machine becomes unbootable, you
appear to have this information. What Registry Cleaners may do is to
remove, or advise the removal, of empty Registry keys that are sometimes
required by some Programs. This may then cause those programs not to
function. If that occurs it is not difficult to make such Registry entries
as 'exclusions', most Registry Cleaner programs allow exclusions to be made.
If a Registry Cleaning program is shown to damage the OS, I am surprised
that the authors of such programs would not have corrected such errors.

With respect to repairing any damage a Registry Cleaner may do, simply
restoring the Registry either by the means incorporated in most, if not all,
Registry 'Cleaner' programs does that. There is also 'System Restore' (Ugh!)
and ERUNT to allow to recover from Registry problems. There is no
'expertise' required here. .

As you and others regularly caution, common sense requires that anyone
making changes to Registry either by using a 'Cleaner' or by 'manually
editing' (Regedit et al) must ensure they can reversed changes made in the
event of a problem arising.
 
?

=?Windows-1252?Q?_db_=B4=AF`=B7.._=3E=3C=29=29=29=

honestly, you have a way of making
me chuckle... {tested but not used}, etc....
<g>

the bottom line is that a few of you
guys like to "control". The most
recent method by one of your associates
is "Don't use registry cleaners, because
your system may not reboot" Apparently,
you guys are having a hard time to
unravel my rationalizations and are
now using "fear tactics"

of course, i don't believe "you" have
made such an outrageous remark but
you come d*mn close and likely
follow the path laid by others.

however, i consider the bashing
of Microsoft product by Microsoft
mvp's to be unethical and unsupportive
of assistance. if there is a lack of
integrity with loyalties, then it is likely a
lack of integrity with the information
provided as well.

let's be fair here, I could easily bash
Microsoft MVP's and I have in some
instances. However, just
because there a few old rotting apples
doesn't mean that the program to enlist
free labor by Microsoft as MVP's is
a bad one. Microsoft is very smart
by enlisting free customer support
via MVP's, aka Microsoft Volunteer
Program. The question is if
people who work for free are smart
as well.

Before you respond, let's be clear.
A real volunteer doesn't need to beg
Microsoft for an MVP title.

--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Edward said:
I am afraid many would consider an endorsement by Microsoft to be a paradox.
:).

It _is_ a two-edged sword, at times. ;-}

With respect to the subject, I would not debate the benefits of Registry
Cleaners with respect to their claimed improvement of machine performance,
however, they do clean up what would otherwise be a bloated file, due to an
excessive number of redundant entries, if you are in the habit of
installing and uninstalling software, as many do.

This is true, but the amount of hard drive space involved is virtually
microscopic. The word "bloat" is, in my experience, a huge exaggeration.

You claim that Registry Managers, as a class, will damage the OS. I
specifically cite the OS as the claim is made by you and other that the use
of a Registry Manager will ultimately render the machine 'unbootable'. None
of the Registry Cleaners I have used have caused such a problem and I have
used one or another of these 'cleaners' for several years (Win95 onwards).
Please spare me the jibe that I have been lucky! Perhaps you would educate
me, and maybe others, to advise which of the many Registry Cleaners actually
do damage the Registry to the extent the machine becomes unbootable, you
appear to have this information. What Registry Cleaners may do is to
remove, or advise the removal, of empty Registry keys that are sometimes
required by some Programs. This may then cause those programs not to
function. If that occurs it is not difficult to make such Registry entries
as 'exclusions', most Registry Cleaner programs allow exclusions to be made.
If a Registry Cleaning program is shown to damage the OS, I am surprised
that the authors of such programs would not have corrected such errors.



I don't recall anyone ever saying that the use of a registry cleaner
*will invariably* damage the OS or render machine unusable. Rather, we
have pointed out that the potential risk is there, and it just foolish
to run such a risk when there is no measurable benefit to be derived
from the use of such products.


With respect to repairing any damage a Registry Cleaner may do, simply
restoring the Registry either by the means incorporated in most, if not all,
Registry 'Cleaner' programs does that. There is also 'System Restore' (Ugh!)
and ERUNT to allow to recover from Registry problems. There is no
'expertise' required here. .


You've never met an average home computer user, have you? If you had,
you'd know that very few will heed warnings to make backups or allow the
application to do so.

As you and others regularly caution, common sense requires that anyone
making changes to Registry either by using a 'Cleaner' or by 'manually
editing' (Regedit et al) must ensure they can reversed changes made in the
event of a problem arising.


Sadly, though, common sense is very uncommon.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
B

Bruce Chambers

however, i consider the bashing
of Microsoft product by Microsoft
mvp's to be unethical and unsupportive
of assistance. if there is a lack of
integrity with loyalties, then it is likely a
lack of integrity with the information
provided as well.


You consider honesty to be unethical? How droll. And there's no issue
of "loyalty." I was given an award; I didn't join a cult. And I post
here to support the users, not Microsoft.

let's be fair here, I could easily bash
Microsoft MVP's and I have in some
instances.


You might make personal attacks, but you'd have no chance on technical
issues.

However, just
because there a few old rotting apples
doesn't mean that the program to enlist
free labor by Microsoft as MVP's is
a bad one. Microsoft is very smart
by enlisting free customer support
via MVP's, aka Microsoft Volunteer
Program. The question is if
people who work for free are smart
as well.

Before you respond, let's be clear.
A real volunteer doesn't need to beg
Microsoft for an MVP title.

The above doesn't even make sense. No one becomes an MVP by "begging,"
nor is there any requirement to parrot a party line.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 

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