How to guarantee full backup of system C: drive

G

Guest

I have carefully read many of the descriptions by MS and other sources on backing up and restoring in Windows XP Professional using NTBACKUP.EXE. However, I still remain confused as to just how to do a complete backup of the C: (system) drive, including system files, configuration, all program files I have installed there, all data files, etc. The various help files seem vague on this point. I wish to backup everything on C: to the D: drive so that I can fully recover my C: drive. I understand that I should perform an Automated System Recovery (ASR) backup which will create the .BKF file, for example in D:\Backups (containing system files and state), and also the floppy disk recovery file for ASR. I also understand that this process will not backup my data files, perhaps not my installed programs on C. Therefore, I understand I should also perform a separate NTBACKUP.EXE backup of the C: drive let us say also to D:\Backups (with a different target file name).

In which order should I perform these backup processes, ASR versus standard C: backup? Regarding the non-ASR backup, should I mark the entire C: drive contents to be backed up, or just certain directories?--perhaps not the \Windows directory? Should I check “System State†in the list of things to back up for the non-ASR backup?

And when I go to restore a failed installation, I assume I run the ASR floppy first and restore the operating system (which formats the C: drive). Do I then restore from the non-ASR backup over the ASR backup, and do I uncheck certain directories or restore everything that is there?

Thank you for any clarification you can provide.
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

To recover from a system failure using Automated System Recovery:

1. Make sure you have the following items before you begin the recovery procedure:
--Your previously created Automated System Recovery (ASR) floppy disk.
--Your previously created backup media.
--The original operating system installation CD.
2. Insert the original operating system installation CD into your CD drive.
3. Restart your computer. If prompted to press a key in order to start the computer from CD, press the
appropriate key.
4. Press F2 when prompted during the text-only mode section of Setup.
You will be prompted to insert the ASR floppy disk you have previously created.
5. Follow the directions on the screen.

BackUp MyPC is a powerful yet easy to use data protection
and disaster recovery solution for a single computer or
peer-to-peer network. Conveniently backup important files
or your entire computer while you're not even around using
our advanced scheduling system.
http://www.stompinc.com/bump/bump-retail.phtml

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


| I have carefully read many of the descriptions by MS and other sources on backing up and restoring in
Windows XP Professional using NTBACKUP.EXE. However, I still remain confused as to just how to do a complete
backup of the C: (system) drive, including system files, configuration, all program files I have installed
there, all data files, etc. The various help files seem vague on this point. I wish to backup everything on
C: to the D: drive so that I can fully recover my C: drive. I understand that I should perform an Automated
System Recovery (ASR) backup which will create the .BKF file, for example in D:\Backups (containing system
files and state), and also the floppy disk recovery file for ASR. I also understand that this process will
not backup my data files, perhaps not my installed programs on C. Therefore, I understand I should also
perform a separate NTBACKUP.EXE backup of the C: drive let us say also to D:\Backups (with a different target
file name).
|
| In which order should I perform these backup processes, ASR versus standard C: backup? Regarding the
non-ASR backup, should I mark the entire C: drive contents to be backed up, or just certain
directories?--perhaps not the \Windows directory? Should I check “System State†in the list of things to back
up for the non-ASR backup?
|
| And when I go to restore a failed installation, I assume I run the ASR floppy first and restore the
operating system (which formats the C: drive). Do I then restore from the non-ASR backup over the ASR backup,
and do I uncheck certain directories or restore everything that is there?
|
| Thank you for any clarification you can provide.
|
 
M

mrtee

Do an ASR backupup using the ASR wizard. EVERYTHING on the system drive (except for XP) is copied to the .bkf file.

You do realize that you can not use CD or DVD for backup puposes - the destination has to be a HDD, floppies (yeah, right) or a tape drive.

When you boot from the XP CD and press f2 to run the ASR wizard you will be given specific instructions to follow. You only need the ASR .bkf file and the created floppy to resore your system to what it was when you created the set.

--
Just my 2¢ worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________
| I have carefully read many of the descriptions by MS and other sources on backing up and restoring in Windows XP Professional using NTBACKUP.EXE. However, I still remain confused as to just how to do a complete backup of the C: (system) drive, including system files, configuration, all program files I have installed there, all data files, etc. The various help files seem vague on this point. I wish to backup everything on C: to the D: drive so that I can fully recover my C: drive. I understand that I should perform an Automated System Recovery (ASR) backup which will create the .BKF file, for example in D:\Backups (containing system files and state), and also the floppy disk recovery file for ASR. I also understand that this process will not backup my data files, perhaps not my installed programs on C. Therefore, I understand I should also perform a separate NTBACKUP.EXE backup of the C: drive let us say also to D:\Backups (with a different target file name).
|
| In which order should I perform these backup processes, ASR versus standard C: backup? Regarding the non-ASR backup, should I mark the entire C: drive contents to be backed up, or just certain directories?--perhaps not the \Windows directory? Should I check “System State†in the list of things to back up for the non-ASR backup?
|
| And when I go to restore a failed installation, I assume I run the ASR floppy first and restore the operating system (which formats the C: drive). Do I then restore from the non-ASR backup over the ASR backup, and do I uncheck certain directories or restore everything that is there?
|
| Thank you for any clarification you can provide.
|
 
G

Guest

Thank you for your response.

Yes, the target drive I have in mind, the D: drive, is a 2nd hard drive

I take it that the process of reinstalling XP at the time of an ASR restore plus the restore of files in the ASR BKF file will fully restore all files on the C: drive, rignt

One more question-- can the process of running an ASR backup be automated by means of a batch file? More specifically, is the command

ntbackup backup systemstate C: /F "D:\Backups\BackupFile.BKF

equivalent to running an ASR backup in the interactive program, and are the files needed for the floppy generated in c:\Windows\Repair with this command

Thanks again

Michae
 
G

Guest

Actually, the ASR wizard states "To ensure that your data files can also be restored, use the Backup wizard to create a separate backup of your data files after completing the wizard

So apparently the ASR wizard does not in itself make a complete backup of the system drive. So I am back to my original question

There clearly is some confusion on this topic.
 
G

Guest

Hello Carey

I wonder if you would consider answering the question I asked. And I would prefer to use the intrinsic capability of Windows XP rather than a 3rd party product if I can do so with success

Thanks
 
M

mrtee

I used ASR for a 1½ years until I purchased a imaging program.

The ASR .bkf file is a copy of the entire system drive, except for the OS (XP) which is reinstalled when you press f2 while booting from the XP CD.

The help file is not accurate. If you have access to another HDD (same size or larger) you can test it out. Create the set, take out your system drive, replace it with the larger HDD and run ASR on boot.

Please note that if you change the size of any partition, change the letter or name that a new set will need to be made or the changed partitions will be formatted to what they were when the set was made (they will be empty).

Remember also that the documents, pictures, music, etc. that will be restored will be the same as when the .bkf was created. Therefore a daily .bkf creation would be the route to take. I keep those items on a separate HDD now. But when I used ASR everything was on 1 HDD in "C".

I did not attempt to automate the creation process so I cant answer that question (11:51 PM CST).

--
Just my 2¢ worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________
| Actually, the ASR wizard states "To ensure that your data files can also be restored, use the Backup wizard to create a separate backup of your data files after completing the wizard.
|
| So apparently the ASR wizard does not in itself make a complete backup of the system drive. So I am back to my original question.
|
| There clearly is some confusion on this topic.
 
G

Guest

Thank you again, mrtee, this is very helpful, and far more than 2 cents worth--I appreciate hearing about your experience and also your final decision to switch to an imaging program (I assume you mean like Norton ghost)

You are confirming what I have suspected, that the help files and the ASR wizard startup dialog are INCORRECT in saying ""To ensure that your data files can also be restored, use the Backup wizard to create a separate backup of your data files after completing the [ASR] wizard.

When I have tried doing regular C: backup versus C: backup via ASR, both types of backup seem to contain the data files on C: and program files I have caused to be installed in C:\Windows\System32, etc. -- I have not been able to spot any user-installed files that are missing

Your final warning is also very pertinent and I'll rephrase it to be certain I've got this straight: ..."If you change the size of any partition, change the drive letter or drive volume name from what they were when the ASR backup is made, the changed partitions will be formatted to duplicate what they were when the ASR set was made and therefore they will be empty." This is a major potential flaw and disappointment in using NTBackup.exe to a 2nd hard drive as the sole method of backup of the computer, since in the past (with Windows NT4) I have been able to count on the process of converting a secondary to a primary hard drive not corrupting the partitions and data on the nonsytem drive volumes of the disk being converted

My current plan, similar to what I have done on other computers, is to have multiple partitions on the primary drive (C:, V:, Y:, X:) and to mirror most of these files to the 2nd hard drive as D:, W:, Z:, and T:, respectively. I will do frequent if not daily NTBackup backups of the C: drive with ASR (saving these on V: and W:), and with normal automated batch file backups for the remaining primary drive volumes, e.g., backing up Y: to Y: and Z: With your warning, looks like I'll have to copy the backup files across the network to remote storage as well to be certain I don't lose it--hate to do this because of large BKF files sizes and very slow data transfer

One final observation: a friend tried to show me how to install Norton ghost to do a restore after I repartitioned my primary XP Professional system drive. The program locked up the computer completely and beyond repair with the RECOVERY CONSOLE and I had to to a clean reinstall (lacking an ASR backup at the time). I believe Norton Ghost did not understand what to do with my SATA drives..

Thank you again

Michae

PS:

Here is a simple batch file I wrote to automate the backup of non-system non-ASR volumes such as Y

FOR /F "tokens=2-4 DELIMS=/ " %%F IN ('date /T') DO (set YYYYMMDD=%%H%%F%%G
ECHO Will backup Y drive unless abort with Ctrl-C
ECHO
Pause
REM Invoke ntbackup.exe adding today's date to the file nam
Echo o
ntbackup backup Y: /F "Y:\Backups\BackupY_%YYYYMMDD%.bkf" /M Cop
REM Copy backup file from Y: to mirror drive Z:
copy Y:\Backups\BackupY_%YYYYMMDD%.bkf Z:\Backup
 
M

mrtee

Sounds good Michael.

Yes, if you would perchance change the size of any 1 of your partitions say V from 10 gigs to 8 gigs and didn't make a new ASR set the V would be restored (by formatting) to 10 gigs and empty. It looks as if the help file borrowed some paragraphs from System Restore which does not backup documents (does not monitor certain extensions) for restoration.

With as many partitions that you are working with I would suggest that you take a look at this page www.acronis.com. I use their TrueImage and Partition Expert programs. Images are made directly from within Windows (keep right on working) and restored by booting with the boot disk that you create from the program, I did a compressed image of my C drive this morning - 10 gigs took about an hour and it can be restored in 12 minutes. The program also includes automated backups and will verify the image files.

Glad I could be of help.

--
Just my 2¢ worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________
| Thank you again, mrtee, this is very helpful, and far more than 2 cents worth--I appreciate hearing about your experience and also your final decision to switch to an imaging program (I assume you mean like Norton ghost).
|
| You are confirming what I have suspected, that the help files and the ASR wizard startup dialog are INCORRECT in saying ""To ensure that your data files can also be restored, use the Backup wizard to create a separate backup of your data files after completing the [ASR] wizard."
|
| When I have tried doing regular C: backup versus C: backup via ASR, both types of backup seem to contain the data files on C: and program files I have caused to be installed in C:\Windows\System32, etc. -- I have not been able to spot any user-installed files that are missing.
|
| Your final warning is also very pertinent and I'll rephrase it to be certain I've got this straight: ..."If you change the size of any partition, change the drive letter or drive volume name from what they were when the ASR backup is made, the changed partitions will be formatted to duplicate what they were when the ASR set was made and therefore they will be empty." This is a major potential flaw and disappointment in using NTBackup.exe to a 2nd hard drive as the sole method of backup of the computer, since in the past (with Windows NT4) I have been able to count on the process of converting a secondary to a primary hard drive not corrupting the partitions and data on the nonsytem drive volumes of the disk being converted.
|
| My current plan, similar to what I have done on other computers, is to have multiple partitions on the primary drive (C:, V:, Y:, X:) and to mirror most of these files to the 2nd hard drive as D:, W:, Z:, and T:, respectively. I will do frequent if not daily NTBackup backups of the C: drive with ASR (saving these on V: and W:), and with normal automated batch file backups for the remaining primary drive volumes, e.g., backing up Y: to Y: and Z: With your warning, looks like I'll have to copy the backup files across the network to remote storage as well to be certain I don't lose it--hate to do this because of large BKF files sizes and very slow data transfer.
|
| One final observation: a friend tried to show me how to install Norton ghost to do a restore after I repartitioned my primary XP Professional system drive. The program locked up the computer completely and beyond repair with the RECOVERY CONSOLE and I had to to a clean reinstall (lacking an ASR backup at the time). I believe Norton Ghost did not understand what to do with my SATA drives...
|
| Thank you again,
|
| Michael
|
| PS:
|
| Here is a simple batch file I wrote to automate the backup of non-system non-ASR volumes such as Y:
|
| FOR /F "tokens=2-4 DELIMS=/ " %%F IN ('date /T') DO (set YYYYMMDD=%%H%%F%%G)
| ECHO Will backup Y drive unless abort with Ctrl-C
| ECHO.
| Pause
| REM Invoke ntbackup.exe adding today's date to the file name
| Echo on
| ntbackup backup Y: /F "Y:\Backups\BackupY_%YYYYMMDD%.bkf" /M Copy
| REM Copy backup file from Y: to mirror drive Z:
| copy Y:\Backups\BackupY_%YYYYMMDD%.bkf Z:\Backups
|
|
 
M

mrtee

One more thought, restoring an image of the C drive means that XP is already activated. I keep images of an XP only install, an image of XP with my tweaking programs and all updates, and at least 2 current images of installs with all programs.
 
P

Peter Wilkins

With as many partitions that you are working with I would suggest that you take a look at this page www.acronis.com. I use their TrueImage and Partition Expert programs. Images are made directly from within Windows (keep right on working) and restored by booting with the boot disk that you create from the program, I did a compressed image of my C drive thismorning - 10 gigs took about an hour and it can be restored in 12 minutes. The program also includes automated backups and will verify theimage files.
Click to expand...
MrT, I've been toying with the idea of getting Acronis TruImage, but
I'm a cheapskate and already have and use Norton Ghost, so have been
reluctant to spend money if there is no real advantage. Could you
please spare the time to give your impression of it?

Ghost works fine, but I find it very slow on my desktop system - it's
really an overnight job for me to do a full system backup and verify,
which is impossible if I want to backup directly to CD - I have to
stay up to feed it 12 CD's. So I normally system backup to a 2nd HDD.
Also it goes to DOS and the system is unuseable for anything else
while the backup goes on for hours and hours.

Now I have a new laptop, which has no 2nd HDD, and I need to
reconsider my backup options for that. It only has the one partition
with WinXPPro preinstalled, and while it's under warranty I don't want
to create a backup partition so I can do a full system backup up to
HDD, but I can do a backup to DVD or CD.

Could you please give a few words on how you rate Acronis TrueImage -
and how you find using it in practice? Any niggles or quirks?
I've been to the site and read their blurb, but I'd like to get a
users impressions before laying out hard cash.

BTW, I use Cobian backup to regularly backup my data, and it does it
on schedule automatically in the background, but it can't do a full
system backup nor will it backup my encrypted files. TruImage sounds
as if it could do both tasks conveniently - regular scheduled data
backups and less frequent full system backups.

TIA
 
G

Guest

Good idea Jeff regarding Acronis, I’ve just read the PC Magazine June 17, 2003 articles about these products (Acronis True Image 7.0 $50 and Acronis PartitionExpert 2003 $50) and have written Acronis to see if they support SATA drives adequately in Windows XP Professional. Do you also need their product Acronis RecoveryExpert $30, or are the two programs you mentioned fully adequate for restoring a failed system from hard disk images?

Would you be willing to explain a little more what you mean by “...restoring an image of the C drive means that XP is already activated. I keep images of an (1) XP only install, (2) an image of XP with my tweaking programs and all updates, and (3) at least 2 current images of installs with all programs.†If you use Acronis TrueImage, does this mean you still have to manually reinstall Windows XP and other tweaks before you can restore a system partition from a secondary disk partition?

Many Thanks, Michael
 
M

mrtee

__________in line responses to__________
MrT, I've been toying with the idea of getting Acronis TruImage, but
I'm a cheapskate and already have and use Norton Ghost, so have been
reluctant to spend money if there is no real advantage. Could you
please spare the time to give your impression of it?

A. I'll try.

Ghost works fine, but I find it very slow on my desktop system - it's
really an overnight job for me to do a full system backup and verify,
which is impossible if I want to backup directly to CD - I have to
stay up to feed it 12 CD's. So I normally system backup to a 2nd HDD.
Also it goes to DOS and the system is unuseable for anything else
while the backup goes on for hours and hours.

A. With TrueImage I can split the file to CD size chunks in the image file, then if I want to burn to CD later I can. TrueImage works directly in Windows i.e. I can read e-mail, newsgroups, play solitaire, work in Office, etc. I haven't run into any problems yet. As I stated I ran it this morning and it wrote 9.57 GB from my C drive to the image file in about an hour. That file is 6.4 GB. The image file can be mounted to a HDD with Windows open and files copied from it if needed.

Now I have a new laptop, which has no 2nd HDD, and I need to
reconsider my backup options for that. It only has the one partition
with WinXPPro preinstalled, and while it's under warranty I don't want
to create a backup partition so I can do a full system backup up to
HDD, but I can do a backup to DVD or CD.

A. As above, also does DVD (don't have one).

Could you please give a few words on how you rate Acronis TrueImage -
and how you find using it in practice? Any niggles or quirks?
I've been to the site and read their blurb, but I'd like to get a
users impressions before laying out hard cash.

A. I have had no problems with the program. Started out using version 6 which worked fine. It has now been upgraded to version 7.0.584, the interface is straight forward and easy to navigate.

BTW, I use Cobian backup to regularly backup my data, and it does it
on schedule automatically in the background, but it can't do a full
system backup nor will it backup my encrypted files. TruImage sounds
as if it could do both tasks conveniently - regular scheduled data
backups and less frequent full system backups.

A. I know nothing about Cobian. TrueImage will do incremental backups after the full image is written. It will also verify the image. TI will also write a script to automatically run it when specified (haven't tried that yet).

After the program is installed you burn a bootable CD which is used to boot the computer and restore an image. The last restore I did took 12 minutes. Everything was there, booted right up with no problem.

If needed, you can increase or decrease the size of the partition that you are restoring to.

Acronis does have a users manual (PDF) that you might want to download and look at. There is some very good information in it about HDDs, partitions, etc.

TIA
 
M

mrtee

__________in line responses to__________
| Good idea Jeff regarding Acronis, I’ve just read the PC Magazine June 17, 2003 articles about these products (Acronis True Image 7.0 $50 and Acronis PartitionExpert 2003 $50) and have written Acronis to see if they support SATA drives adequately in Windows XP Professional. Do you also need their product Acronis RecoveryExpert $30, or are the two programs you mentioned fully adequate for restoring a failed system from hard disk images?
A. I use TrueImage and PartitionExpert. I do have RecoveryExpert, got it as a freebie for upgrading TI to version 7, but I haven't used it nor do I see a need for it with my system.

| Would you be willing to explain a little more what you mean by “...restoring an image of the C drive means that XP is already activated. I keep images of an (1) XP only install, (2) an image of XP with my tweaking programs and all updates, and (3) at least 2 current images of installs with all programs.†If you use Acronis TrueImage, does this mean you still have to manually reinstall Windows XP and other tweaks before you can restore a system partition from a secondary disk partition?

A. Many people worry about activation - will it activate if I do this or that, over the internet or a "shudder" 5 minute phone call - the image that is saved was activated, so that when it is restored the activation files are still in place. That goes for any software, like Office, etc. When I restored using ASR I had to call a couple of times to reactivate.

If I just want to run XP I can restore that image, install a program for testing or goofing around with and not have the baggae of other programs in the way, When finished doing that I just restore my latest image (about 12 minutes) then install the new program if I want to, play with it for a while, then reimage the drive.

See the post to Peter (same thread) for some more information.

For me TrueImage works "slicker than sn*t on a doorknob", there is no learning curve, everything is straight forward and easy to do.


| Many Thanks, Michael
 
G

Guest

Ok, I think I get what you mean. It's nice to know that the image restored itself has been activated. Thanks for all the help. I'll try Acronis out if they say it works on SATA drives.

Michael
 
M

mrtee

Glad I could help Michael.

--
Just my 2¢ worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________
| Ok, I think I get what you mean. It's nice to know that the image restored itself has been activated. Thanks for all the help. I'll try Acronis out if they say it works on SATA drives.
|
| Michael
 
M

mrtee

You're wilcome.

--
Just my 2¢ worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________

And did a pretty fine job. Thanks for all that info, and I will
download the pdf and have a good read before deciding.

Thanks a lot.
 

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