Home Scanning for Commerical Use

O

One4All

rafe said:
The truth of the matter is that scanning
technology has gotten better and cheaper,
by leaps and bounds, over the last few
years. Much to the benefit of you and me,
and much to the detriment of Imacon and
the drum scanner manufacturers, most of
whom are now dearly departed.

I'm not too familiar with Imacon, except
that it's a CCD scanner posing as a drum
scanner.

Well, then, there it is. Over the past few days I've read responses,
not only in this thread but those begun by others in this group, and
there seems to be a knee-jerk response that desktop film scanners are
better than flatbeds. Someone mentioned that manufacturers' specs
cannot be trusted, so I assume this applies to the film scanners, as
well as the flatbeds.

If I could only get my Dimage Scan software to find my (SCSI) Minolta
Dimage Scan Multi II on my Mac G5, OS 10.3.8 system, I could could
compare the Minolta with the Epson 4870 prints. I suspect I'd see no
difference; hence, the flatbed wins. (The Minolta is connected to an
Adaptec SCSI card. The system sees both. Anyone have a solution?)

Maybe I need to read some reviews, if any, of comparisons between
desktop flatbeds and film scanners. As you indicate, the technology
bypasses mindsets.
 
D

David J. Littleboy

O

One4All

David said:
With the Nikon 8000 scan upsampled to match the 4870:
http://www.pbase.com/davidjl/image/40078325/original

Holy Moly! Even with upsampling, the 8000 clearly outclasses the 4870!
So, maybe my Dimage Scan Multi II is as capable as the 8000. Now, if I
can only get my Multi Scan software to find the Dimage, which is
connected to my Mac G5 via an Adaptec 29160/29160N SCSI card, I'll be
in business. The G5 sees the Minolta and the Adaptec card, so why can't
the Dimage software find it? Any help?
 
C

CSM1

One4All said:
Holy Moly! Even with upsampling, the 8000 clearly outclasses the 4870!
So, maybe my Dimage Scan Multi II is as capable as the 8000. Now, if I
can only get my Multi Scan software to find the Dimage, which is
connected to my Mac G5 via an Adaptec 29160/29160N SCSI card, I'll be
in business. The G5 sees the Minolta and the Adaptec card, so why can't
the Dimage software find it? Any help?
As another person found out, check the SCSI ID number setting for the Dimage
Scan Multi II and make sure that you do not have a wrong ID number set on
the scanner.

You must have a different ID number for each device on the SCSI chain.
Do not use 0,1 or 7 for the scanners, those ID's are for Hard Drives.

The SCSI host adapter usually uses SCSI ID = 7
That leaves you with ID number 2,3,4,5, and 6 for scanners and other
devices.
 
O

One4All

CSM1 said:
As another person found out, check the SCSI ID number setting for the Dimage
Scan Multi II and make sure that you do not have a wrong ID number set on
the scanner.

I forgot to mention that the Dimage is the only device on the SCSI bus.
It's terminated and had an ID 6; I changed that to ID 5, but no luck.
Full message from DS Multi Utility: "Could not confirm scanner
connection. Verify scanner's connection and SCSI ID#." Again, system
sees both card and Dimage. Same problem when try to open with DS Multi
Plug-in in Elements 2.0.
 
G

Gordon Moat

One4All said:
Thanks for responding. Right now, I can't afford these services. Once I
can establish there is a market for my images, NancyScans, et.al., will
become viable. BTW, NancyScans is very good.

You might want to investigate stock agencies. If you have enough images,
or a particular large selection similar type images, you might be able to
get the interest of a stock agency. Be aware that market is full of many
images from many photographers.
I guess my basic question is, "Can I produce a file from a negative or
transparency, scanned on an Epson 4870 flatbed scanner, that will meet
most commercial needs, short of highest-quality art standards?

If the printed sizes are smaller than full page, or going onto newsprint,
then the Epson should work okay.
Or,
maybe I scan images to be accessed on a Website that, if there is a
buyer, NancyScans, et.al., will be able to produce whatever quality the
buyer wants, given a file scanned at the highest settings on the 4870.

Definitely, that Epson is more than enough to display images on a website.
The idea behind NancyScans is that they handle the scanning, printing,
delivery, and billing, then send you the check. It would be a good idea to
support something like that through your own website. A good website to
preview your images will only help potential image buyers.
Not sure what this means. I really am into archiving my images (family
& commercial). I need to get everything onto CD-R or DVD-R. Then, and
only then, I'll make prints for family, and prints and files for
commercial purposes. I'm beginning to think, "For commercial purposes,
set the 4870 to scan at 48-bit depth and maximum resolution for 300 dpi
output, regardless of file size, and burn these images to DVD-R's."

Okay, a better example: you scanned at maximum quality, and then someone
wants to use that image on newsprint. Newsprint has a high dot gain, and
cannot handle much saturation. The file would need to be converted to work
with newsprint, to avoid muddy colours, bleed through, etc. The time
required to alter the file for that use, is not much different from just
scanning it with the intention of going to newsprint.

This also brings up the idea that a perfect scan will not need adjustments
in PhotoShop. Working with lower end gear, as many of us have done, means
time correcting and optimizing for printing, or time to match the original
film. SilverFast helps a bit with some low end gear, like that Epson, but
you still will not always know how the image will be printed later, unless
you are scanning specifically for a certain printer.

It might seem I stress that a bit. However, in about 90% of images, you
might be just fine sending off an RGB best guess scan. The printing shop,
or the designer at the company requesting the image file, will often
adjust the image to match the printer, and quite often the results are
what you expected. If that approximately 10% error rate bothers you, then
learn a bit more, and be more careful.
This contradicts my earlier thinking:
page.

True. But, I guess to be on the safe side, I ought to scan at the
maximum settings to cover all my bases. One can always come down in
adjusting a file, but very risky up-sampling.

True, resampling upwards never is the best choice, especially when it is
possible to scan at that higher resolution.
When it comes down to it, send the negative/transparency to a scanning
service.

I still use that option for some of my work. Saving your time can be as
important as getting very high quality.
quality.

Point well taken.


Of course, you mean 300 dpi for output resolution.

Everyone uses dpi and ppi somewhat interchangeably, though the
relationship is 1:1. The terms are different, with ppi often used for file
characteristics, and dpi used for printed output. Rather than correct
anyone, I think the terms are interchangeable enough that people
understand when you use either.
large high quality printing, then

No, I don't have 1000 images that I need to buy an Imacon. I'm not a
professional photographer, but one who thinks he's taken some pretty
damn good images over a lifetime, and your advice has helped me a lot
as to some options that can balance my vanity needs with marketplace
realities.

Well, looking into selling your images is a move towards being a
professional. While probably not a full time choice, you could go
semi-pro. Early choices can be made on spending levels. After you get some
sales, and it seems more like a job, then look into what is available.
Best of luck to you.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com>
 
H

Hecate

I forgot to mention that the Dimage is the only device on the SCSI bus.
It's terminated and had an ID 6; I changed that to ID 5, but no luck.
Full message from DS Multi Utility: "Could not confirm scanner
connection. Verify scanner's connection and SCSI ID#." Again, system
sees both card and Dimage. Same problem when try to open with DS Multi
Plug-in in Elements 2.0.

The usual setting for a single scanner is ID 1.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
 
H

Hecate

Of course, you mean 300 dpi for output resolution.
No, he means 300ppi which is a standard image resolution. The dpi
value will depend on the printer.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
 
H

Hecate

Everyone uses dpi and ppi somewhat interchangeably, though the
relationship is 1:1. The terms are different, with ppi often used for file
characteristics, and dpi used for printed output. Rather than correct
anyone, I think the terms are interchangeable enough that people
understand when you use either.
No, they're not which is why different terms are used. PPI is pixels
pre inch and is the resolution attached to the image. D P I is dots
per inch and is the number of dots of ink placed on one square inch of
paper. As dot size bears no relationship to pixels, which are, by
themselves, dimensionless, the two are *not* the same.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
 
O

One4All

Hecate said:
The usual setting for a single scanner is ID 1.

I changed ID to 1 and get same message. Thanks. I hope I get something
from my help request to Konica/Minolta. I suspect my Mac OS 10.3.8 is
not compatible with DS Multi2, but Dimage Scan Multi Pro apparently
ships with the same software & I'm sure that's compatible with OS X.
The only update I could find for DS Multi2 Utility was ver. 2.0.5., and
the same software applies to the Dimage...Pro. At least, as far as I
know.

Is anyone out there with a Dimage...Pro, successfully using DS Multi2,
ver. 2.0.5, on a Mac OS X system? Does anyone know if SilverFast will
run a Dimage Scan Multi II?
 
G

Gordon Moat

Hecate said:
No, they're not which is why different terms are used.

Your reading comprehension sucks. I am discussing terms, and in a practical
usage situation, using either term, almost everyone important will understand
what was intended. I see little point in making a deal about that, unless you
just want to be anal.
 
N

Neil Gould

Recently said:
The usual setting for a single scanner is ID 1.
This is not so. Every scanner that I've purchased over the last 15 years
has been pre-configured with ID 5 or 6. SCSI devices can be assigned any
number *except* that set for the controller card, which is typically 7,
but even that can be changed with some models.

Regards,

Neil
 
H

Hecate

I changed ID to 1 and get same message. Thanks. I hope I get something
from my help request to Konica/Minolta. I suspect my Mac OS 10.3.8 is
not compatible with DS Multi2, but Dimage Scan Multi Pro apparently
ships with the same software & I'm sure that's compatible with OS X.
The only update I could find for DS Multi2 Utility was ver. 2.0.5., and
the same software applies to the Dimage...Pro. At least, as far as I
know.

Damn. I suspect you're right in that it's a Mac OS problem. Do they,
by any chance provide default drivers or is it only Microsoft that
does that?
Is anyone out there with a Dimage...Pro, successfully using DS Multi2,
ver. 2.0.5, on a Mac OS X system? Does anyone know if SilverFast will
run a Dimage Scan Multi II?

Check with Silverfast, but I think they will because they sell
versions specific to a particular machine.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
 
H

Hecate

This is not so. Every scanner that I've purchased over the last 15 years
has been pre-configured with ID 5 or 6. SCSI devices can be assigned any
number *except* that set for the controller card, which is typically 7,
but even that can be changed with some models.
Hi Neil,

You've obviously used different scanners to me then :)

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
 
H

Hecate

Your reading comprehension sucks. I am discussing terms, and in a practical
usage situation, using either term, almost everyone important will understand
what was intended. I see little point in making a deal about that, unless you
just want to be anal.
No, I just believe that you should give people accurate information,
then they won't make the same mistake twice.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
 
O

One4All

One4All said:
Now, if I can only get my Multi Scan software to find the Dimage, which is
connected to my Mac G5 via an Adaptec 29160/29160N SCSI card, I'll be
in business. The G5 sees the Minolta and the Adaptec card, so why can't
the Dimage software find it? Any help?

It's odd to reply to oneself. This is an update. I suspected the Dimage
driver needed updating for my new Mac OS X system. To make a long story
short, I received advice (under another topic), updated the driver, and
I'm in business.
 
N

Neil Gould

Recently said:
Hi Neil,

You've obviously used different scanners to me then :)
Probably... ;-)

My point is that the SCSI spec requires that devices can be set to any ID
value other than that of the controller, and I have yet to run into a
device that doesn't conform to this (that doesn't mean that such devices
don't exist).

Neil
 
R

RSD99

That is true ... but it is possible for the BIOS in the adapter card to be
set up to look for hard disk(s) on channels 0 and 1 ... for which these
channels are normally used/

You might check and make sure that this capability is turned off.
 
G

Gordon Moat

Hecate said:
No, I just believe that you should give people accurate information,
then they won't make the same mistake twice.

I did give accurate information. When the OP questioned my usage, I told him it
was not a problem how he wanted to use the terms, but you chose to bash him
instead. I guess that proves who is anal.
 
H

Hecate

I did give accurate information. When the OP questioned my usage, I told him it
was not a problem how he wanted to use the terms, but you chose to bash him
instead. I guess that proves who is anal.

No, it proves who knows the difference between ppi and dpi.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
 

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