HP 970 v Epson 2200

[Paul L]

I currently own an HP 970, and I'm thinking about purchasing an Epson 2200 because of the Epson's reputation for outstanding photo print quality.

The thing is, reading the 970 reviews at epinions.com implies that the 970 may be good enough.

What do the "experts" here think? Should I stick with the 970 or upgrade to the Epson?

thanks,
paul

 

[Jdunn]

I currently own an HP 970, and I'm thinking about purchasing an Epson 2200 because of the Epson's reputation for outstanding photo print quality.

The thing is, reading the 970 reviews at epinions.com implies that the 970 may be good enough.

What do the "experts" here think? Should I stick with the 970 or upgrade to the Epson?

thanks,
paul

I have an HP 990 which is the same as the 970 with some extra tricks
like printing on both sides. Both use 4 color inks. I also have an Epson
890 and an Epson 2200. I am a photographer and do color managed printing
on all three.

Be aware that the Epson 2200 is a pigmented ink printer. The other two,
the 990 (thus 970) and the Epson 890 are Dye ink printers. The dye inks
have brighter colors and a larger gamut than the pigmented inks. On the
other hand the pigmented inks have much better longevity before fading
occurs. Epson has a 13x19 inch dye printer (1280/1290) which has
excellent photographic performance and is much cheaper than the 2200.

If you buy the 2200 you are buying it specifically for the Ultrachrome
inks with their tested longevity. If you intend to use third party inks,
save yourself some money and get the 1280/1290.


As for 'good enough' that is a personal matter.

 

[The village idiot]

I have an HP 990 which is the same as the 970 with some extra tricks
like printing on both sides. Both use 4 color inks. I also have an Epson
890 and an Epson 2200. I am a photographer and do color managed printing
on all three.

Be aware that the Epson 2200 is a pigmented ink printer. The other two,
the 990 (thus 970) and the Epson 890 are Dye ink printers. The dye inks
have brighter colors and a larger gamut than the pigmented inks. On the
other hand the pigmented inks have much better longevity before fading
occurs. Epson has a 13x19 inch dye printer (1280/1290) which has
excellent photographic performance and is much cheaper than the 2200.

If you buy the 2200 you are buying it specifically for the Ultrachrome
inks with their tested longevity. If you intend to use third party inks,
save yourself some money and get the 1280/1290.


As for 'good enough' that is a personal matter.

Personally, I like Epsons printers.So I would be biased in their favor. I
also use third party pigment inks in all of my Epsons with wonderful results.
The 1280/1290 would work well after converting to pigment inks, and the
prints would then last the same length of time. I use Generations inks from
http://www.mediastreet.com with my Epson 1520, 785epx, and pro 9500. All with
great success. You will however need to make adjustments because the pigment
inks do not have the same color as the Epson dye inks. Once you get the
colors worked out, you will be happy for the change.

 

[Paul L]

I have an HP 990 which is the same as the 970 with some extra tricks
like printing on both sides. Both use 4 color inks. I also have an Epson
890 and an Epson 2200. I am a photographer and do color managed printing
on all three.

Be aware that the Epson 2200 is a pigmented ink printer. The other two,
the 990 (thus 970) and the Epson 890 are Dye ink printers. The dye inks
have brighter colors and a larger gamut than the pigmented inks. On the
other hand the pigmented inks have much better longevity before fading
occurs. Epson has a 13x19 inch dye printer (1280/1290) which has
excellent photographic performance and is much cheaper than the 2200.

If you buy the 2200 you are buying it specifically for the Ultrachrome
inks with their tested longevity. If you intend to use third party inks,
save yourself some money and get the 1280/1290.


As for 'good enough' that is a personal matter.

I didn't realize that the HP was dye ink and the Epson pigmented. Thanks for clarifying.

It sounds like the main difference between the two - once calibrated to account for the ink difference - is print longetivity. Is that right?

 

[Jdunn]

I didn't realize that the HP was dye ink and the Epson pigmented. Thanks for clarifying.

It sounds like the main difference between the two - once calibrated to account for the ink difference - is print longetivity. Is that right?

NO,
The color gamut is different. They would look different.
The problem with 3rd party inks is thet most people use extremely cheap
ones that are inferior to inks like Gen 3.

 

[Bob Headrick]

I currently own an HP 970, and I'm thinking about purchasing
an Epson 2200 because of the Epson's reputation for outstanding
photo print quality.

The thing is, reading the 970 reviews at epinions.com implies that the
970 may be good enough.

You would be the best judge of whether the DeskJet 970 meets your needs. When
printing on HP Premium Plus Photo paper in Best mode the 970 can make pretty
respectable prints. Be sure to select the proper paper type in the driver, and
start with a good quality input file.

If you need a better photo capability you might take a look at the DeskJet
5650, which can print borderless 6 ink prints. It is $149, replacing the DJ
5550 which has now been discounted to $99. Either of these will give
comparable results when printing with the standard cartridges, but can
accommodate an optional photo cartridge which gives somewhat better photo
capability, particularly in light areas such as sky or faces.

If you want to get a bit more fancy the Photosmart 7960 holds three cartridges
and provides 8 ink printing. It is $299, and prints directly from various
photo cards as well as from a PC.

See the following for details of HP's lineup:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/ho/WF02a/18972-236251-64340.html for the
Photosmart printers and
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/ho/WF02a/18972-236251-236261.html for the
DeskJet models.

I would suggest you look at samples for any models you are considering and
comparing them to the results you can get out of your DeskJet 970. Send me an
email if you want to get a sample from the HP printers.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Flycaster]

[snip]

If you want to get a bit more fancy the Photosmart 7960 holds three cartridges
and provides 8 ink printing. It is $299, and prints directly from various
photo cards as well as from a PC.

Bob, tell us more about this printer. The spec. sheet seems particularly
vague about the "8 ink" feature; does it actually use 8 separate inks at a
time, or are several interchangeable? For example, how does it print color
on traditional glossy: CcMmYK, or some other variation? Also, does it use
dye based inks, or a dye/pigment hybrid?

No bone to pick, just curious and want to keep informed.

 

[Bob Headrick]

[snip]

If you want to get a bit more fancy the Photosmart 7960 holds three
cartridges and provides 8 ink printing. It is $299, and prints
directly from various photo cards as well as from a PC.

Bob, tell us more about this printer. The spec. sheet seems particularly
vague about the "8 ink" feature; does it actually use 8 separate inks at a
time, or are several interchangeable?
For example, how does it print color on traditional glossy:
CcMmYK, or some other variation? Also, does it use
dye based inks, or a dye/pigment hybrid?

The Photosmart 7960 prints very well on traditional glossy paper . With the
color, photo and gray cartrduges installed it prints CcMmYgGK (what you said
as well as light gray and gray). These are all dye based inks. The gray
cartrdige can be swapped for a pigmented black (single color) cartrdige for
printing text. Pigmented ink is not used when printing on glossy paper. The
printer ships with all four cartrdiges, but only three are used at a time. The
fourth is stored in a humidor built into the printer.

No bone to pick, just curious and want to keep informed.

The following are some reviews of the Photosmart 7960:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/hp7960.html
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/
http://dp-now.com/archives/000236.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/4505-3167_7-30470950.html

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Flycaster]

The Photosmart 7960 prints very well on traditional glossy paper . With the
color, photo and gray cartrduges installed it prints CcMmYgGK (what you said
as well as light gray and gray). These are all dye based inks. The gray
cartrdige can be swapped for a pigmented black (single color) cartrdige for
printing text. Pigmented ink is not used when printing on glossy paper. The
printer ships with all four cartrdiges, but only three are used at a time. The
fourth is stored in a humidor built into the printer.


The following are some reviews of the Photosmart 7960:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/hp7960.html
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/
http://dp-now.com/archives/000236.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/4505-3167_7-30470950.html

Thanks, I appreciate the info. For now, my Epson 2200 serves me quite well,
but it's great to see HP step up to the plate with a new high-end
competitive product. Not that they haven't in the past, but Epson, and more
lately Canon, have enjoyed a good run for a long time.

Just out of curiosity, does the bundeled software include with any canned
ICC profiles for use with color managed programs, or does HP have some
posted for download at the web-site? The reason I ask is almost anyone I
might recommend this printer to uses Photoshop; and, with OEM driver
software being what it is, without at least rudimentary paper profiles for
soft-proofing and color matching control, they probably wouldn't be
interested.

Thanks again.

 

[Ray]

Re this chat I have both an HP1218 and also use My Son's 2100 (Also known as
2200) From choice I always use the 1218, I can use a wide selection of
papers, I always use HP inks and the results on a wide range of papers are
very good. The 2100 is a good printer, you can even immerse the print under
water and it will still be OK. The limiting factor is that you can only use
Epson papers although TDK one's do work. Ink is expensive and generally the
running costs are much higher. Only problems I have ever had with Hp has
been two faulty in cartridges both in the last month. Personally would
never go to and get a 2100 for myself.

Ray

 

[Toby]

The whole point of the 2100/2200 is the use of pigment inks, which give a
considerably longer print life than those made with any dye ink printer. If
you don't care about longevity buying a 2100/2200 doesn't make sense really.

Toby

 

[John Eyles]

The 2100 is a good printer, you can even immerse the print under

water and it will still be OK. The limiting factor is that you
can only use Epson papers although TDK one's do work.

This is absurdly false !

John

 

[Paul L]

So if I don't care about print longetivity, what *does* make sense?

 

[R.E. Jeffery]

Would be delighted to see a full list of other papers used plus settings.

Ray

 

[John Eyles]

Would be delighted to see a full list of other papers used plus settings.

That would be a huge list. I am trying to do B&W, which, contrary to
Epson's hype, can NOT be done "out of the box" with the 2200. And is
quite a bit more difficult to get right than is color. In fact,
there is a whole yahoo discussion group on doing B&W inkjet printing.

The two non-Epson papers that people seem to mention the most for
B&W printing (including on the 2200) are Hahnemuhle PhotoRag and
Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl (for matte and semi-gloss, respectively).
As far as settings - well, people are doing stuff like using after-
market RIPs, some free and some very expensive.

Perhaps the original comment ("only works with Epson papers") refers
to the fact that Epson doesn't include profiles for non-Epson papers.
But I imagine some of the Epson profiles would work pretty well with
some of these papers.

Here is a pretty good webpage that summarizes media recommendations
for UltraChrome inks:

http://www.inkjetart.com/EpsonStylusPhoto2200/media.html

Good luck, John

 

[Ray]

Thanks for info. you where right in your assumption re Epson profiles, HP
at least do give some latitude. Will check out links suggested, appreciate
reply.

Thanks

Ray

 

[Bob Headrick]

[snip] [regarding the Photosmart 7960]

Just out of curiosity, does the bundeled software include with any canned
ICC profiles for use with color managed programs, or does HP have some
posted for download at the web-site? The reason I ask is almost anyone I
might recommend this printer to uses Photoshop; and, with OEM driver
software being what it is, without at least rudimentary paper profiles for
soft-proofing and color matching control, they probably wouldn't be
interested.

The Photosmart 7960 support ICC profiles but I have not seen any for download
on the web sites yet.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Flycaster]

[snip] [regarding the Photosmart 7960]

Just out of curiosity, does the bundeled software include with any canned
ICC profiles for use with color managed programs, or does HP have some
posted for download at the web-site? The reason I ask is almost anyone I
might recommend this printer to uses Photoshop; and, with OEM driver
software being what it is, without at least rudimentary paper profiles for
soft-proofing and color matching control, they probably wouldn't be
interested.

The Photosmart 7960 support ICC profiles but I have not seen any for download
on the web sites yet.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

Thanks Bob.