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J
Joseph Johnson
In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B wins.
Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers working on
Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy, and Linux and
Open Source gives their low cost high quality programmers, the legitimate
software they need.
Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers working on
Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy, and Linux and
Open Source gives their low cost high quality programmers, the legitimate
software they need.
H
Harry Krause
Joseph said:In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B wins.
Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers working on
Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy, and Linux and
Open Source gives their low cost high quality programmers, the legitimate
software they need.
If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.
A
Alias
Harry said:If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.
Ubuntu 7.04 comes with an HP Printer Control Panel. Your printer will
work with 7.04. MS isn't bringing this patent crap up because they
aren't afraid of Linux. They're scared sh*tless.
Alias
J
Joey DoWop Dee
If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.
I'm not a Linux advocate, but I've used it and I disagree with two things in
your post.
I guess it depends on how you define "most desktop users", arguably a
generalized statement, but in my experience most desktop users that I deal
with are happy to surf the Internet, send e-mail and occasionally write a
letter and print it out.
Linux does that easily, with no software cost to the user.
Also, my 7-year-old HP 2100 installed with no effort on my part other than
selecting it from the list presented when I clicked on "Add printer."
Don't get me wrong: I'm still waiting for Vista to stabilize enough for me to
risk it on my existing hardware, but as for Linux, I see it as a very viable
alternative for anyone who doesn't want to spend a lot of money on software
and wants to do the three things I mentioned.
H
Harry Krause
Alias said:Ubuntu 7.04 comes with an HP Printer Control Panel. Your printer will
work with 7.04. MS isn't bringing this patent crap up because they
aren't afraid of Linux. They're scared sh*tless.
Alias
Ubuntu's printer control panel doesn't fully exploit the features of my
HP color laserjet. The printer driver in VISTA does.
H
Harry Krause
Joey said:I'm not a Linux advocate, but I've used it and I disagree with two things in
your post.
I guess it depends on how you define "most desktop users", arguably a
generalized statement, but in my experience most desktop users that I deal
with are happy to surf the Internet, send e-mail and occasionally write a
letter and print it out.
Linux does that easily, with no software cost to the user.
Also, my 7-year-old HP 2100 installed with no effort on my part other than
selecting it from the list presented when I clicked on "Add printer."
Don't get me wrong: I'm still waiting for Vista to stabilize enough for me to
risk it on my existing hardware, but as for Linux, I see it as a very viable
alternative for anyone who doesn't want to spend a lot of money on software
and wants to do the three things I mentioned.
Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
Yes, ubuntu found one of my printers, but the feature set its driver
offered was not nearly as good as the one available through VISTA.
A
Alias
Harry said:Ubuntu's printer control panel doesn't fully exploit the features of my
HP color laserjet. The printer driver in VISTA does.
What does Vista's drivers provide that Ubuntu's doesn't?
Alias
D
Doris Day - MFB
That is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with WindowsHarry said:Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
hardware prices have been continually going down because of competition in
a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises has
been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after version
of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly did
pay for that version of Windows you are now running.
Love and Kisses,
Doris.
F
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
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Hash: SHA512
manufacturers are grateful to MS and its production of ever-more complex
and resource-hungry software. Otherwise people would still be using
their 1.4 GHz Celerons that they bought 5 years ago.
The price MS charges OEMs is absurdly low. Or do you actually think
that $400 Dell would cost $200? If that were true, why don't Dell's
Linux boxes cost substantially less that their Windows boxes?
- --
Iron Feliks
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Hash: SHA512
You are truly clueless about the true nature of the world. HardwareThat is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with Windows
preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
hardware prices have been continually going down because of competition in
a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises has
been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after version
of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly did
pay for that version of Windows you are now running.
Love and Kisses,
Doris.
manufacturers are grateful to MS and its production of ever-more complex
and resource-hungry software. Otherwise people would still be using
their 1.4 GHz Celerons that they bought 5 years ago.
The price MS charges OEMs is absurdly low. Or do you actually think
that $400 Dell would cost $200? If that were true, why don't Dell's
Linux boxes cost substantially less that their Windows boxes?
- --
Iron Feliks
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFGScxgIEgejQPpTu4RCgOQAJ90MHPor9/EkXrz1kXT9ydpaYxWjgCcD5yR
poal8kHapTCqckw/dhGU40A=
=GbzJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
H
Harry Krause
Doris said:That is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with Windows
preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
hardware prices have been continually going down because of competition in
a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises has
been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after version
of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly did
pay for that version of Windows you are now running.
Love and Kisses,
Doris.
Yawn. Just what do you think a major purveyor such as Dell or HP pays MS
for a OS license? Not much.
I bought an OEM version of Vista. Considering that my computer booted up
the first time with it, and after it went through it various procedures,
it found ALL my existing hardware and installed drivers for it, and I
didn't waste any time searching, I got my moneysworth. Wasn't very
expensive, either.
Ubuntu booted up properly, but didn't find or properly install drivers
for half the hardware I have. And the command structure, good god, I
thought DOS 1.1 was cryptic.
This latest ubuntu was not the first time I messed about a bit with
Linux. I'm still not impressed with it. It is worth exactly what one
pays for it.
R
ray
If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.
You've obviously not tried Linux in the last two years. It will easily
satisfy the needs of 98% of users. It may take a little effort to INSTALL,
but so does MS. Once it is properly installed and set up it's no more
difficult to use that MS or MAC - it's just a little different. IMHO xp
may have been a 'B', vista is shaping up to be a 'C', Linux is an 'A-' and
MS sees the handwriting on the wall.
A
Alias
Harry said:Yawn. Just what do you think a major purveyor such as Dell or HP pays MS
for a OS license? Not much.
No one that's sensible buys either one.
I bought an OEM version of Vista. Considering that my computer booted up
the first time with it, and after it went through it various procedures,
it found ALL my existing hardware and installed drivers for it, and I
didn't waste any time searching, I got my moneysworth. Wasn't very
expensive, either.
Ubuntu booted up properly, but didn't find or properly install drivers
for half the hardware I have. And the command structure, good god, I
thought DOS 1.1 was cryptic.
Clicking on something is too complicated for you?
This latest ubuntu was not the first time I messed about a bit with
Linux. I'm still not impressed with it. It is worth exactly what one
pays for it.
No, it's worth it's weight in gold. No WPA. No WGA. No SPP. No DRM
restrictions. No viruses. No malware. AND, you don't need a new Ninja
computer to run it.
A friend of mine is repairing a computer loaded with XP. His copy of XP
is legitimate, purchased from a reputable computer store. Windows
Updates says that it isn't "genuine". The customer calls MS and is told
he has to buy another copy of XP. That's the kind of groovy thing that
happens with XP and Vista and will be their downfall. So, if you're
enjoying Vista, savor the moment, because soon MS will activate and
genuine itself right out of business.
Alias
A
Alias
up the first time with it, and after it went through it variousHarry said:I bought an OEM version of Vista. Considering that my computer booted
procedures, it found ALL my existing hardware and installed drivers for
it, and I didn't waste any time searching, I got my moneysworth. Wasn't
very expensive, either.
Yawn. Just what do you think a major purveyor such as Dell or HP pays MS
for a OS license? Not much.
No one that's sensible buys either one.
drivers for half the hardware I have. And the command structure, goodUbuntu booted up properly, but didn't find or properly install
god, I thought DOS 1.1 was cryptic.
Clicking on something is too complicated for you?
Linux. I'm still not impressed with it. It is worth exactly what oneThis latest ubuntu was not the first time I messed about a bit with
pays for it.
No, it's worth it's weight in gold. No WPA. No WGA. No SPP. No DRM
restrictions. No viruses. No malware. AND, you don't need a new Ninja
computer to run it.
A friend of mine is repairing a computer loaded with XP. His copy of XP
is legitimate, purchased from a reputable computer store. Windows
Updates says that it isn't "genuine". The customer calls MS and is told
he has to buy another copy of XP. That's the kind of groovy thing that
happens with XP and Vista and will be their downfall. So, if you're
enjoying Vista, savor the moment, because soon MS will activate and
genuine itself right out of business.
Alias
H
Harry Krause
ray said:You've obviously not tried Linux in the last two years. It will easily
satisfy the needs of 98% of users. It may take a little effort to INSTALL,
but so does MS. Once it is properly installed and set up it's no more
difficult to use that MS or MAC - it's just a little different. IMHO xp
may have been a 'B', vista is shaping up to be a 'C', Linux is an 'A-' and
MS sees the handwriting on the wall.
I tried ubuntu this past week...does that count?
Oh, and other than unwrapping VISTA and popping it into my DVD drive, it
took no effort to install VISTA.
H
Harry Krause
Alias said:No one that's sensible buys either one.
Clicking on something is too complicated for you?
No, it's worth it's weight in gold. No WPA. No WGA. No SPP. No DRM
restrictions. No viruses. No malware. AND, you don't need a new Ninja
computer to run it.
A friend of mine is repairing a computer loaded with XP. His copy of XP
is legitimate, purchased from a reputable computer store. Windows
Updates says that it isn't "genuine". The customer calls MS and is told
he has to buy another copy of XP. That's the kind of groovy thing that
happens with XP and Vista and will be their downfall. So, if you're
enjoying Vista, savor the moment, because soon MS will activate and
genuine itself right out of business.
Alias
If linux were so great, it would be the market leader. It ain't.
A
Alias
Harry said:If linux were so great, it would be the market leader. It ain't.
Being the market leader doesn't make something great. If you don't
believe me, ask GM about Toyota. It took some time, but the paying
public finally caught on. WPA, WGA, WGA/N, DRM restrictions and SPP WILL
be the final straws that kill Windows, especially now that Linux is so
much more user friendly than it used to be. Mark my words.
Alias
H
Harry Krause
Alias said:Being the market leader doesn't make something great. If you don't
believe me, ask GM about Toyota. It took some time, but the paying
public finally caught on. WPA, WGA, WGA/N, DRM restrictions and SPP WILL
be the final straws that kill Windows, especially now that Linux is so
much more user friendly than it used to be. Mark my words.
Alias
Linux ain't toyota. It's more like whatever cars are being made in the PRC.
A
Alias
Harry said:Linux ain't toyota. It's more like whatever cars are being made in the PRC.
Nothing like using an ill informed insult to dodge the issues brought
up. MS is scared sh*tless of Linux. What does MS know that you don't?
Alias
N
Nina DiBoy
Harry Krause wrote:
This is incorrect, they include the price of the OEM OS with the price
of the machine.
--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Very simple Nothing I like better than insulting Linsux losers, fanboys
and trolls like you."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
This is incorrect, they include the price of the OEM OS with the price
of the machine.
Yes, ubuntu found one of my printers, but the feature set its driver
offered was not nearly as good as the one available through VISTA.
--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Very simple Nothing I like better than insulting Linsux losers, fanboys
and trolls like you."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot