How can I test whether a printer has true PostScript?

  • Thread starter Julian Vrieslander
  • Start date
Z

zakezuke

You mean kermit uses a protocol other than TCP? And it'd be a
different protocol being spoken on the wire when you use kermit
instead of telnet to connect to the printer's port 9100?
Or you mean just the telnet client bundled with some OS? I've been
using the telnet client on Linux and Solaris for that purpose, and
never got doubled prompts.

It's been years since I used Kermit, like circa solaris 4.1.3.... but I
understand where he's comming from. I for example used it on a sunbox
to talk to things on the serial port... like a modem when some systems
were not on the net. Basicly kermit raw acts a heck of alot like
telnet only you can tell it not react to control characters which is
handy when the machine you are trying to control isn't the the one
running telnet.
 
M

Marek Williams

Well, I've never seen a PostScript RIP that didn't show at least one weird bug. But you may
rely on that every Adobe licensed RIP - as far as my experience shows - exhibits the same but,
whereas RIPs from different other vendors usually have different bugs.

But in everyday life, it should not matter if it is an Adobe RIP or not. But you should
check the version, as the major version number (the part preceding the dot) tells you
what additional features are (or should be) built in or not.

For most people, most of the time, it doesn't matter. But for all
people it will matter eventually.

I have several printers, some with Adobe and some with Xionics
emulation. (Xionics is the outfit Hewlett-Packard licenses their
emulation from.) I have a couple points to make:

1) On the emulation printers documents with even slightly complex
pages print much more slowly than on the genuine Adobe printers. This
is especially true for PDF files.

2) Once in a while there is a glitch. A font fails to print all
characters correctly. Or a grayscale prints too dark/light. Or
something. Usually I can alter the file to work around the problem.
But it takes extra time and blood pressure.

3) If it's genuine Adobe and it screws up, you can call Adobe and
bitch about it. In my experience, they're very good at finding a
solution. If it's emulation, good luck.

And yes, I am satisfied with my printers that have emulation. But I
have quite a bit of experience with them and am able to handle the
occasional problem. Not everyone is as experienced.
 
J

Jim Land

GEE, I WAS PRETTY SURE KERMIT WAS A FROG. IE KERMIT DA FROG ON DA
MUPPETS

From Wikipedia:

Kermit was named for the Kermit the Frog from the Muppets.

Kermit is a computer file transfer/management protocol and a set of
communications software tools; it provides a consistent approach to file
transfer, terminal emulation, script programming, and character set
conversion across many different computer hardware and OS platforms.

The Kermit protocol allows for transferring text and binary files on both
full-duplex and half-duplex 8 bit and 7-bit serial connections in a
system- and medium-independent fashion, and is implemented on hundreds of
different computer and operating system platforms.

Over the more than 20 years since its inception, the Kermit protocol has
evolved into a worldwide de facto data communications standard, and the
software has been used for tasks ranging from simple student assignments
to solving compatibility problems aboard the International Space Station.
 
M

me

Can you look at the drivers for the printer to give you a clue?
Printing the printer test page it tells me which driver files are in
use, for mine it includes a PPD file, which is a slight hint as its a
text Postscript Printer file, which introduces itself with an Adobe(R).
 
A

Aandi Inston

Can you look at the drivers for the printer to give you a clue?
Printing the printer test page it tells me which driver files are in
use, for mine it includes a PPD file, which is a slight hint as its a
text Postscript Printer file, which introduces itself with an Adobe(R).

Caution needs to be applied here, since Adobe *is* a registered
trademark whoever uses it.
 
A

Aandi Inston

Julian Vrieslander said:
Wotta genius. I had already downloaded and searched the user guide,
thank you very much. It lists PostScript as a supported language, but
does not state whether the interpreter code is licensed from Adobe, or
is based on emulation.

You were pretty quick to dismiss this excellent advice. The manual is
pretty definitive. It never once says Adobe PostScript (this is a
trademark that, when used in this way, indicates Adobe-supplied
PostScript; while PostScript alone is a trademark which implies no
particular origin). There is no Adobe PostScript logo.

Adobe PostScript costs the printer manufacturer substantially more,
and is a selling point. It would say so, both in the manual, and in
all the publicity material. Contrast with the 5500 material
http://www.direct.xerox.com/direct/...etails.cfm/product/xerox_5500__B_printer.html
 
M

me

Aandi Inston said:
Caution needs to be applied here, since Adobe *is* a registered
trademark whoever uses it.

OK, it continues: Adobe Systems PostScript(R) Printer Description File
 
A

Aandi Inston

OK, it continues: Adobe Systems PostScript(R) Printer Description File

Adobe PostScript would be a trademark and supposedly indicate true
Adobe interpreters, but since most people make a PPD by hacking
another this can't really be relied upon.
 
C

Chapman Flack

LEE said:
You mean kermit uses a protocol other than TCP? And it'd be a
different protocol being spoken on the wire when you use kermit
instead of telnet to connect to the printer's port 9100?

TCP is the transport layer protocol. TELNET is an application protocol
layered on top of TCP (see ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc854.txt
and its various companion RFCs). Basically what telnet adds on top of
TCP is a set of conventions for representing newlines and control
characters, and echoing characters locally or waiting for the remote
to echo them and so on. The TELNET protocol is 'close enough' to raw
TCP that people frequently use a telnet client to connect to ports used
for other protocols; it's pretty easy for example to telnet to an SMTP
port
and send mail. But there are times when the extra transformation the
TELNET protocol does to your keystrokes gets in the way.

In particular, TELNET protocol must always represent newline with the
two character sequence CR LF. It happens that PostScript is defined to
accept either CR alone, LF alone, or CR LF as a line ending, and
depending on how the %statementedit device in your PS interpreter
happens to be implemented, the PS executive could wind up seeing
two newlines every single time you hit Enter, and giving you two
prompts.
Also, you'll usually want to turn off local telnet echo so you see only
the
character echoed by the PS executive. There are lots of options that
can
be set on a telnet client and you can get it working close to right,
but at
least on my telnet client there was no way to get a completely raw
connection.

By contrast kermit has a /raw-socket option that does exactly what it
says:
it opens a TCP socket and layers no protocol at all over the top of it.
It sends
your keystrokes over the socket and displays what comes back. :)
In practice the Adobe interpreter in my printer seems to send LF alone
when
it sends a newline, and it is handy to tell kermit to display LF as
CRLF.
So I have a macro in .mykermrc that just looks like this (aslaksen is
the name
of the printer):

define ASLAKSEN {
set terminal lf-display crlf
set host aslaksen 9100 /raw-socket
output executive\13
input 5 \10PS>
if fail end 1
connect /quietly
}

(set terminal lf-display appeared in C Kermit 8.0.212.)
Kermit does a lot more than serial-port communication these days. :)

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/

-Chap
 
S

Scott Hemphill

Jim Land said:
From Wikipedia:

Kermit was named for the Kermit the Frog from the Muppets.

Perhaps it was, but I'd like to see an authoritative source. I know when
it was implemented on the Macintosh, there was a Kermit the Frog icon, but
I remember seeing an acronym in 1981 or 1982. I googled for it and found
some later source code which matches my memory:

"KERMIT STANDS FOR (K)L10 (E)RROR-FREE (R)ECIPROCAL (M)ICROPROCESSOR
(I)NTERCHANGE OVER (T)TY LINES"

The KL10 (also called KL20) was the processor in the DECsystem-20, and
the original source was written in the assembly language MACRO-20. It
was written by Bill Catchings and Frank da Cruz at Columbia University
in April 1981.

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/cdrom/rsx11/rsx84a/356040/170kermi.for
http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp10.html

Scott
 
R

Reuti

Aandi Inston said:
You were pretty quick to dismiss this excellent advice. The manual is
pretty definitive. It never once says Adobe PostScript (this is a
trademark that, when used in this way, indicates Adobe-supplied
PostScript; while PostScript alone is a trademark which implies no
particular origin). There is no Adobe PostScript logo.

What about the logo on this page:

http://www.adobe.com/products/postscript/main.html

Some printers from e.g. Oki had this on their casing - but newer ones
not. I concluded that they changed because of this.
 
J

Julian Vrieslander

You were pretty quick to dismiss this excellent advice. The manual is
pretty definitive. It never once says Adobe PostScript (this is a
trademark that, when used in this way, indicates Adobe-supplied
PostScript; while PostScript alone is a trademark which implies no
particular origin). There is no Adobe PostScript logo.

Adobe PostScript costs the printer manufacturer substantially more,
and is a selling point. It would say so, both in the manual, and in
all the publicity material. Contrast with the 5500 material
http://www.direct.xerox.com/direct/public/products/xerox_product_details.cfm/p
roduct/xerox_5500__B_printer.html

The manual for the Phaser 3500 mentions "PostScript" many times, but the
phrase "Adobe PostScript" does not appear anywhere. It contains the
text "Adobe (r)", but only in the usual boilerplate listing of
trademarks for all third-party products that may be associated with the
text. I printed some internal test pages, and these do not contain any
mention of Adobe. The PPD file contains a disclaimer that (if anything)
seems to deny any connection to Adobe.

*PPD-Adobe: "4.3"
*% =========================================
*% Disclaimer: The above statement indicates
*% that this PPD was written using the Adobe PPD
*% File Format Specification 4.3, but does not
*% intend to imply approval and acceptance by
*% Adobe Systems, Inc.
*% =========================================
*% CopyRight (c) 2004 by
*% Xerox Corporation (R)
*% All Rights Reserved

I suspect, as you probably do, that this printer does not contain a true
Adobe PostScript interpreter. There are other clues. In addition to
the document you mentioned above, the Xerox printer line brochure

<http://www.office.xerox.com/latest/OPBBR-01.PDF>

shows the 3500 as having "Postscript 3", while the 4500 and 5500 have
"Adobe Postscript 3". Yet the website also has a spec page for the 3500

<http://www.office.xerox.com/perl-bin/product.pl?product=3500&page=spec>

that shows "Language support" for "Adobe (r) PostScript(r) Level 3
(tm)". This is interesting, since the trademarked name is just "Adobe
PostScript 3". Adobe dropped "Level" from the name, after "Adobe
PostScript Level 2".

As mentioned in my original post, I tried to get a definitive answer
from Xerox. Two of their reps told me, after checking with their expert
sources within the company, that the 3500 has true Adobe PS 3. But I'm
inclined to believe that these people are poorly either poorly informed,
or that the company is purposefully trying to mislead. The 3500 looks
like a decent product. But, based on this negative experience, I am
more likely to choose a different brand.
 
J

Julian Vrieslander

Chapman Flack said:
Telnet should work. You want to connect to the printer's AppSocket
port, probably 9100:

$ telnet printer.ip.ad.dress 9100

I tried this on an HP printer and it worked.

$ telnet xxx.xx.xx.xx 9100
Trying xxx.xx.xx.xx...
Connected to xxx.xx.xx.xx.
Escape character is '^]'.
executive

This brought up a banner with identification, copyright, and PS version
number. But when I tried it on the Xerox Phaser 3500, it did not work.
The printer responded to pings, and accepted a telnet connection. It
got to the line

Escape character is '^]'.

But there was no response to "executive". No text response on the
terminal. Instead, the 3500 printed out a page with the word
"executive" on it.
 
J

Jim Land

Perhaps it was, but I'd like to see an authoritative source. I know
when it was implemented on the Macintosh, there was a Kermit the Frog
icon, but I remember seeing an acronym in 1981 or 1982. I googled for
it and found some later source code which matches my memory:

"KERMIT STANDS FOR (K)L10 (E)RROR-FREE (R)ECIPROCAL (M)ICROPROCESSOR
(I)NTERCHANGE OVER (T)TY LINES"

Thanks for the information. I've opened a discussion over at Wikipedia,
suggesting that the evidence above doesn't support the Frog/Muppet
statement. It will be interesting to see if anyone can provide such
evidence. If not, a revision of the article will be appropriate.
 
R

Reuti

Julian Vrieslander said:
The manual for the Phaser 3500 mentions "PostScript" many times, but the
phrase "Adobe PostScript" does not appear anywhere. It contains the
text "Adobe (r)", but only in the usual boilerplate listing of
trademarks for all third-party products that may be associated with the
text. I printed some internal test pages, and these do not contain any
mention of Adobe. The PPD file contains a disclaimer that (if anything)
seems to deny any connection to Adobe.

*PPD-Adobe: "4.3"
*% =========================================
*% Disclaimer: The above statement indicates
*% that this PPD was written using the Adobe PPD
*% File Format Specification 4.3, but does not
*% intend to imply approval and acceptance by
*% Adobe Systems, Inc.
*% =========================================
*% CopyRight (c) 2004 by
*% Xerox Corporation (R)
*% All Rights Reserved

I suspect, as you probably do, that this printer does not contain a true
Adobe PostScript interpreter. There are other clues. In addition to
the document you mentioned above, the Xerox printer line brochure

<http://www.office.xerox.com/latest/OPBBR-01.PDF>

shows the 3500 as having "Postscript 3", while the 4500 and 5500 have
"Adobe Postscript 3". Yet the website also has a spec page for the 3500

<http://www.office.xerox.com/perl-bin/product.pl?product=3500&page=spec>

that shows "Language support" for "Adobe (r) PostScript(r) Level 3
(tm)". This is interesting, since the trademarked name is just "Adobe
PostScript 3". Adobe dropped "Level" from the name, after "Adobe
PostScript Level 2".

In the local german version I get only "PostScript Level 3" no word of
Adobe. But on the english one I see your version instead. In fact,
according to pages 9/10 of the PostScript 3 Reference Manual exactly
this is a fine difference, and might be a vioaltion of Adobe's
trademarks.
 
Z

zakezuke

Thanks for the information. I've opened a discussion over at Wikipedia,
suggesting that the evidence above doesn't support the Frog/Muppet
statement. It will be interesting to see if anyone can provide such
evidence. If not, a revision of the article will be appropriate.

Was Kermit designed for communication over tty lines? I know that is
one application for kermit but kermit according to the columbia.edu
website it was designed after telnet... so a logical application would
also be over tcp/ip not just tty. What I don't know is when kermit
supported resume.. a handy feature that ftp didn't always have, which
would sugest applications for both tcp/ip and tty.


http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/kermit.html
 
J

Jim Land

Thanks for the information. I've opened a discussion over at
Wikipedia, suggesting that the evidence above doesn't support the
Frog/Muppet statement. It will be interesting to see if anyone can
provide such evidence. If not, a revision of the article will be
appropriate.

Although Columbia's historical web pages say nothing about the origin of
the name "Kermit" for the protocol, their current web page for Kermit
says:

The Kermit protocol and software are named after Kermit the Frog, star
of the television series, The Muppet Show; the name Kermit is used by
permission of Henson Associates, Inc.
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/kermit.html
 
S

Scott Hemphill

Jim Land said:
Although Columbia's historical web pages say nothing about the origin of
the name "Kermit" for the protocol, their current web page for Kermit
says:

The Kermit protocol and software are named after Kermit the Frog, star
of the television series, The Muppet Show; the name Kermit is used by
permission of Henson Associates, Inc.
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/kermit.html

OK, I guess if Columbia says so. The acronym seemed rather contrived.

Scott
 
S

Scott Hemphill

zakezuke said:
Was Kermit designed for communication over tty lines? I know that is
one application for kermit but kermit according to the columbia.edu
website it was designed after telnet... so a logical application would
also be over tcp/ip not just tty. What I don't know is when kermit
supported resume.. a handy feature that ftp didn't always have, which
would sugest applications for both tcp/ip and tty.

I used a version that didn't have support for anything else. It was typically
used for connecting a DECsystem-20 to 8080-based systems running CP/M. These
early micros had RS-232 serial ports, but ethernet didn't exist for them yet
(as far as I know).

Scott
 

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